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Comments
I treat Achaea like a text-based League of Legends. I log in, take part in some group PvP and gtfo when it gets boring.
^^^This 100000000000000x. QUIT ARMY if constant group PvP is not your thing. Treating the city army like some sort of character badge / roleplay mechanic is the fastest way to ragequit the game if you're not interested in constant combat. Its so simple.
*deep breath*
*prepares to be flamed*
People care way too much about a game.
OH SNAP SON U SAYIN DAT MAGICAL WORD LANDMARKING?
Limiting Army RP to those who are enthusiastic about and constantly PK could be the only solution, given the game mechanics and player attitudes about restraint.
There seriously needs to be some better in-game explanation about city armies because currently any yahoo who thinks it makes their character look more loyal for the cause runs to the barracks and enlists without realizing its basically a factional version of becoming a mark (open PK). Then we get rants like IM GONNA PLAY SOMETHING ELSE BECAUSE I ENLISTED TO BE OPEN PK AND NOW IM OPEN PK AND I H8 IT.
Like, maybe a big, capitalized JOINING THE ARMY MAKES YOU OPEN PK DURING WAR TIME at the top of HELP ARMY.
Sure, exterminations are a disadvantage, but game mechanics don't decide who wins a war, players do (and they don't even always agree on who won; there have been wars where both sides claim they won, or one side claims they won while others say "that's stupid, no you didn't", but the war is over anyways). And I even agree with you that, in a war of attrition, Eleusis will almost certainly lose (but again, not just because of game mechanics). A war of attrition isn't the only option though, even if the city leaders weren't meeting to agree on terms.
I have to disagree. Eleusis has had its ups and downs over the years, we've had some stellar combatants (that are no longer active, or left Eleusis) over the years that made Eleusis pretty formidable. Names like Jhui, Batang, Zeon, and others I can't think of at the moment (not because they didn't exist). There was a point when Eleusis could handle Ashtan pretty well, and raided Ashtan's icons or raided Ashtan or Mhaldor a lot more frequently.
Eleusis' current atmosphere, sure, we might "lose" a war of attrition if some of the rants here are any indication, but maybe some top-tier(s) combatant(s) will decide to join Eleusis, and turn the tides. Anything can happen.
Its also really dumb (this isn't directed at Sena specifically) to place "win" and "lose" goals on wars in Achaea. Our factions are opposed, and whether or not we're "officially" at war, thematically we're at war, so placing silly goals like X number of rooms exterminated or who blew up more rooms, is so meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Look at it this way - in old medieval times, when nations were at war, the victor got to rape and pillage the loser and claim their land and enslave their people. In Achaea, the victor of a war gets what? E-peen bragging rights?
I didn't mean that Eleusis couldn't hold their own, just that if it only came down to which city gives up first, it probably won't be Mhaldor.
@Herenicus You assume much and think wrong.
I've earned my living developing software using C and C++ on Microsoft, Macintosh and POSIX based systems since 1994. I don't have to develop an OOC interest in coding, I'm fanatic about it. I have 4 active Open Source projects and enjoy tinkering with Arduino and Raspberry Pi.
Right now, the system I'm using for playing Achaea, is a heavily modified Onmipave, changed to suite my tastes and altered to work with server-side curing. One of the draws towards Achea, for me, is the coding aspect.
My concern here is not about combat or PvP even. It's about the fact that I as a player (note!!!! not Athelas as a character in game) do not see how Eleusis can win a war against Mhaldor, or any other city, that has the ability to exterminate forests.
That is what every single post I've made in this thread is about! How do you logistically defend a front, that is literally every forest area on every continent, while the enemy only has to defend it's gates?
Here's the thing dude, one Eleusian to another - you, as a player, are not obligated to run to every forest room that @Ayoxele or @Vicious decide to burninate. Yeah, its your characters RP, you are "sworn to defend Nature", yadda yadda. But you're not under any OOC contractual obligation to actually give two shits about some text-based forest room being set ablaze. You're playing a game to have fun, so decide what you have fun doing, stick with it, and log out if you're not having fun.
For example, I'm not logged in Achaea right now because I only have fun when theres raids / skirmishes going on, and currently there are none.
Also, you're basing Mhaldor's ability to "win the war" on the fact they can burninate said text-based forest rooms. I mean, are you keeping tally or something? Does Sarapis come down from the heavens and give them a birthday cake if they exterminate 1,000 forest rooms?
If you ask Rangor IG, he will not tell you that when you see an extermination, the first thing you must do is to rush to the room to try and stop it.. He'll tell you to def up, group with fellow defenders, assess the situation and make a call on the feasibility of stopping said extermination and how to go about it.
There's been plenty of times where Rangor's made the call to "forest bind the forest, stay on guards. We can't win that fight."
Also, if you get tired of the fights and they go on for hours. Log off, do something else, play more when it dies down or the other day.
I don't want to talk down the level of emotional and financial investment that people put into their characters, that makes them want to play all the time, but it is unnerving how much stress people are willing to put themselves through over here.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
@Aktillum Agreed, and I have done that. I'm also thoroughly aware that extermination as an RP mechanism is essential.
But, from every single post in response to mine, it's blatantly obvious that Extermination as a skill, is thoroughly OP as a game mechanic. Note the amount of responses I get, and then see if you get a single one that actually counters my argument.
I don't understand what you mean by "OP as a game mechanic". OP=overpowered, something so tremendously unbalanced that it gives the wielder an enormous advantage over the other side. Like, a 500/500/500 rapier.
The rooms rejuvenate themselves, and usually the exterminators are one or two people looking to bait someone into a death-trap. If you're saying that its OP the other side has a mechanic to bait people, my counter is that you shut down their mechanic's effectiveness by ceasing to care. In this situation, ceasing to care =/= conceding defeat, it allows you to explore other avenues of retribution.
One thing I am thoroughly impressed by though, is the level of maturity in the responses I'm getting.
Thank you all, it's amazing to be part of such a community.
I'm actually hosting the war discussion ICly, because it wouldn't make sense for me to post publicly about the meeting and then hold it OOCly.
I'm expecting it to go, "Mhaldor may be cruel and unforgiving, but contrary to expectations, we can be gracious to those who submit to the Truths. We will spare your village in the war, if Eleusis accedes to the demands we have for them. As tribute, we expect to collect X and Y and Z from Eleusis. If you resist, we will simply claim them by force." Either way, X, Y and Z will be Mhaldor's win conditions.
I'm not very sure how Eleusis can portray their win conditions as. Maybe as "That which you took for granted - life given by Nature - will be claimed by Her proponents and given back to the Earth. As such, those whom would advocate the perversion and selfishness of their Nature-granted gift will pay with X, Y and Z as penance, to nourish the land and rejuvenate it."
I personally don't think a draw would be too bad either way, if it happens. Both sides would very likely construe the results as a victory for them then, with a need for further improvement.
/forumRP
You guys want a rant? Here is one!
Inks flying everywhere!
As a runie war is goddamn expensive
That will be all.
@Athelas
Technically, there aren't any game mechanics in place for any side to win any war. Eleusis or Mhaldor. As per what people have said before, how a war is waged and won is dependent on RP.
The way I'm assessing this is that you believe that Eleusis entered a war where there is no possibility of winning. There are no mechanics to it, as other people have said it is all RP. That is why Ruth and Ravien are meeting, I would wager. So that it doesn't become a repeat of the Mhaldor-Shallam war of old. If wars could be won on exterminate and exterminate alone, this war would already be over, with Mhaldor the victor. However that is not the case here.
You are saying Eleusis can't win - well, they won't win if people don't try?
If anything, I commend Eleusis and Mhaldor for having the guts to actually enter a war.
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
It's busy for us too! We just got out from finishing our own events, plus most of the leadership is still busy with house renaissance concepts and all that shiz, but we still gotta deal with crap from pretty much all factions (ashtan/targ/eleusis) still. Just as untimely to us as it is to yours!
Also, Eleusis melee freaking hurts man. Not walking in rooms where it's a trumpet/tailsweep/trample/hydra bind/stormhammer/incinerate 3-second kill.
Mhaldor didn't really expect a war at this point to be fair, but what is, is.
Speaking of mechanics, not all our combatants have blackwind (never blackwind against druids, it's a bad idea and will lead to your death) or evade, but we do have significant advantages in certain situations. Eleusis can get into advantageous situations but they don't really have any blademasters or runewardens that are consistently around that can take advantage of sentinel/grove hindering to nail people down. It's just unfortunate more than anything.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Also we assume that everyone wants to fight, which can skew ability and competence up a lot too. Eleusis probably has a lot less in it's favour in terms of people that want to fight compared to Mhaldor, which is a city that likes to dominate people.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
When the a-bomb is dropped on x city apparently.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Just let us know when we're needed
@Athelas
Here's a few words for you, as a longtime Mhaldorian:
Sarapin Sacrifice
Mandatory Raid Defense
"Yea, our RP says we're gonna fight every other city at the same time."
Forest Defs Insta-Kill
Concoctions
Perma-stun Handaxe Brigade
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There are many more. The point is, you're just being ridiculous. This game waxes and wanes, if the game were purely equal in the way you're searching for, then Ashtan would've curbstomped every other city in Sapience during any of the sundry eras in which they had massive power advantages over the other orgs. It's not, and for good reason.
No one is responding to your "demand" or "challenge" because it's meaningless and serves no purpose in the discussion. We've all already told you it's not about win/loss conditions having to exist for Achaea to be going well.
Maybe you haven't been in much conflict? That's the sense I'm getting. Because it's just not lining up for me given your character's age and the history in Sapience that has occurred.
ps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilcRS5eUpwk
how is it OP? Forest grow back...2/3 of the game is forest...Forestal skills to repair forest rooms. Also, I've burned a ton and tbh I've BARELY EVER had someone by themselves come to defend (Let alone Eleusian coms), it's always a group.
Extermination was created before Alchemy was introduced to the game, Eleusis had a monopoly on herbal cures and it was used as a way to hinder/counter that, in small aspects. Once Alchemy was created it made it pretty much obsolete and only used as a grief eleusis aspect.
Note: When fighting Eleusis 9/10 times it's going to be in a forest, forestal defenses alone are just a minor annoyance. So fighting in it doesn't suck too bad
Also note: We don't rp with Exterminations anymore I don't think
forests on prime don't actually grow back.