Best in each class

Mizik

Only problem with a Jester in groups is it can't kill. You can support, pin, even lock an opponent, but you can't realistically pause your system to kill in a skirmish.

As soon as your killers bail or go down you have to retreat. Two noobs can keep each other alive vs a Jester in a reasonable skirmish. 

And @Stuneree roleplay the character, not the class.‌ 

Santar

Mizik said:

Only problem with a Jester in groups is it can't kill. You can support, pin, even lock an opponent, but you can't realistically pause your system to kill in a skirmish.

As soon as your killers bail or go down you have to retreat. Two noobs can keep each other alive vs a Jester in a reasonable skirmish. 

You can pause to jitb if you're a scrub.


brb making jester alt to jitb in skirmishes.

Mako

when i was alchemist i mastered the class to a point i got bored with it. Cadarus had more artefacts than i did which made aurify a lot easier to get

Mishgul

wat

Mako

Mishgul said:

wat

?

Mishgul

?

Talysin

Hah. I've gotten som lol-worthy kills with JITB in skirmishes.

Also had some pretty scrubby deaths . Sometimes I want my name on death sight, sue me.

Terra

Jester is an amazing class currently. It has both easy-to-use kills that will work on almost everyone, harder-to-use kills that keep it interesting/kill faster/work on better people, and kills that are impossible for most classes to stop. It also has great mobility/escape, and some good survival abilities.

Jester is also an amazing assist class in groups.

Jester only really has two problems: 1. It's squishy (though this is largely made up for by its escape abilities) and 2. It doesn't get kills in group combat. A lot of Mhaldorians are nice enough to let you puppet leech them while they hunt, though, which gets you some xp to make up for the lack of xp you gain in group combat.

Would recommend, unless not getting kills in raids will frustrate you.

Jovolo

Tarot's a skill*

Achilles

This is more of a recent list in the last 3.5 years.  It's hard to compare eras with all the class lead changes, artefacts, icons, curing systems etc etc

 List
==============
Alchemist:   @Cadarus - I haven't actually sparred him but this seems to be a universal consensus

Apostate:    @Carmain - Impale/Trample vivisect the worst.  Wark

Bard:        @Xinna‌ - Xinna glued together a make-shift curing system afaik but her offense is always spot on plus can turtle like a pro.

Blademaster: Not sure - Sothantos was a staff wielding BM with pre-voidfist nerf, Mizik is Mizik, Caladbolg could hang with anyone without many arties and non-dragon health.  

Druid:       Any of the non-mudsexer will qualify

Infernal:    @Tirac - The Kalvon vs Tirac 3rd duel lasted forever

Jester:      @Bonko - Not for 1v1 prowess but best in class for grief 

Magi:        @Earionduil - Discipline is a skill, always picks fights on his terms essentially which gives you a very low success rate

Monk:        @Jhui - Ridiculous KO power.  There are lots of level 3 artied monks, somehow Jhui still feels much harder to kill than the rest.

Occultist:   @Tanris- none of the current Occultists even remotely close

Paladin:     Easily @Kalvon

Priest:      @Tesha or @Darroth - Tesha 1v1, Darroth for group support

Runewarden:  @Tynil was the best I've seen since I came back in 2011.

Sentinel:    @Rangor - I'm mostly going off what Santar said

Serpent:     @Santar 

Shaman:     @Xer is the only Shaman I really recall

Sylvan:      @Twil

Jarrel

Achilles said:

This is more of a recent list in the last 3.5 years.  It's hard to compare eras with all the class lead changes, artefacts, icons, curing systems etc etc

 List
==============
Alchemist:   @Cadarus - I haven't actually sparred him but this seems to be a universal consensus

Apostate:    @Carmain - Impale/Trample vivisect the worst.  Wark

Bard:        @Xinna‌ - Xinna glued together a make-shift curing system afaik but her offense is always spot on plus can turtle like a pro.

Blademaster: Not sure - Sothantos was a staff wielding BM with pre-voidfist nerf, Mizik is Mizik, Caladbolg could hang with anyone without many arties and non-dragon health.  

Druid:       Any of the non-mudsexer will qualify

Infernal:    @Tirac - The Kalvon vs Tirac 3rd duel lasted forever

Jester:      @Bonko - Not for 1v1 prowess but best in class for grief 

Magi:        @Earionduil - Discipline is a skill, always picks fights on his terms essentially which gives you a very low success rate

Monk:        @Jhui - Ridiculous KO power.  There are lots of level 3 artied monks, somehow Jhui still feels much harder to kill than the rest.

Occultist:   @Tanris- none of the current Occultists even remotely close

Paladin:     Easily @Kalvon

Priest:      @Tesha or @Darroth - Tesha 1v1, Darroth for group support

Runewarden:  @Tynil was the best I've seen since I came back in 2011.

Sentinel:    @Rangor - I'm mostly going off what Santar said

Serpent:     @Santar 

Shaman:     @Xer is the only Shaman I really recall

Sylvan:      @Twil

Very few people on there I would consider the best in their class tbh. Kalvon? Santar? Tynil? Should have given a more specific time instead of a length of 3 .5 years

Achilles

Jarrel said:

Achilles said:

This is more of a recent list in the last 3.5 years.  It's hard to compare eras with all the class lead changes, artefacts, icons, curing systems etc etc

 List
==============
Alchemist:   @Cadarus - I haven't actually sparred him but this seems to be a universal consensus

Apostate:    @Carmain - Impale/Trample vivisect the worst.  Wark

Bard:        @Xinna‌ - Xinna glued together a make-shift curing system afaik but her offense is always spot on plus can turtle like a pro.

Blademaster: Not sure - Sothantos was a staff wielding BM with pre-voidfist nerf, Mizik is Mizik, Caladbolg could hang with anyone without many arties and non-dragon health.  

Druid:       Any of the non-mudsexer will qualify

Infernal:    @Tirac - The Kalvon vs Tirac 3rd duel lasted forever

Jester:      @Bonko - Not for 1v1 prowess but best in class for grief 

Magi:        @Earionduil - Discipline is a skill, always picks fights on his terms essentially which gives you a very low success rate

Monk:        @Jhui - Ridiculous KO power.  There are lots of level 3 artied monks, somehow Jhui still feels much harder to kill than the rest.

Occultist:   @Tanris- none of the current Occultists even remotely close

Paladin:     Easily @Kalvon

Priest:      @Tesha or @Darroth - Tesha 1v1, Darroth for group support

Runewarden:  @Tynil was the best I've seen since I came back in 2011.

Sentinel:    @Rangor - I'm mostly going off what Santar said

Serpent:     @Santar 

Shaman:     @Xer is the only Shaman I really recall

Sylvan:      @Twil

Very few people on there I would consider the best in their class tbh. Kalvon? Santar? Tynil? Should have given a more specific time instead of a length of 3 .5 years

I prefaced it for that time period because that's what I personally witnessed.  A few things have changed in recent years too, traits, racial perks (raja balance nerf, grook eq nerf etc), more artefacts, diminishing returns, skill overhauls.  Affliction classes in general have been buffed to counter improved curing (both client and server side) while damage classes have lost some potency with diminishing return nerfs at the higher end.

Kalvon (unartied) was easily the most effective Paladin in the last few years, after that it would be Ellodin or Cooper. 

Serps, Magi, Monks, Runewardens are all non-factional classes so there will probably be an inherent bias plus less opportunity to spar everyone to get a good fix on who is the best.  

Kerria

@Kenway‌ you and @Aerek‌ are always my number one answer when someone tells kerria that they want to learn rune warden combat. 

Wessux

Kerria said:

@Kenway‌ you and @Aerek‌ are always my number one answer when someone tells kerria that they want to learn rune warden combat. 

Why do I never get any love?

Melodie

Mhaldorians don't need love, only suffering!

Cynlael

Idk... I think getting love from a lot of newer chars/alts would be classed as suffering.

Jarrel

I would put spire above kalvon in a heartbeat having fought them both. The offense was just ridiculous pressure. 

Kenway

Kerria said:

@Kenway‌ you and @Aerek‌ are always my number one answer when someone tells kerria that they want to learn rune warden combat. 

Awww thanks ^_^ I'm pretty sure earlier in the thread I said I wanted to be on someone's list someday so you kinda made my day.
@Aerek and @Wessux taught me almost everything I know and can both school me unless I'm just completely in the zone that day in which case it's still usually a draw.
When I first saw @Aelios fight he was kinda a joke to me and just flailed damage while I destroyed his limbs and disemboweled him. Fighting him after coming back recently, he is unrecognizable as a fighter with ridiculous offensive pressure and the skill to back up his primarily damage tactics should they fail.
I'd put Aerek or Aelios down as my top Runie (Wess went Infernal, the bastard) Aerek's got the defense, Aelios the offence. All three fighters minimally artied by the way.

Ernam

@Exelethril is the "best" Runewarden that I have personal experience with, by a longshot.  @Aelios is also a damn good 1v1er though, in his own way.  Like I mentioned before, @Atalkez is also pretty great, purely because of his willingness to jump into a fray with totem wielded without being a chicken about it, as many runies tend to do.

With classes like Runie, the offense is simple enough that it's difficult to impress anyone with it, so it really comes down to defensive/meta play that makes Exelethril awesome in my book.  I've fought him as upwards of 5-6 classes, and he consistently reads and/or anticipates everything very well, and knows exactly what to do and when to do it.

90% of the runewardens I fight lose their temper when they realize that cheesey damage stacking and un-hindered double arm, double leg break doesn't kill me, particularly when SLC is accurately catching torso breaks.  Any runie that can actually win against these things, combined with static parry, is a "damn good runewarden" IMO.

I still can't get over how badass my Sceptre of Aqueous Mastery is against runies though.  I've had more than one person flatly abandon the prospect of combat purely because I have one, and know when to use it. 

Mizik

scoff

@Ernam our 4am Runie vs eternal TF monk dates

Exelethril

Thanks for the compliment I don't really think I'm that good though and runie offense is quite cookie cutter(and boring). 

Ernam

Mizik said:

scoff

@Ernam our 4am Runie vs eternal TF monk dates

I'll be honest.  Only reason I bash is for TFs.  When you have a full level 3 stat set, +1 to each stat (+2 con) is worth an extrapolated 20,000cr.  Add the 15% damage reduction for ridiculously broken PVP advantage, and it's clearly a pretty great use of time.  Not to mention, people just don't bash like they used to.  It's really easy to make essentially any God's top 3.  At one point I was actually the highest essence count for four gods at one time.

Jovolo

And my penis is thiiiiiiiis big

Austere

Jovolo said:

And my penis is thiiiiiiiis big

I think you under estimate the true size, my friend.  Needs more I's.

Anedhel

Imperial i's, not metric i's.

Mizik

Ernam said:

Mizik said:

scoff

@Ernam our 4am Runie vs eternal TF monk dates

I'll be honest.  Only reason I bash is for TFs.  When you have a full level 3 stat set, +1 to each stat (+2 con) is worth an extrapolated 20,000cr.  Add the 15% damage reduction for ridiculously broken PVP advantage, and it's clearly a pretty great use of time.  Not to mention, people just don't bash like they used to.  It's really easy to make essentially any God's top 3.  At one point I was actually the highest essence count for four gods at one time.

My point was I bent you sideways as Runie.

Kenway

Ernam said:

I still can't get over how badass my Sceptre of Aqueous Mastery is against runies though.  I've had more than one person flatly abandon the prospect of combat purely because I have one, and know when to use it. 

I think one of my greatest shortcomings as a Runie is the fact that I just flat out don't use runes. Aside from j/a/b and runeblades I really never touch the things. Damn glad I don't sometimes though. I'd hate to have to fight someone with a sceptre if I was used to having runes help me

Aelios

Kenway said:

Ernam said:

I still can't get over how badass my Sceptre of Aqueous Mastery is against runies though.  I've had more than one person flatly abandon the prospect of combat purely because I have one, and know when to use it. 

I think one of my greatest shortcomings as a Runie is the fact that I just flat out don't use runes. Aside from j/a/b and runeblades I really never touch the things. Damn glad I don't sometimes though. I'd hate to have to fight someone with a sceptre if I was used to having runes help me

You're killing me smalls...


And I appreciate the sentiment mentioned earlier. My problem is that while I might functionally know how to do things, actually doing them in the heat of battle is far more difficult. 

...Fighting off using aliases as long as I can, god willing. Thank you for the kind words, however, @Kenway

Wessux

Kenway said:

Ernam said:

I still can't get over how badass my Sceptre of Aqueous Mastery is against runies though.  I've had more than one person flatly abandon the prospect of combat purely because I have one, and know when to use it. 

I think one of my greatest shortcomings as a Runie is the fact that I just flat out don't use runes. Aside from j/a/b and runeblades I really never touch the things. Damn glad I don't sometimes though. I'd hate to have to fight someone with a sceptre if I was used to having runes help me

Ground runes are for the weak.

Ernam

Wunjo/Nairat in adjacent rooms is one of the most effective defensive maneuvers in the game, for 1v1 combat.  Against monks, for example, it can essentially stop almost every single kill method available to the class, simply by tumbling into it.  The possibility for a runie to tumble into their own wunjo/nairat existing forces a monk to counter this by either mind throwing them somewhere else, canceling the tumble, forcing an unenemy (doesn't work against good people), etc.  This additional requirement/balance time is enough to disrupt most kill setups (you can't BBT/command).  Serpent/BM can simply evade, but even that is 2 seconds during what would otherwise be an uninterrupted kill setup.  Tumbling into wunjo/nairat on a snap, for example could easily be the difference between a lock and easily curing out.  You can always just walk (instead of tumble) into wunjo/nairat any time you need to cure up, for a pretty solid 3-5 seconds of safety, which is more than enough to ruin most classes momentum.

Uruz, on another hand, should absolutely not be discounted.  For damage classes, it can very easily be the difference between it being possible to kill someone, and being simply mathematically impossible.  Mizik's example in that log is a pretty good example of how stacked regen can completely shut down even the best (and most artefacted) kill setups.

I also once saw Aelios completely break a Rampage by starting the event by dropping Nauthiz (hunger) runes in every room in the first 30 seconds.  Thankfully he did it before the event started, so I was able to quit, buy a ton of food, then rejoin - but that thing is seriously dangerous when used well.

Tiwaz is also pretty awesome, but I never see anyone use it...

Ground runes are no joke.