What Happened To You Today?

Treyal

The whole fence thing was like almost a step int he right direction. What they should really do is make it so that a thief needs to go stand on a fence for X amount of time to 'complete' a theft, and if they die in that span or don't 'capture the flag' so to speak in a certain amount of time, everything they've stolen gets reverted.

Because, as most people have mentioned, you have literally no recourse to theft. Sure, you can maybe kill a thief if you get lucky, but evasion is still so good that if they have the full suite of get out of jail arties, you're almost completely out of luck. But killing them doesn't do anything to return what was taken, and the cost of dying these days is basically non-existent, so it's not like it's a meaningful deterrent.

Accipiter

I used to be pro-theft because how could you get rid of it and still have force abilities? But now they removed all of the interesting things force could do but left the theft and it is pretty stupid.

Kog

I feel like, at the bare minimum, thief should be open pk to anyone, 100% of the time, with no 'revenge' option. If everyone else can't opt out of that avenue of conflict, it's weird that they get to keep all the standard protections themselves. It's one of those weird spots that infamy doesn't fully cover, because in order to fight the thief you have to also opt in to open PK status yourself via Dauntless or Mark.

Synthus

I'm concerned with the approach of just marking a thief be open PK to anyone 100% of the time or even marking them open PK after a theft attempt. I feel like taking that route will push thieves to only hitting marks that cannot fight back, or turn every theft attempt into a mugging instead where they kill the target after taking what they want. I mean, they're already open PK, what's killing the target to ensure you get your item at that point?

Plus, what's the recourse for a non-com player? Hiring a Dauntless or Mark for tens of thousands of gold to... what, kill them? It's already been established that death is a minor inconvenience to thieves at best, and you don't get your stolen goods back, so it's basically useless. It's not gonna deter theft.

I do agree that fencing was a step in the right direction, but I feel it needs to be reworked to a degree. The whole auction aspect of it needs to go out the window, it needs to be a miniscule flat gold fee ( Like less than 5000 ) to get your item back, and the thief just needs to be handed a flat commission for the item stolen ( Like 1000 ). If that's not worth your time for theft, then good, don't do it.

Just getting rid of theft would be better in my eyes, but at this point anything toward that would be an improvement.

Davok

Obvious answer: make deaths hit your XP hard again.

Thaisen

If you have the "active thief" flag or whatever on you then your XP loss is multiplied by 1000%? Steal something...get killed....drop from 100 to 80!

Shirszae

Xp is only a deterrent if you care about it and most thieves don't. Sure pushing then back to level 5 would make them more trivially easy to stop I suppose but I think thr more elegant choice is to simply change how theft itself operates, either mechanically or rule wise.

Davok

I should have been clear I was being a little sarcastic.

Saonji

HONOURS KOG

He is a thief on the run.

Get tagged automatically as an 'active thief' if you steal more than a handful of times within a RL month. Once you have the tag, you can't join a city (and get removed from your current one), and get enemied to every city, nor can you leave prime by any means. Including ships.

There, people get to be thieves as much as they like, without the protections of normal hostilities. "Active thief" drops when you give up Serpent (quit the class, not just change classes) or when you fall to unranked status.

Thanks IRE, I'll take my payment by bank deposit.

Elyon

@Saonji Sounds like "remove theft" with extra steps.

also you guys can't kill me because you're trash, not because I'm good.

@Janella , @Mizik , @Dunn seem to have no problem with it, so maybe just ask them

Accipiter

While it might feel cathartic, making theft more punishing isn't going to stop theft. It is already at the point where thieves are locked out of most activities, and yet they still do it. Making them unable to join cities or open PK forever or anything else just means they will hide on a boat somewhere or only log in to thieve. The people who want to steal now do it for the love of the theft and will keep doing it as long as they can get emotionally valuable things from people.

Elyon

ok firstly @Fairweather unless this was on an alt of yours, I see it unlikely because I don't recall your name.

Plus I was not at my PC July the 10th.

Secondly, are you telling me after the first "your inventory feels lighter" you didn't do anything?

re: people saying "potentially everything your character has" - you are wrong and you have no idea about theft mechanics at all.

Elyon

@Accipiter I predominantly do not steal emotionally valuable things. Mostly I go for sovs/letters/sigils etc. Will likely only go for something bigger if you've been a tool about stuff.

Treyal

Fairweather never said it was you, in fact no one's mentioned your name at all in this entire thread.

Perhaps you should consider why, when several different people are talking about an incredibly obnoxious person doing an incredibly obnoxious thing, you assume they're talking about you.

Archaeon

i'll mention him, lol

essentially, the people that can get you are able to stop your duanathar/urn with travelling hinder, and they are classes that are capable of killing someone quickly who is not fighting back. Not every class is going to be capable of that. Why should they have the fun of killing you for money just based off their class decisions, while the rest of us are left in your dusty trail?

Elyon

re: Adrik Member Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

July 10

"BUT MUH THIEVING IS RLY FUN RP!"

No it ain't. Especially when the thief has been reported to actually fucking steal from people visiting their city.

Theft is a plague that this game has suffered for far too long, with the penalties for it being "Oh no, I'm going to always be infamous" but y'know? They potentially stole something like a priceless heirloom from ages gone past. It's not fun. It's not interactive. It preys on people with bad connections, or what have you, and entirely detracts from the world being fun and engaging.

Should I go hang out at a grove with my rogue friend? Or anywhere that isn't a city?

No! Fuck that, I get to sit in a city so I don't get constantly harassed 24/7. If I go to attack the thief? Better hope I have a Blademaster! Because Evade-UrnMount/Duanatharan (Level 2 wings)- or just evade-Dash. If they feel threatened? WAND OF REFLECTIONS. EVADE. Choose easier targets for an hour. Go back to initial target when WoR is back online.

It's not fun.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Most people I've spoken to would be quite happy with a "remove Adrik for being a generally unpleasant, slimy scumbag" as much as they would be about removing thieves.

also plenty of other classes have been able to kill me, see above post

Treyal

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't even going to touch on "I only grief people who deserve it" or the fact that the real problem is that killing a thief does literally nothing, which was the main point of the preceding discussion.

Elyon

yeah well dude, killing anyone does nothing. killing is entirely meaningless as it is.

yknow whatd really hurt thieves? actually employing antitheft. teaching your citymembers how to avoid thieves. I teach people all the damn time, I fail to see why everyone else, knowing full well thievery exists, either ignore the whole antitheft business that can stop me in my tracks or just dont tell their novices about it.

theft

is

entirely

preventable.

Treyal

so, i mean, we're agreed that you basically just take advantage of people who are new to the game and don't have antitheft, or end up having an issue with their antitheft? cool.

Archaeon

why u getting so defensive

Elyon

@Archaeon all classes are better at fighting different classes to other classes. You chose your class knowing fully well its not good against serpents.

@Treyal I rarely touch people who are that new to the game on the basis that they have nothing to steal from. Most people I hit just have bad antitheft or just choose not to use it.

also like I cant hit people under level 30

maybe uh... teach your novices antitheft a bit rather than just trying to bang them and maybe you'd do better at helping them not get robbed

Dominius

The only annoying encounter with all that thieving Elyon is doing lately was chasing him around Delos while he was evade/sniping me and a city member of Hashan just swoops in and they 2 on 1 me.. I do happily defend my city members, but people seriously... hit with hinder or ask, what's going on, ripping kills past starburst on someone who's chasing a thief around, that's just what makes this not fun. I don't hire or issue, as a personal thing.. but people seriously...

Dominius

Apparently here is not where that discussion was.. my bad!

Elyon

tbh I killed you because you had a relic and I asked for someone to defend me when you attacked me. Didn't steal from you, you had attacked me before and then had a relic so I got a lucky hit on you. If you were chasing me because of a theft than that theft has absolutely nothing to do with you since you were neither the theftee nor the mark hired to kill me.

Archaeon

there's a difference between good at fighting someone and good at stopping someone.

long story short, ur 100% happy doing shit to other ppl but do whatever you can to avoid any consequence, just like 99.9% of the players in this game. congrats on being just like everyone else. anyone that calls you out on this that isn't me is a hypocrite.

Elyon

I mean I hardly avoid any consequence. I actively embrace that the entire game knows me as a thief. My game is playing it regardless. Am I meant to just die every time someone tries to stop me? Is that what real thieves do? Someone yells "stop thief" and they uh... just stop, knowing that because they stole they must succumb to the consequence someone wishes to impose upon them?

People do plenty of shit to me. I accept it. Code my system to do better against it and move on. Hell, you've even 4v1'd me at times, though I know you prefer not to. Everyone's a hypocrite, everyone lies. People need to get over this stuff and just put fricking selfishness up and stop bitching.

Fairweather

@Elyon dude get off the cross, we need the wood.

If you seriously believe that because I came back to the game after months off, on a new pc, swapped from monk to blademaster because I’ve been watching Demon Slayer and it looked cool, learned twoarts to like 80% mythical, got dragged around to make a sword while I tried to remember a basic targeting alias, ran to like Manara Burrow Level 1 to do some test bashing, and then realized I had to tweak my BASIC BASHING ALIAS ON MY NEW COMPUTER WANTING TO COME BACK TO ENJOY A GAME, so I had the mudlet coder window up, I deserved to have the gold I got for selling my last 10 credits to attempt to regear my character - you don’t support the mechanic of theft, you support the toxicity of theft and the fact that you are not alone in that support is more than enough reason to remove the mechanic.

It eliminates a toxic gameplay loop which neither party truly benefits.

Yes, I am aware that was a massive run on sentence. Yes, I appreciate the irony.

Archaeon

You could have had selfishness on keepup. Sorry man, it's your fault you got robbed.

Elyon

I mean yes if you don't selfishness when you know full well that you need to selfishness then you are in fact a complete idiot. I bet you cross roads without looking because how dare anyone tell you to look when you cross roads, too.

Again, unless you were on an alt, that shit was nothing to do with me.

Archaeon

i purposefully don't keep selfishness up because i like to keep elyon well stocked with sigils