Classleads September 2014

Santar

I proposed a very balanced change to flood vs. Runelore a while back.

Make a ground rune, that when sketched on the ground in a good, stays there for the normal amount of time and prevents flooding.  It'd use up 1 of your 2 ground runes. Pretty balanced.

Hod

Santar said:

I proposed a very balanced change to flood vs. Runelore a while back.

Make a ground rune, that when sketched on the ground in a good, stays there for the normal amount of time and prevents flooding.  It'd use up 1 of your 2 ground runes. Pretty balanced.

Except you have to know where they are going to flood before they do it. A common place that gets flooded is Mhaldor's defendable, you can always keep a rune there but it's barely going to have an effect since you won't know it's being smudged, and by the time you realize people are about to raid they've already got it flooded. Now, let it be put on a totem, and I think it would be balanced.

Santar

Nah, I intended for it to be able to sketched in water.

I don't care about group vs. group. Flooding vs. runes is pretty balanced for groups. It's 1v1 that's rigged when runelore users can't use their runes at all.

Jhui

Hod squirming for some more beckon into guard kills, I can tell.  Countering beckon at defendable is an atrocious unintended effect of flood.

Xer

Pft, counter countering flood stopping beckon at defendable is easy. Cahin made it work that one time, remember? :P

Jhui

solo-raids gone wrong.  RIP water weird.

Saeva

So we're looking at proposed nerfs to flood, bloodboil, NoP, reflections... Where are all of these OP magi that are apparently taking a dump on everyone? I am very fascinated.

Achimrst

Austere said:

Would prefer it if it consumes a lot of balance,  similar to veil glance.  Also,  monks already have a lot going for them in a raid scenario,  why not give it to someone else.  I dunno who,  though.   

Shaman >.>

Kaden

Saeva said:

So we're looking at proposed nerfs to flood, bloodboil, NoP, reflections... Where are all of these OP magi that are apparently taking a dump on everyone? I am very fascinated.

What are you talking about? Everyone knows staffstrike earth is just as hindering as an epteth/epseth DSL. Magi prep so easy. :P

Santar

I think you're overreacting a bit. All those abilities won't be nerfed.

Runelore definitely deserves to be able to have some form of use against flood, and it's not just magi that have access to it. This isn't even a real nerf. This is balancing a single matchup. Reflection probably needs some kind of nerf as well. Reflection literally makes you permanently immune to all forms of harm vs. a large number of classes just by doing dorepeat cast reflection at me.

NoP is fine. Bloodboil is borderline overpowered. Might take a light hit.

Vaehl

Like I said earlier the average fighter of most classes, and sometimes even the best fighters, are not very close to the potential of the class. You don't see OP magi destroying people, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. You don't see Jesters running around destroying everybody 1v1 but they do have a couple unstoppable instantkills that work on almost every class. You don't see infernals running around vivisecting everybody 1v1, but they are in a very strong position right now. Etc. 

As well, these changes mostly fix 1v1. Something you don't really see too much of anymore.

Austere

Achimrst said:

Austere said:

Would prefer it if it consumes a lot of balance,  similar to veil glance.  Also,  monks already have a lot going for them in a raid scenario,  why not give it to someone else.  I dunno who,  though.   

Shaman >.>

While I really like the idea of giving shaman more utility,  it is definitely not neutral enough to give this.  Imagine all the Targossas tears. No thanks.  I vote serpent, so all the veiled serpents that bought veils for locating can sell them off. Yay for local able serpents. 

Achimrst

Austere said:

Achimrst said:

Austere said:

Would prefer it if it consumes a lot of balance,  similar to veil glance.  Also,  monks already have a lot going for them in a raid scenario,  why not give it to someone else.  I dunno who,  though.   

Shaman >.>

While I really like the idea of giving shaman more utility,  it is definitely not neutral enough to give this.  Imagine all the Targossas tears. No thanks.  I vote serpent, so all the veiled serpents that bought veils for locating can sell them off. Yay for local able serpents. 

Shaman aren't accepted by Targ for their own reasons, they reap what they sow!

Jacen

Austere said:

Would prefer it if it consumes a lot of balance,  similar to veil glance.  Also,  monks already have a lot going for them in a raid scenario,  why not give it to someone else.  I dunno who,  though.   

Went with monk because mind lock is a prereq to mind glance and it won't always be reliable, since mind locks break periodically. Glance does have a reasonable balance time (2.2 secs off the top of my head). Could double balance time if monk is unveiled and target is veiled?

Could give it to any class as a windup ability I guess, I just thought the mind lock requirement worked best because it's not always available.

Austere

Targossas needs this just as much as the other cities,  with the exception of Ashtan. We have a shit ton of veils. 

Achimrst

I honestly thought the point of a veil was to be hidden for things like this problem, if veil glance works dragons are definitely neutral.

Xer

You can't veilglance veiled people without a veil yourself.

Valaria

Exelethril said:

Classlead for Runelore : Flooding or staying in water rooms mitigates the Runelore skillset. Thurisaz isn't a viable counter and a Scepter of Aqueous Mastery has been discontinued.

Solution : Make runes sketch-able in flooded rooms to bring Runelore in line with Rites/Necromancy.

Y/N?

Give runelorist a branding-like fortification ability in order to be able to sketch the runes in the flooding/water rooms.

Kaden

Santar said:

I think you're overreacting a bit. All those abilities won't be nerfed.

Runelore definitely deserves to be able to have some form of use against flood, and it's not just magi that have access to it. This isn't even a real nerf. This is balancing a single matchup. Reflection probably needs some kind of nerf as well. Reflection literally makes you permanently immune to all forms of harm vs. a large number of classes just by doing dorepeat cast reflection at me.

NoP is fine. Bloodboil is borderline overpowered. Might take a light hit.

Maybe overreacting a little, though we do need more classleads that deals with some problems as a magi (and follow through on classleads that were already passed in the past but just weren't implemented).

That said I do agree that most of those will probably not get nerfed though I'm a bit curious about the flood part because thurisaz already stops it if it goes through first and I'm really curious if that's really not enough or if people just haven't fully explored the possibility with that fix yet. And there are ways around flooding since flood doesn't wipe runes that have already been set down to begin with, only future runes and that positioning and changing rooms can theoretically also address these problems.

Reflections are pretty powerful but I'm also hesitant to see that nerfed pretty bad because as I've noted, magi doesn't seem to be all that great in hindering and can easily be overwhelmed by classes with faster recovery times. Not to mention the group utility that I personally enjoy since it can also help allies who would otherwise just get loldamaged out.

Saeva

Vaehl said:

Like I said earlier the average fighter of most classes, and sometimes even the best fighters, are not very close to the potential of the class. You don't see OP magi destroying people, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. You don't see Jesters running around destroying everybody 1v1 but they do have a couple unstoppable instantkills that work on almost every class. You don't see infernals running around vivisecting everybody 1v1, but they are in a very strong position right now. Etc. 

As well, these changes mostly fix 1v1. Something you don't really see too much of anymore.

I understand scaling potential. But SOME people in particular seem totally unconcerned by some of the classes that are insane (Sylvan is like magi2.0 come on, they have mostly everything magi have and they have it better, stronger and more defensively. The hard part is you gotta go smell Rangor every day if you wanna play it   - Let's not even start on monk) and it just blows my mind how many proposed nerfs I've heard. Of course I"m not saying they are all being applied. I just sigh as I watch on is all.

Kaden

Which is to say that magi should probably start writing classleads already. Hop to it @Hasar, @Aegoth, @Saeva!

Austere

Give runelorist an artie to allow sketching in flooded room(waterproof rune stick).  Then give flooders an arties to nullify(bucket of disappearing ink soak).  

Kaden

Can we also get that bucket to melt runes off their body if we threw it at them?

Better yet! Make it so runelorist melt Wizard of Oz style!

Achimrst

Kaden said:

Can we also get that bucket to melt runes off their body if we threw it at them?

Better yet! Make it so runelorist melt Wizard of Oz style!

Even though I would insta-die, I could still go for this.

Jovolo

Yes Miz, but it isn't one or the other. That's why I suggested a counter play to flood, rather than making the ability obsolete altogether. It's just my opinion, but I don't support standardising offence vs all classes. Having dynamics and being forced to adjust to certain counter measures such as flood is a ood thing.

Austere

Why don't we,  instead of balancing runelore in flood,  just give magi an unstoppable instant kill against runers. Can give it a two second windup.. so it is fair and all. 

Hod

Easy way to balance classes:

No arties, Serpent only, North of New Thera.

Jarrod

Why not just make Flood stop Thurisaz from out of the room and allow all runes to be sketched in flooded runes?

Keeps the ranged parity of flood vs thurisaz in raids and makes flood pointless vs runes in 1v1 as an in-room defensive tactic, which is fine.

Iocun

Strata said:

Aktillum said:

@Strata yus but does asp work with dstab or just single jabs?

Just think... you're in retardation and "If there are no venoms, asp will take effect." And yes, it's 2 Asps on 1 dstab.

If you're in retardation and going to stab, you'd better have a pre-envenomed dirk. If a magi dies to just random affs in retard, he isn't even worth raising a dirk against. He'll probably manage to trip over his own feet and fall on a crocodile who knows monkey kung fu. And then he gets eaten by a toad.

Halios

Can you turn asp on/off? Would suck to ask for Kai and get a shit ton of afflictions.