Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Eleusis vs Mhaldor, the Good and the Bad!

1246721

Comments

  • HaliosHalios Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Santar said:

    How long until one side cries time zone abuse?

    Alrena said:
    Melodie said:

    Already very very tired of this. Unable to go anywhere except guards, and then can't even go there when an in-city raid starts. I spent over 90% of my time defending from exterms, from random ganking on my character, from defending in general, in and out of city. Experience doesn't mean crap, but I've lost almost all of my time, and definitely all of my fun. Quitting army isn't really a viable option with the atmosphere and how things work. There's pretty much no rest and no restraint. I can't even harvest except maybe 5-8am or so, and I'm only up then because it's too hot to sleep until about then.

    I'm probably going to have to play other games because this is seriously pushing on my anger and just dreadfully not fun at all, and the way it was started is just the cherry on top of the shit sundae.

    After extensive exterms, Mhaldor raids. Two tanks dismantled, ok. People qq or afk, they had enough fighting.

    Mhaldor exterms more. Maybe they'll quit if they realize we have nobody to respond.

    ...

    Nope.

    AegothTohranWessux
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,549 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    The Mhaldorian attitude in this thread makes me miss the Mhaldor-Targossas war. And you don't even have Bonko now!

    Good grief.


    Rangor
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited August 2014

    TBH, @Micositu did prove he doesn't give a damn about Mhaldorians dying when he led our (3) guards into his own group. (not knowing 10 more were in range). :wink: 

    Also, @Rangor is right that we don't -have- to care about exterms ooc. But it's rather hard to justify completely ignoring exterms all the time when your entire oath is about protecting Nature first and foremost. If you're in Oakstone, you also get spammed with the exterm message every single time. I kinda wish Mhaldor would have similar obligations to the shrines of Sartan, so we'd have some way of striking back, but it is what it is. Nerf exterms plz!

    image
    Achimrst
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    The irritating part here, is that Eleusians have no in-game mechanism for a win at all. The best we can hope for, is some kind of stale-mate or a bigger RP event. I personally hope that this is all related to Mhaldor's imminent change around houses.

    @Ravien I don't know what kind of background motivation you have for this declaration of war, but I hope you pay attention, because you might understand why it is that your predecessors did not take this route, and why it is that some of your fellow citizens are thoroughly miffed at you.

    We all like the idea of a war between Eleusis and Mhaldor, it's been a long time coming, but it never happened because Eleusis simply has no real way to win.

    This is me talking by the way, not Athelas, so please don't take this in game.

    Yes, EVERYTHING BELOW is completely OOC.

    1. The sheer amount of ground Eleusis has to cover in order to fight a war with Mhaldor, makes a win logistically impossible. It takes one Necromancy user to exterminate a room, and that extermination is a direct assault on Eleusis. Meaning that we can be attacked from anywhere at any time. Other cities have minimal entrances and can defend their assets. We can't! We have zero mechanisms for this! Our forces can easily be divided and ripped to shreds. YES! It's a cold hard fact, that with little effort, Mhaldor as a city does have the mechanism to exterminate every single forest area in the game, and due to game mechanics being what it is, Eleusis can do jack about it. Especially since Oakstone suffered a complete nerf.

    2. If we want to attack Mhaldor, we have to move into the actual city, where all their guards are waiting. If Mhaldor wants to attack Eleusis, all they have to do is to walk into the Black Forest, where they have only a rather unfriendly boar to deal with, and start exterminating.

    3. It costs nothing to do an extermination, while it costs the individual doing a rejuvenation at least 300gp in ice, if they can find the ice required! With hardly any effort, Mhaldor has a mechanism for a war of attrition right there. It does not take a genius to figure this out! If I was a Mhaldorian, I'd insist that every person capable of doing an extermination, do nothing else but exterminate, until either the gold or the ice runs out. Such an incredibly simple mechanism for winning, can not be ignored by any general worth his/her salt. On the second month of this war, I rejuvenated over 40 rooms. Do the math! That's more than two credits worth of damage to me, not just Athelas as a character! Not to mention the sheer amount of time it takes to do the replanting afterwards.

    i.e. If you want to have any kind of a fair fight with Mhaldor, their ability to exterminate would need a nerf that levels the playing field.

    Seriously @Ravien, if there was a way for Eleusis to win this in-game, that did not involve some form of divine intervention/event, we'd have been at war with Mhaldor centuries ago, and we'd have had a lot of fun with it as well.

    i.e. If there was a fun, winnable mechanism for us to actually play this kind of thing, it would have been done, several times over. I don't know what you were thinking when you made this decision, but I honestly feel that you either did not think clearly on this, or you are being influenced by an external factors. From my perspective, it does appear that there is some kind of admin/non-ic influence playing at this. There's been a lot of warmongering happening inside Eleusis, and I simply can not get myself to believe that it is due to the citizenry, as the citizens have pushed back on the idea repeatedly. It's the only logical explanation I have for your sudden decision, especially since it happened without any consultation of citizens or other Leath-ri, that I could find out about.
    AegothShirszaeAluciana
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    aaaand eleusis also wins the second rant of the thread reward.  :) This' ain't going our way. Exterms too stronk.

    image
    Praxides
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    @Rangor That's not a rant, honestly. It's just the reality of the game. An IC war with Mhaldor is very desirable, but OOC game mechanics make it infeasible.

    Tohran
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    Rangor said:
    aaaand eleusis also wins the second rant of the thread reward.  :) This' ain't going our way. Exterms too stronk.

    @Rangor please, these aren't rants. Mhaldor is just getting started, give it a few more days and we'll get the forums flooded with Eleusian tears.  :'(

    image
    RangorPraxidesIsaiahAluciana
  • HaliosHalios Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Since when do people only fight wars they can win?

    Isaiah
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    @Rangor Can you honestly tell me that you enjoy playing a game, where you factually have 0% chance of wining? We aren't talking about 10:1 or even 50:1 ods here, the fact is that there simply is no IC way for Eleusis to win this, without some kind of divine intervention. There never has been!

    So what's the point of playing, if you are only playing to satisfy someone else's desire to rub it in your face, that you can't actually do anything about them winning?

    The moment Ravien declared this war, we handed Mhaldor all the RP reason they need to rip Eleusis to threads, we all know it, we all know exactly where this is going.

    THIS IS NOT A RANT! IT IS A STATEMENT OF FACT!

    The game itself, does not provide Eleusis with any player driven avenue of victory! If there was such a mechanism, wars between Mhaldor and Eleusis would be far more frequent and probably a heck of a lot of fun.

    AegothAlucianaAchimrst
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,372 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    poor Ravien.

    I feel like some people play achaea for the wrong 21 hours of the day and if they played in a different 21 hours they would experience less rubbish.

    If i am not having fun, Achaea will still be here tomorrow is what I tell myself, though i completely  understand having nothing to do except Achaea, in which case there is nothing except despair and death for you.

    Truth is, in a business, things will always be catered for the majority of investers to be happy while the minority have to just take it or leave. Experience tells me that catering for the minority is a fatal choice. 

    Thus from this perspective, when i know that something is going to make me sad, i leave and consider pants.


    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    TreyPraxidesJhaeliAlcinae
  • HaliosHalios Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Mishgul said:

    poor Ravien.

    I feel like some people play achaea for the wrong 21 hours of the day and if they played in a different 21 hours they would experience less rubbish.

    If i am not having fun, Achaea will still be here tomorrow is what I tell myself, though i completely  understand having nothing to do except Achaea, in which case there is nothing except despair and death for you.

    Truth is, in a business, things will always be catered for the majority of investers to be happy while the minority have to just take it or leave. Experience tells me that catering for the minority is a fatal choice. 

    Thus from this perspective, when i know that something is going to make me sad, i leave and consider pants.


    I fucking love you. Breakfast burritos?

    Mishgul
  • HaliosHalios Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Rangor said:
    Athelas said:

    @Rangor Can you honestly tell me that you enjoy playing a game, where you factually have 0% chance of wining? We aren't talking about 10:1 or even 50:1 ods here, the fact is that there simply is no IC way for Eleusis to win this, without some kind of divine intervention. There never has been!

    So what's the point of playing, if you are only playing to satisfy someone else's desire to rub it in your face, that you can't actually do anything about them winning?

    The moment Ravien declared this war, we handed Mhaldor all the RP reason they need to rip Eleusis to threads, we all know it, we all know exactly where this is going.

    THIS IS NOT A RANT! IT IS A STATEMENT OF FACT!

    The game itself, does not provide Eleusis with any player driven avenue of victory! If there was such a mechanism, wars between Mhaldor and Eleusis would be far more frequent and probably a heck of a lot of fun.

    I don't care about winning the war. I play to have fun, fighting and leading groups is fun for me. It also helps that we usually win the skirmishes and raids we do on my timezone.


    I know the mechanics are against us. Just have to accept that and play the game anyways. Once you stop caring about deaths and winning, and just rp'ing it out however badly/positively it goes you'll have a lot more fun.

    ^ what buddy Rangor said.

    Achaea isn't about winning/losing, it's about experiences.  The only way you lose is if you worry so much about the OOC aspects of it and the politics that you forget you're playing a game and stop having fun.

    Just feels like you're looking for something to bitch about rather than something to enjoy Athelas.

    PraxidesTharvis
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,798 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Athelas said:

    @Rangor Can you honestly tell me that you enjoy playing a game, where you factually have 0% chance of wining? We aren't talking about 10:1 or even 50:1 ods here, the fact is that there simply is no IC way for Eleusis to win this, without some kind of divine intervention. There never has been!

    So what's the point of playing, if you are only playing to satisfy someone else's desire to rub it in your face, that you can't actually do anything about them winning?

    The moment Ravien declared this war, we handed Mhaldor all the RP reason they need to rip Eleusis to threads, we all know it, we all know exactly where this is going.

    THIS IS NOT A RANT! IT IS A STATEMENT OF FACT!

    The game itself, does not provide Eleusis with any player driven avenue of victory! If there was such a mechanism, wars between Mhaldor and Eleusis would be far more frequent and probably a heck of a lot of fun.

    Are you fucking high?

    HaliosShirszaeMycen
  • HaliosHalios Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Trey said:
    Athelas said:

    @Rangor Can you honestly tell me that you enjoy playing a game, where you factually have 0% chance of wining? We aren't talking about 10:1 or even 50:1 ods here, the fact is that there simply is no IC way for Eleusis to win this, without some kind of divine intervention. There never has been!

    So what's the point of playing, if you are only playing to satisfy someone else's desire to rub it in your face, that you can't actually do anything about them winning?

    The moment Ravien declared this war, we handed Mhaldor all the RP reason they need to rip Eleusis to threads, we all know it, we all know exactly where this is going.

    THIS IS NOT A RANT! IT IS A STATEMENT OF FACT!

    The game itself, does not provide Eleusis with any player driven avenue of victory! If there was such a mechanism, wars between Mhaldor and Eleusis would be far more frequent and probably a heck of a lot of fun.

    Are you fucking high?

    Or this.

  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    You are very unique then @Rangor, because most people want at least the illusion of being able to win, before they will play a game.

    In this instance, we don't even have that.

    AegothAlucianaTohran
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited August 2014

    @Trey @Halios I don't quite understand how my comments are seen as rants or bitching. Can either of you argue that Eleusis actually has a mechanism for winning this? If so, I'd love to hear it.

  • HaliosHalios Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Halios said:
    Athelas said:

    @Trey @Halios I don't quite understand how my comments are seen as rants or bitching. Can either of you argue that Eleusis actually has a mechanism for winning this? If so, I'd love to hear it.

    Achaea is not a win/lose game. 

    .

  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Good: Was able to bash Sidhe and Unsidhe at 9pm GMT unmolested

    Bad: Was able to bash Sidhe and Unsidhe at 9pm GMT unmolested


    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    ShirszaeAlcinaeWessux
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Halios said:

    Achaea is not a win/lose game. 

    The question is not wither or not Achaea is a win/lose game.

    The question is:
    Can you present any in-game IC, player driven mechanism, through which Eleusis can win this war? If so, please do!
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,798 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Athelas said:
    Halios said:

    Achaea is not a win/lose game. 

    The question is not wither or not Achaea is a win/lose game.

    The question is:
    Can you present any in-game IC, player driven mechanism, through which Eleusis can win this war? If so, please do!

    Stomp colon. End stop.

  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Athelas said:

    You are very unique then @Rangor, because most people want at least the illusion of being able to win, before they will play a game.

    In this instance, we don't even have that.

    You'll find that most people that have stuck with Achaea for as long as I have tend to share this mentality.

    image
    SherazadTharvisJhaeliMycen
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Athelas said:
    Halios said:

    Achaea is not a win/lose game. 

    The question is not wither or not Achaea is a win/lose game.

    The question is:
    Can you present any in-game IC, player driven mechanism, through which Eleusis can win this war? If so, please do!

    That depends very much on the meeting Ruth and Ravien has.


    We can of course win by killing all of Mhaldors guards over and over, depleting their coffers. They can do the same to us. All it takes is some metagaming by setting prearranged dates and times where all our dragons/raiders try to group up and we just smash everything with no opposition.

    image
    Silas
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2014

    Athelas said:

    Can either of you argue that Eleusis actually has a mechanism for winning this? If so, I'd love to hear it.

    That's not the way war works in Achaea; there's no mechanism for anyone to win, or for anyone to lose, until the players decide it's over. It's purely RP.

    Even if Mhaldor blows up every room in Eleusis and exterminates every single forest room in the game, and even manages to get the garden rooms in all the subdivision houses in every city, all without a single Mhaldorian dying, it still doesn't mean they've won the war.

    If Eleusis has a disadvantage, it's that the average Eleusian cares a lot more about losing (your posts are a good example of that) than the average Mhaldorian, so Eleusis is more likely to give in first. There are still realistic ways for Eleusis to win, though, the most obvious possibility being an alliance with another city/organisation. Or the leaders agreeing on terms that allow Eleusis a chance of victory rather than the usual war of attrition.

    SherazadPraxides
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Rangor said:

    You'll find that most people that have stuck with Achaea for as long as I have tend to share this mentality.

    @Rangor Fair point, I can understand that.

    Sena said:

    the average Eleusian cares a lot more about losing (your posts are a good example of that) than the average Mhaldorian
    @Sena A Mhaldorian does not have to care about winning, because it's guaranteed by game mechanics.
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I think @Athelas was expecting fun goals to pursue such that would advance a winning narrative for Eleusis, without requiring him to develop an OOC interest in coding or whatever. Judging from @Melodie's perspective, it seems fair to agree that the fun could and maybe should be distributed more evenly.

    Jhaeli
Sign In to Comment.