Classleads September 2014

Vaehl

I was going to explain how half these knight ideas aren't really that great but I'm lazy and Jovolo is here now so he can do it.

Caladbolg

Need to be able to dsl with blunt weapons.

So after you stack sensi/clumsy/asthma and then hit slickness your one dsl you get worth of limb damage for 3 dsls counts as 2!

Aelios said:

First, Cleave is 100% useless against any class that can paralyze, web, transfix, prone, or move a room in less than 10 seconds. It's the same thing as devour, and is broadly never expected - so many don't pay attention. Their lack of knowledge doesn't equate to the ability being strong per say, just that they are ill-equipped to defend against it. 

---
If Lack of Knowledge wasn't a huge part of combat to start with no one would ever die to anything ever.   (Which btw is why Dsb sucks so much because everyone knows to tumble on legbreak)

Mizik

CLASSLEAD 143 ENDORSE SOLUTION 2

5258h, 3604m, 25338e, 17735w cexkdb12-

You draw your blade back and plunge it deep into the body of Iakimen impaling him to the hilt.

 --- got aff impale ---

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17735w cekdb12-

(Party): You say, "Iakimen IMPALED."

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17735w cekdb12-

You observe a small amount of blood trickling from minor wounds to Iakimen's body.

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17695w ckdb12-

Your lungs have recovered enough to smoke another mineral or plant. (1.547s)

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17695w ckdb12-

A painted swath across the heavens, the dusk-hued aurora sings its silent song of omen into the 

night.

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17695w ckdb12-

(Party): Kross says, "Traveled to Jhui - In a stand of young oaks."

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17695w ckdb12-

You have recovered equilibrium. (0.725s)

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17695w cekdb12-

[east - Jhui (1)]

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17695w cekdb12-

[east - Merador (1)]

5258h, 3604m, 25308e, 17695w cekdb12-

You are jolted violently southwards by powers unseen.

Base of the Eleusian Gatehouse.

The stars twinkle in the clear night sky. A green-flowered ginseng plant has been planted here. A 

low-slung myrrh bush is here. A red elm tree grows here, its branches gently swaying in the breeze. 

A purple coneflower grows here, its large stalk straining towards the sky. A lobelia wildflower is 

growing here. A low-lying wild ginger plant is growing here. Some vegetables have been planted here. 

A selection of fruits dangles from nearby branches. A pike with the decapitated head of Enfrin, the 

woodcutter of Thera has been erected. A runic totem is planted solidly in the ground. A large oak 

tree stands here, a silent reminder of a legend. An ornately carved cairn stone dominates the area. 

A magnificent sign has been placed carefully in the ground here, bearing a proclamation. A sigil in 

the shape of a small, rectangular monolith is on the ground. Elias the Gatekeeper is here, standing 

watch. A Briar Knight casts a cool gaze over the village. There are 2 woodland rangers here. With 

silent vigil, a gnarled treekin roots to the ground. Suffused with the power of Nature, a veiled 

dryad lingers in the shadows. A bronze floor brazier stands here, with a gentle blue glow pouring 

forth from within. A length of sturdy rope has been dropped here. A pike with the decapitated head 

of Kiba has been erected. A common red admiral butterfly flits about over your head. A forest wyvern 

lurks here, furled in leathery wings. A stone gargoyle flies overhead on leathery, grey wings. Alert 

to her surroundings is an iron-clad black bear. A jarrah bench is here. Speaker Alrena Winterhart, 

Witch of the Wilds is here, vines undulating about her form. Sentinel Raven Kardal Xanatov-Thorngage,

 Ithmian Knight is here. He wields a heavy, dragon-hilted scimitar in his left hand and a heavy, 

dragon-headed battleaxe in his right. Pathfinder Bludthorn Xanatov-Thorngage is here. Blackthorn 

General Rangor Corten, Guardian of Nature is here.

You see exits leading north and up.

Your blindness is cured by a wunjo rune on a totem.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune.

Your attention is grabbed and held by a fascinating butterfly-like rune.

Nostrils flaring and jaws chomping, an iron-clad black bear hauls herself to her feet, lunging 

forward before slamming her deadly front paws onto the ground.

Alaskar

Nerf bloodboil and reflections? Well, dammit, I want Cataclysm to maintain its current effect, but be local area, and then, I want it to extend the range of all vibrations on top of it to the local area, or scale with imbuers, with the max rang at 3 imbuers. So we can have area wide retard and full vibes. Also, it doubles the decay rate of vibes, but protects them from retard. Actually, scrap that. I want a three person imbue, and any enemies in the area die. Maybe some cool, area-wide channeling message. Yeah. By damn since Magi is so OP, let's make them -really- OP.

Let's be real. If I'm spamming bloodboil take a guess at what I'm -not- doing. Two afflictions cured per 3 seconds. I think an affliction class can still do what they need to do, but perhaps some creativity is in order. 

Reflections? Same thing. When I turn on "God Mode" I turn off "offense mode." It basically means neither of us can kill each other. Sounds good to me. How about we nerf absolve and whatnot, as I can't even cast a holocaust globe without dropping to almost 50% mana.

I mean, damn. Magi have to trans weaponry to have a reliable way to kill someone, as anyone past a certain health threshold can just tank us until retard eat all the vibes, then they heal up and start killing us. 

tl;dr Leave my damn class alone. Until I get an insta-kill, I want my damn God Mode.

/rant.

But seriously, why Magi? IT's not like Magi really dominates top tier fighting. I think the sigil war crap and a few other things should be addressed before we just nerf Magi into little impotent e-peens of range and malice with holocaust globes.

Atalkez

Fight an artie mage that staffcasts for 40%, vibes also doing damage, proning into forest damage coupled with ret and 65% storm hammers. 

With reflect in its' current state you can shut down any offense while maintaining yours through vibes. Reflect, they hit, reflect, they hit but get proned into forest with vibes, you hammer for a 75% shot and now they run or die. No one ever said you need to reflect 10 times for it to be OP. A serpent dstabbing twice per reflect is balanced since their dstab gets eaten entirely unlike knight.

Jukilian

Would like some form of evidence to back up things like 40% staff cast and 65% storm hammer.

I might grab a test subject later and see what it's like for myself.

Even if hammer does as much as you say, it has a long EQ time and drains heavy on mana (1200 without robes) and willpower (200? Can't remember for sure).

Had an unartied Magi staff and then hammer me, and the damage difference there was 10% more from the hammer. I wouldn't think it would grow that much bigger with more arties, but I don't know. Haven't tested yet.

Austere

If hammer is doing 65%, please teach me your ways.  Mine does 30 to 33% on no resistance rings and I am pretty darn artied.  Numbers definitely exaggerated. ..Not saying artied mage isn't very solid, but you should have to invest the same amount in defense that I have offense to be able to tank me.  If you haven't,  I don't think you have room to complain.  Sorry. ...

Jacen

5318h, 3597m, 27630e, 17393w cekb-

Mithridates points a wooden staff bearing the standard of Targossas at you and you scream in pain as your skin begins to freeze and crack.

3680h, 3597m, 27630e, 17393w cekb-

max health is 5752.

Its not 40%, but it is 29% with a TF and a prismatic ring.

Jukilian

Well Iakimen's Kai choke was hitting me for 1.6k with about 5150 max health. Although it does require Kai, at least.

Learn some mini skills?

Should let me test mine on you, Jacen. Mith probably has more int than me though.

Edit: I also would like in on this 65% hammer secret. >_>

Bukariin

Jukilian said:

Well Iakimen's Kai choke was hitting me for 1.6k with about 5150 max health. Although it does require Kai, at least.

And, uh, you have to not be holding breath.

Jukilian

Bukariin said:

Jukilian said:

Well Iakimen's Kai choke was hitting me for 1.6k with about 5150 max health. Although it does require Kai, at least.

And, uh, you have to not be holding breath.

Hard when another two people are beating on me but yeah. I just felt like throwing that in. It is a lot more countable than staff cast, for sure.

Jacen

Oh yeah, that was a frost cast, and I'm inept frost. My bad.

Austere

Jacen said:

5318h, 3597m, 27630e, 17393w cekb-

Mithridates points a wooden staff bearing the standard of Targossas at you and you scream in pain as your skin begins to freeze and crack.

3680h, 3597m, 27630e, 17393w cekb-

max health is 5752.

Its not 40%, but it is 29% with a TF and a prismatic ring.

29% is managable. @Mithridates‌ has level three arties I assume.  If you take our damage,  what is the trade off? Because you have a cheap artie ring and a TF does not mean you should be able to tank him when he has 3600 cr worth of offensive arties. Play your class.  Prep and run and you can beat that.  The only class that I think can complain is serpent. No damage to really abuse a holocaust and all momentum based so prep and run isn't an option.  

Edit: sounds jerky. I am sorry. Doesn't change the facts.  Staff cast is not a prep attack.  Once you leave, we have nothing to show but less wp. 

Jovolo

This is what it's like from the other end of the spectrum. With Scales up. (10% resistance)

3029h|99%h 3630m|100%m 100%e 100%w -- 0.0% edb-[prone]03:17:08:101

Mithridates's aura of weapons rebounding disappears.

Mithridates points a wooden staff bearing the standard of Targossas at you and you scream in pain as 

your skin begins to freeze and crack.

1807h|59%h 3630m|100%m 100%e 100%w -- 0.0% edb-[prone]03:17:08:118

Austere

Resistance rings? Caloric? Trans frost? Ring of super magi tank? 

Jovolo

other end of the spectrum

I have resist rings, but don't have trans frost or ring of magi. I'm just giving the POV of someone with class skills and level 77. That is what it's like to face a level three Magi. Much harder to deal with than level three Monk, Knight, Sylvan etc. I don't have much of a problem killing Lothiac in 1v1, but I can't even touch most scrub Magi before I have to leave the room. I wouldn't have much of a problem to this if they weren't also invulnerable to afflictions, which is the issue. 

There's no need to worry that much though. I think really, all that will happen is bloodboil reeceiving a cooldown similar to Dragon Heal and reflections getting a slight rework or just being slowed down.

Cooper

Imagine of Jhui went Magi with eq gem/staff.

40% every like 2s lol.

Santar

Atalkez said:

Fight an artie mage that staffcasts for 40%, vibes also doing damage, proning into forest damage coupled with ret and 65% storm hammers. 

With reflect in its' current state you can shut down any offense while maintaining yours through vibes. Reflect, they hit, reflect, they hit but get proned into forest with vibes, you hammer for a 75% shot and now they run or die. No one ever said you need to reflect 10 times for it to be OP. A serpent dstabbing twice per reflect is balanced since their dstab gets eaten entirely unlike knight.

Just no. Dstabbing at full speed, with my snake pet attacking, and my artefact pet attacking, I still can't hit a magi that's reflecting theirself. That's 3 different reflect breakers going, and they out pace it.

Jukilian

IIRC, Ring of the Magus only adds damage resistance against the Magic damage type, not all attacks of a magical nature.

Ring of the Magus will only reduce damage from the acid (dissolution) staffcast.

Staffcast comes in four different damage-types that the Magi can use at will:
Electric, Magic, Fire, Cold

Atalkez

Santar said:

Atalkez said:

Fight an artie mage that staffcasts for 40%, vibes also doing damage, proning into forest damage coupled with ret and 65% storm hammers. 

With reflect in its' current state you can shut down any offense while maintaining yours through vibes. Reflect, they hit, reflect, they hit but get proned into forest with vibes, you hammer for a 75% shot and now they run or die. No one ever said you need to reflect 10 times for it to be OP. A serpent dstabbing twice per reflect is balanced since their dstab gets eaten entirely unlike knight.

Just no. Dstabbing at full speed, with my snake pet attacking, and my artefact pet attacking, I still can't hit a magi that's reflecting theirself. That's 3 different reflect breakers going, and they out pace it.

I was referring to the class lead putting reflect EQ at 3s. Assuming dstab of 1.4 (what is Thoth?) with afflictions you can get 2 stabs before they could reflect,  yes?

Santar

You can't dstab at 1.4 lol. It's like 1.6-1.7 if you max out your stats and go fully artied.

Austere

Reflections in their current state are obnoxious.  If they are downgraded, though, holocaust should be made unforcible.  Too easy to force right before a kill setup, and reflection removal will only leave shield to hide behind.  Bloodboil, I don't personally see a problem with,  but I am a Magi, so I am biased. 

Mizik

Alaskar said:

Nerf bloodboil and reflections? Well, dammit, I want Cataclysm to maintain its current effect, but be local area, and then, I want it to extend the range of all vibrations on top of it to the local area, or scale with imbuers, with the max rang at 3 imbuers. So we can have area wide retard and full vibes. Also, it doubles the decay rate of vibes, but protects them from retard. Actually, scrap that. I want a three person imbue, and any enemies in the area die. Maybe some cool, area-wide channeling message. Yeah. By damn since Magi is so OP, let's make them -really- OP.

Let's be real. If I'm spamming bloodboil take a guess at what I'm -not- doing. Two afflictions cured per 3 seconds. I think an affliction class can still do what they need to do, but perhaps some creativity is in order. 

Reflections? Same thing. When I turn on "God Mode" I turn off "offense mode." It basically means neither of us can kill each other. Sounds good to me. How about we nerf absolve and whatnot, as I can't even cast a holocaust globe without dropping to almost 50% mana.

I mean, damn. Magi have to trans weaponry to have a reliable way to kill someone, as anyone past a certain health threshold can just tank us until retard eat all the vibes, then they heal up and start killing us. 

tl;dr Leave my damn class alone. Until I get an insta-kill, I want my damn God Mode.

/rant.

But seriously, why Magi? IT's not like Magi really dominates top tier fighting. I think the sigil war crap and a few other things should be addressed before we just nerf Magi into little impotent e-peens of range and malice with holocaust globes.

Staff Strike              Thornrend
Bloodboil                Bloodboil
Staff Strike              Thornrend
Bloodboil                Bloodboil
Staff Strike              Thornrend
Bloodboil                Bloodboil

Win!

Aegoth

Jovolo said:

other end of the spectrum

I have resist rings, but don't have trans frost or ring of magi. I'm just giving the POV of someone with class skills and level 77. That is what it's like to face a level three Magi. Much harder to deal with than level three Monk, Knight, Sylvan etc. I don't have much of a problem killing Lothiac in 1v1, but I can't even touch most scrub Magi before I have to leave the room. I wouldn't have much of a problem to this if they weren't also invulnerable to afflictions, which is the issue. 

There's no need to worry that much though. I think really, all that will happen is bloodboil reeceiving a cooldown similar to Dragon Heal and reflections getting a slight rework or just being slowed down.

Sorry, I have to laugh at this. Sylvans are far above and beyond any magi in terms of offense, defence and utility. In fact, it's joked about that Sylvans are Magi on steroids. Artied Sylvans outclass artied magi any day of the week. Their damage output is much faster and they happen to do more damage than magi. Considering that Sylvans have the EXACT SAME DEFENCES AGAINST SERPENTS THAT YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT, Lothiac is either off his game, or you're just lying to fuel your magi hate.

Alrena

Sylvans are not the same as Magi. Stop comparing them. Bloodboil/reflect are as good for Sylvans as they are for Magi, which is what is being discussed, so any other differences between magi/sylvan are not relevant. 

I personally only need to bloodboil to break/avoid locks, or darkshade ginseng stack. For the latter, I first fly and flee anyway. Would not mind if it had a cooldown. As for reflections, I do agree they can be slowed down a bit. 3 seconds miiight make them useless, as that's shield balance (or fly, or sandling) already and shield > reflections in many ways. Maybe slow it down to 2 seconds (with QW and diadem)?

Vaehl

Wtf did I just read.

Jovolo

Aegoth said:

Jovolo said:

other end of the spectrum

I have resist rings, but don't have trans frost or ring of magi. I'm just giving the POV of someone with class skills and level 77. That is what it's like to face a level three Magi. Much harder to deal with than level three Monk, Knight, Sylvan etc. I don't have much of a problem killing Lothiac in 1v1, but I can't even touch most scrub Magi before I have to leave the room. I wouldn't have much of a problem to this if they weren't also invulnerable to afflictions, which is the issue. 

There's no need to worry that much though. I think really, all that will happen is bloodboil reeceiving a cooldown similar to Dragon Heal and reflections getting a slight rework or just being slowed down.

Sorry, I have to laugh at this. Sylvans are far above and beyond any magi in terms of offense, defence and utility. In fact, it's joked about that Sylvans are Magi on steroids. Artied Sylvans outclass artied magi any day of the week. Their damage output is much faster and they happen to do more damage than magi. Considering that Sylvans have the EXACT SAME DEFENCES AGAINST SERPENTS THAT YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT, Lothiac is either off his game, or you're just lying to fuel your magi hate.

Obviously in the context of the situation I was talking about Lothiac's offence vs an artied Magi's offence. Notice how I said "I can't even touch most scrub Magi before I have to leave the room. I wouldn't have much of a problem with this if they weren't also invulnerable to afflictions, which is the issue." It isn't bloodboil and reflect that's making me have to leave every five seconds, it's Magi's insane dps, which actually is higher than a Sylvan's lol.

That he dropped the ball defensively and didn't turn on the aptly named "God Mode" of bloodboil and reflections has nothing to do with what I was saying.

Hasar

Outlier magi in full vibes does more damage than artied sylvan. Ofc if a magi isn't in full vibes the sylvan will do more. So yes, sylvan is more mobile; but magi being a stationary ish class is part of the deal. That's why I prefer dragon in most fights since magi is not very mobile.

Alaskar

I think our god mode stuff is a fair trade for having the least portable offense in the damn game. 

Also, I want holocaust to be a channeled ability that increases the amount of damage done the longer it's channeled. Because I hate the idea of killing with behead.

Of course, as it stands, any time I drop one people leave the room anyways. As for the balancing aspect of Magi, are we balancing apples to apples or apples to oranges? Of course a level 77 something can't stand in the room with Mithridates. A knight with soulpiercers can do some crazy damage too. Or Dramata and her battleaxe. It's not an immunity to afflictions that's forcing you from the room, as if I'm just curing out of afflictions or reflecting, I can't really fight back. At high health, Magi fight goes something like this

staffstrike-reflect-staffstrike-reflect-staffsrike-reflect-retard-staffstrike- watch as they survive 5 staffcasts until my vibes decay and then start abusing me in retard.

I lose a vibe every 5 seconds, so if I can't kill them in a few staffcasts, they're going to live. Also, as each vibe dies, hindering due to vibe decreases, so their chances of escape increase. If we get nerfs, I expect decent buffs. 

Hasar

Eh....there are a lot of things you aren't doing that you could be doing. If your main strategy in retardation is dor staffcast, I wouldn't really complain about them not dying...

There's like a whole other level you're missing out on. Explore your skills and add in weaponry and a torc if you can afford it. Or try to be a bit more creative, etc.