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What Happened To You Today?

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  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 2,945 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    :popcorn:
    KriexRyxNumiraKrizal
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 5,121 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jiraishin said:
    It's not illegal, actually. It's the usual way of dealing with org perms being used to steal org property. The thief gets killed until they give the property back.

    Where are you getting the info for this? I've seen a LOT of heavy org theft, and not once has it ever been "We get to kill you until you give what you stole back"



    AodfionnCaelan
  • TasuuTasuu SoCalMember Posts: 46 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Just kind of goes to show how game mechanics/rules clash with rp consequences. Need to find better interactions or consequences in a game where death means very little and your best option is to kill someone a few times. 
    LennTorinnAchillesYsela
  • DavokDavok Member Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Austere said:
    Cooper said:
    Jiraishin said:
    It's not illegal, actually. It's the usual way of dealing with org perms being used to steal org property. The thief gets killed until they give the property back.

    Where are you getting the info for this? I've seen a LOT of heavy org theft, and not once has it ever been "We get to kill you until you give what you stole back"


    Pretty sure Jira is right here.  Using perms to steal from an org has always resulted in full open PK status to that org. 
    Like a lot of PK rules, bountying rules, etc., I really wish if this were true (I am still unsure) that these technicalities were added to a help file somewhere instead of fading into the mists of time as the legends of older players. It really makes it difficult to understand what is and is not acceptable when half of the rules are unspoken.
    TaryiusMroxylLenn
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 2,997 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Morthif said:
    Do tokens not rez dead shipmates? That would suck. 
    Killing the shipmates may have been a bit over the line, they take forever to train and the tokens don't bring them back if you killed them in person.

    You could've also just saved yourself a lot of grief by just taking the figurehead(s) quietly or emptying the strongboxes. Or sailing somewhere really far with sea monsters and getting it sunk to cost them a bit of trouble/money with salvage. :/


  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,251 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Davok said:
    Austere said:
    Cooper said:
    Jiraishin said:
    It's not illegal, actually. It's the usual way of dealing with org perms being used to steal org property. The thief gets killed until they give the property back.

    Where are you getting the info for this? I've seen a LOT of heavy org theft, and not once has it ever been "We get to kill you until you give what you stole back"


    Pretty sure Jira is right here.  Using perms to steal from an org has always resulted in full open PK status to that org. 
    Like a lot of PK rules, bountying rules, etc., I really wish if this were true (I am still unsure) that these technicalities were added to a help file somewhere instead of fading into the mists of time as the legends of older players. It really makes it difficult to understand what is and is not acceptable when half of the rules are unspoken.
    Old ok rules, where every single thing was spelled out, sucked. I do miss reading the glorious PK lawyer replies to issues, though. 
    Caelan
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 5,121 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Austere said:
    Cooper said:
    Jiraishin said:
    It's not illegal, actually. It's the usual way of dealing with org perms being used to steal org property. The thief gets killed until they give the property back.

    Where are you getting the info for this? I've seen a LOT of heavy org theft, and not once has it ever been "We get to kill you until you give what you stole back"


    Pretty sure Jira is right here.  Using perms to steal from an org has always resulted in full open PK status to that org. 
    I'm not saying Jiraishin is wrong, just asking where he got the info from so it could be public knowledge.

    I've not seen anyone experience "free pk indefinitely" ever, couldn't find it in the HELP THEFT file or any announce posts, and I've personally stolen from an org once.

    Most relevant thing I could find was Tecton's post 10 years ago changing the withdraw limit to 500k.

    Just looking for clarification!

    Austere
  • JiraishinJiraishin trapped in a thawing block of iceMember Posts: 1,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 10
    Iakimen said:
    Jiraishin said:

    As for the guard bash... A) That's staff tradition and your lot did it when you had staff too, so shut the fuck up about it. Though I can pretty much promise that retaliatory guard bashes are upcoming. And B ), since you are perpetually saying how you are never butthurt, you love all forms of pk and conflict... shut the fuck up about it. Or rejoice, because see point A.

    How much of a tradition precisely is this guard bashing? I started playing after y600, so I can't speak with certainty, but to my knowledge neither Sothantos, Penwize, or Rangor did the guard bashing that Jhui did. The tradition you speak of started with Jhui. I'm fairly certain Jarrod did not do it, though I wasn't playing then too, so I can't say for sure. Even if Jarrod  and everyone before him guard bashed, that's really irrelevant. Targossas under the following two staff winners certainly did guard bash. The tradition could've ended with Jhui or Jarrod, but it was Targossas that chose to perpetuate it over the past 3 years.

    The only people who claim this is tradition is Targossas (I don't remember Jhui doing it because of "tradition", but because he could, which imo is a far better reason for guard bashing then the bullshit you're spouting), the only cities that have followed this tradition over the past few years have been Targossas, and the only people who think calling it tradition is a good enough reason to justify staff raiding is, really, only Targossas.

    I've no problems with guard raiding itself - I wished Farrah kept going, frankly, I certainly would have - but I've a problem with your faction justifying it via such a frail reason. That Targossas is rationalizing a fairly griefy mechanic based on the actions some faction did to you five years ago, when 95% of current Targossas wasn't even in Targossas at that time (including your current Staff winner, whom iirc was barely active back then), is absolutely ridiculous. Especially the bolded. Are you really referring to an event years ago for which neither you nor Astarod - and neither the vast majority of Ashtan's and Targossas's current combat core - were even close to being present for? Are you all still exhibiting repressed feelings of rage over Jhui's guard bashing, even though most of you weren't even there for the act to begin with? Or are you too afraid to admit that you're guard raiding just because you're strong enough to, and this "staff tradition" lets you pretend otherwise? Because it doesn't.

    I'd suggest the next time you guard raid, you do it proudly and explain that it was just for griefing purposes and to impart feelings of rage, despair, impotence, and vengeance onto your victim. That is why I guard raid - and that is why you guard raid, too. The Staff lets you guard raid better. It doesn't give you a better reason to do it than the rest of us. Don't ever say this again.

    Actually I was mentioning it because it was presented to me as a cool tradition. :(

    Now, the guard bash we're currently doing is definitely to impart feelings of rage, despair, etc.

    EDIT: Also, I think I -was- around for Jhui's bash. Not that it changes anything else you said.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
  • ArchaeonArchaeon Member Posts: 329 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    i'm still butthurt about jhui 
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,681 @ - Epic Achaean
    Jiraishin said:
    impart feelings of rage, despair, etc.
    Wait do people actually care about guards?

    DorielFarrah
  • JiraishinJiraishin trapped in a thawing block of iceMember Posts: 1,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 10
    Pyori said:
    Jiraishin said:
    impart feelings of rage, despair, etc.
    Wait do people actually care about guards?
    I dunno, do they? Let's find out together.

    Less flippantly, I think the main deal is the morale blow and the statement made. The treasury drain and pain-in-the-ass of rehiring and re-placing tends to be secondary.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,733 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 10
    @Morthif does

    So does Achilles
  • JiraishinJiraishin trapped in a thawing block of iceMember Posts: 1,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    On a completely different note, I had loads of fun with the debate tonight. I love that kind of thing. I was actually hoping to argue neg side on that prompt, just because it would go against everyone's expectation of my character.

    Now would other cities please field some late entry teams so I don't have to bite my nails debating against Mathonwy every night ohgod
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
    MroxylAodfionnCailinTorinn
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,443 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 10
    Iakimen said:
    Jiraishin said:

    As for the guard bash... A) That's staff tradition and your lot did it when you had staff too, so shut the fuck up about it. Though I can pretty much promise that retaliatory guard bashes are upcoming. And B ), since you are perpetually saying how you are never butthurt, you love all forms of pk and conflict... shut the fuck up about it. Or rejoice, because see point A.

    How much of a tradition precisely is this guard bashing? I started playing after y600, so I can't speak with certainty, but to my knowledge neither Sothantos, Penwize, or Rangor did the guard bashing that Jhui did. The tradition you speak of started with Jhui. I'm fairly certain Jarrod did not do it, though I wasn't playing then too, so I can't say for sure. Even if Jarrod  and everyone before him guard bashed, that's really irrelevant. Targossas under the following two staff winners certainly did guard bash. The tradition could've ended with Jhui or Jarrod, but it was Targossas that chose to perpetuate it over the past 3 years.

    The only people who claim this is tradition is Targossas (I don't remember Jhui doing it because of "tradition", but because he could, which imo is a far better reason for guard bashing then the bullshit you're spouting), the only cities that have followed this tradition over the past few years have been Targossas, and the only people who think calling it tradition is a good enough reason to justify staff raiding is, really, only Targossas.

    I've no problems with guard raiding itself - I wished Farrah kept going, frankly, I certainly would have - but I've a problem with your faction justifying it via such a frail reason. That Targossas is rationalizing a fairly griefy mechanic based on the actions some faction did to you five years ago, when 95% of current Targossas wasn't even in Targossas at that time (including your current Staff winner, whom iirc was barely active back then), is absolutely ridiculous. Especially the bolded. Are you really referring to an event years ago for which neither you nor Astarod - and neither the vast majority of Ashtan's and Targossas's current combat core - were even close to being present for? Are you all still exhibiting repressed feelings of rage over Jhui's guard bashing, even though most of you weren't even there for the act to begin with? Or are you too afraid to admit that you're guard raiding just because you're strong enough to, and this "staff tradition" lets you pretend otherwise? Because it doesn't.

    I'd suggest the next time you guard raid, you do it proudly and explain that it was just for griefing purposes and to impart feelings of rage, despair, impotence, and vengeance onto your victim. That is why I guard raid - and that is why you guard raid, too. The Staff lets you guard raid better. It doesn't give you a better reason to do it than the rest of us. Don't ever say this again.


    You are like the Grinch stealing Christmas. Quit ruining our traditions. :(

    ("Tradition" doesn't mean it's for vengeance though. I think every staff bearer should do it because how often are you strong enough to solo bash full stationary stacks? But if every staff bearer does it... What is that called? It's not meant as a blame game by most of us at least.)
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,681 @ - Epic Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    Morthif does
    Don't think he does, just rehiring and placing them all again, which I guess is understandable. It's monotonous more than anything, in the same vein as replanting totems. B-o-r-i-n-g.
    Jiraishin said:
    I think the main deal is the morale blow and the statement made. The treasury drain and pain-in-the-ass of rehiring and re-placing tends to be secondary.
    Is there a morale blow, though? That's what I'm asking. Savants alone can cover literally thousands of guards if need be, so even that drain isn't a huge deal. Really I think the only 'annoying' part is not having a font, and that's getting remedied.

    MroxylDoriel
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jiraishin said:
    On a completely different note, I had loads of fun with the debate tonight. I love that kind of thing. I was actually hoping to argue neg side on that prompt, just because it would go against everyone's expectation of my character.

    Now would other cities please field some late entry teams so I don't have to bite my nails debating against Mathonwy every night ohgod
    I am bitter that this was implemented so long after I left, but I just read the post and this looked AWESOME. Y'all killed it!
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


  • CailinCailin Member Posts: 319 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Cooper said:
    Jiraishin said:
    It's not illegal, actually. It's the usual way of dealing with org perms being used to steal org property. The thief gets killed until they give the property back.

    Where are you getting the info for this? I've seen a LOT of heavy org theft, and not once has it ever been "We get to kill you until you give what you stole back"


    I don't know where it came from or how legitimate it is, but I did hear the very same thing said after Wicella did her thing.
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,295 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Leaving ship perms on a traitor is just begging to get ransacked. 


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    Taleila
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,522 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    We are just going to do the equivalent of damage to Ashtan via tanks or guards or whatever.  Was an administrative fuck up by one person and was missed for a few rl weeks during a busy time of the game.  
    image
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,522 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 10
    As far as guard bashing goes, I know Sothantos did it to Shallam after he won it so it's definitely not a Jhui tradition, it's what happens when someone gets a dozen TFs and this was pre-guards being buffed considerably (they doubled their health at the very least).  Ashtan used to guard bash Shallam with any flimsy excuse, new city leader, new MoW, new shoes, Dunn's first beer, Taco Tuesday.  Ashtan didn't even bother defending (and they had defenders) but Farrah just kept bashing away (and died probably 50 times from it) without much resistance.  A couple of experienced defenders could stop guard bashing pretty effectively if they wanted.
    image
  • SiduriSiduri Member Posts: 1,581 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 10
    Minifie said:
    Leaving ship perms on a traitor is just begging to get ransacked. 
    For the last two RL months, I've been placed on PTSD leave following a traumatic work incident that led to the sudden and tragic loss of my own mother on my own watch.

    Also, for the last three months or so, my laptop has been dead and my presence in game is 95% on phone, AFK, dealing with medical issues, family matters, helping my father cope with widowhood, insurances, and his bills. That's without counting the growing pile of bills I can't yet pay because I'm considered a workplace liability due to my psychological state.

    I'm unable to focus sufficiently to write a damn IC post, or read the logs lately. So yes. I slipped up. Maybe I need to be replaced. I don't know. I'm just f-ing through with some people's shit.

    image
  • SophiSophi Member Posts: 41 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    "I'm gonna murder you if you don't return my shit" is perfectly valid. Just happens to be unfortunate that you can be murdered multiple times. 
  • ZavalaZavala Member Posts: 2
    The only reason my first character is not still open pk to the Crystalline is because Shallam got sunk.

    Was definitely indefinite.
  • AstarodAstarod Member Posts: 401 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Achilles said:
    As far as guard bashing goes, I know Sothantos did it to Shallam after he won it so it's definitely not a Jhui tradition, it's what happens when someone gets a dozen TFs and this was pre-guards being buffed considerably (they doubled their health at the very least).  Ashtan used to guard bash Shallam with any flimsy excuse, new city leader, new MoW, new shoes, Dunn's first beer, Taco Tuesday.  Ashtan didn't even bother defending (and they had defenders) but Farrah just kept bashing away (and died probably 50 times from it) without much resistance.  A couple of experienced defenders could stop guard bashing pretty effectively if they wanted.
    Yeah there were some mess ups, could have done better. Oh well! Next time I'll try to handle things better on my end. Was pretty fun a few times, admittedly. 
     The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 440 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Zavala said:
    The only reason my first character is not still open pk to the Crystalline is because Shallam got sunk.

    Was definitely indefinite.
    Old theft rules was open PK for a while after thieving but that got changed long ago. I think stealing org ships and items do give a RP justification under rule 1 though.
  • PuxiPuxi Member Posts: 553 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Siduri said:
    Minifie said:
    Leaving ship perms on a traitor is just begging to get ransacked. 
    For the last two RL months, I've been placed on PTSD leave following a traumatic work incident that led to the sudden and tragic loss of my own mother on my own watch.

    Also, for the last three months or so, my laptop has been dead and my presence in game is 95% on phone, AFK, dealing with medical issues, family matters, helping my father cope with widowhood, insurances, and his bills. That's without counting the growing pile of bills I can't yet pay because I'm considered a workplace liability due to my psychological state.

    I'm unable to focus sufficiently to write a damn IC post, or read the logs lately. So yes. I slipped up. Maybe I need to be replaced. I don't know. I'm just f-ing through with some people's shit.
    Holy shit man, take care of yourself. If you aren't stable, it is going to be hard to care for someone else. I will check tomorrow to see if my work has an extra laptop they plan on getting rid of soon. It might not be the best, but it will run.

    In the meantime, I saw this link in another thread that might help you out: https://www.psychologytoday.com/ There are linked to therapists and resources to help you through this. Stay strong!
    SiduriRyx
  • SiduriSiduri Member Posts: 1,581 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Puxi : Thanks. I'm not comfortable about the laptop thing, so please don't worry about it. As for help, my employer covered a few sessions, and I was appointed a social worker today (they called just after we kicked Ashtan off the CTS Fervour).

    Your offer is appreciated, though.

    image
    Puxi
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