Best in each class

Ulrike

Ernam said:

*Serp (could talk about this all day, since I've been in all four serp houses in the last 10-ish years)  When it comes down to originality and true talent, particularly early in the game, I tip my hat to @Jarrel, @Aista, @Ulrike, @Hieyoko (not necessarily for affliction combat), anyone using my tracker 

wut

Of those four, Jarrel is the only really top-notch combatant. I used to be a dab hand at group combat but that's ... not quite the same. Same for Hieyoko. Aista was a hellraiser back in the day, but a lot of her (deserved) reputation is RP rather than combat innovation.

Off the top of my head -- Deridius, Dumah, Proficy as serp, Ellodin, Profit, Daes, Terra, Serthest, Silvaria, Altarius, Isaiah, Eredar, Orophin, that one dude from the Shadowsnakes whose name I'm always forgetting (Trance?), etc. are or were all better examples of clever or good 1v1 serpent combatants, IMHO. (To say nothing of the dozens I'm not thinking of right now.)

Ernam

Ulrike said:

Off the top of my head -- Deridius, Dumah, Proficy as serp, Ellodin, Profit, Daes, Serthest, Silvaria, Altarius, Isaiah, Eredar, Orophin, that one dude from the Shadowsnakes whose name I'm always forgetting (Trance?), etc. are or were all better examples of clever or good 1v1 serpent combatants, IMHO. (To say nothing of the dozens I'm not thinking of right now.)

I would definitely agree with you on a lot of those, especially Deridius and Cobra (please tell me you weren't referencing Daloc).  I just didn't think of'em, my bad.  Again, I'm not gauging people on their skills relative to these days, I'm gauging them on their impact on combat at the time.  Which... might actually make Daloc a "great" serpent depending on how you look at it.  He got a lot of stuff nerfed, but would be the first to say that he didn't bother much with afflictions.

Not going to be specific, but a lot of these people were just in the 'wave' of mid-90s serpent craze, and weren't particularly special.  I put myself in that crowd, and I think most other people would as well.  (I don't think I did anything particularly novel with the class until around 2011-12)

Hasar

Does it count as a kill if I made my enemy flagon in a 1v1

Santar

The Mind of Ernam:

Where I am credited as the MVP Sentinel for the premium axe-whoring abuse I did in 2006, where Hieyoko, Aista, and Ulrike are the dominant Serpent fighters of all time, where Lilian is one of the great and innovative combat minds, where Jhui stands no chance against Proficy, Atalkez is the simultaneous best at two different classes, and Ayoxele is a scrub.


What it must be like to be inside this guy's head.

Ernam

@Santar That was some pretty fancy "quoting" ya did there.


Gonna gtfo of this thread before it turns into yet another shit-flinging venue, assuming it hasn't already.

Santar

You should start doing a weekly Achaean talk-show on Twitch or YT. I'd watch it.

Zeon

I'd pay for the above.

Dunn

Subbed.

Santar

That's actually something I've been wanting to see for a while - An Achaean talk show that airs once a week or so to talk about current Achaea events/status of the game. Small community, but I'm guessing most forum-goers would watch it.

Vaehl

Jeez I want to have a day in the life of Ernam IRL reality show.

Bukariin

What surprises me is that nobody uses Teamspeak, especially for group raids.

Eld

Man, I can't believe no one ever told me that using my class's primary instakill made me bad at the class. Been doing it wrong this whole time.

Rom

Bukariin said:

What surprises me is that nobody uses Teamspeak, especially for group raids.

Definitely happens all the time, at least on a small scale. Having like an Eleusis voip that 10 people hop into on defense seems way too metagamey if that's what you mean.

Nim

Eld said:

Man, I can't believe no one ever told me that using my class's primary instakill made me bad at the class. Been doing it wrong this whole time.

Only scrubs use class skills. True hardcore elites kill using masterfully executed headslams.

Caladbolg

Ernam said:

A lot of people need to realize that getting a lot of kills doesn't make you the "best" at a class.. or anything, really.

My rankings would be purely based on creativity, originality, and adaptibility against opponents who actually know what they're doing.

Sure, a popular BM might kill Jhui ten times in a row, but if Jhui (hypothetically) doesn't know how to avoid a simple void/para/impaleslash gimmick, and dies to it every time, it doesn't make the BM amazing, no matter how good Jhui is at literally everything else.

Another point is, as was pointed out in the last "who's da best" thread, true combat skill really comes down to your ability to know every other class, not really your own.

So, setting that aside (since I think this thread is really only supposed to be focused on who's good at offense), here's an impromptu list. I  wouldn't submit this to guinness, and I'm sure I'm leaving people out, but here goes.  Please keep in mind that my judgement is primarily based on originality and adaptability, not ability to class swap to broken classes and abuse things other people developed.


(good) Occultist - @Jaizsur / @Poergh  Super oldschool:  @Manu (first artied dragon-occultist with area-wide warp, etc.  JFC)
(new) Occultist - not a particularly skill-based class
Paladin - @Caladbolg, who is the only person who consistently pulls off affliction-based kills (Damnation, rift-locks, etc).
*Monk - @Proficy.  If Proficy and @Jhui faced off with equal arties, Proficy would wipe the floor with Jhui 10 times out of 10.  Sry brah.
*Serp (could talk about this all day, since I've been in all four serp houses in the last 10-ish years)  When it comes down to originality and true talent, particularly early in the game, I tip my hat to @Jarrel, @Aista, @Ulrike, @Hieyoko (not necessarily for affliction combat), anyone using my tracker  .  In more modern times, I'd say that @Terra was pretty decent, and @Isaiah may be the next top dog.
Apostate - @Malifuus.  Currently, @Xer.  @Ayoxele will be good if he learns more about other classes.  Apostate offense isn't difficult (anymore).  Sorry.
*Blademaster - Caladbolg, for doing things before anyone else.  @Atalkez for balacing a decent offense with great survivability.  Myself, for being the only BM that I've ever heard of that doesn't (literally, ever) use Brokenstar.  Venom lock, or go home.
Jester - not a combat class.  Best at griefing with Jester: Jarrel, @Manu, @Bonko
*Bard - @Cooper, for getting bard nerfed so hard nobody played it for 5 years.  Lilian, for inventing/discovering all of the gimmicks that Xinna gets credit for.
*Magi - @Cain magi'd pretty damn hard.  You can blame arties, but that's what magi is all about.  @Lothiac was, by far, the most creative and adaptive magi combatant I've ever seen.  Try inventing a new idea for magi.  Seriously, I dare you.  Well, he did - and a lot.  Doesn't/Didn't even have arties.  Honorable mention for @Osek, who also relied massively on huge artie stacks (prior to dim. returns) and also came up with a few new ideas.  (was perhaps the first to use ret/amnesia pet?)
Alchemist - Not going to give this to anyone purely for being the only active alchemist.  Nobody has excelled as alchemist yet, because I don't think it's really that possible to do so, yet (the class is good, but still needs some adjustments)
Druid - not a PK class, so n/a.  Best at Druid RP, you ask?  I have no idea.
Sentinel - @Santar
Runewarden - Shallam/Targossas has always had the best runies, for some reason.  The class isn't really one of creativity, so defensive/survival skill and ability to anticipate your opponent is really where you shine.  I think @Atalkez is the best at this, in the recent months/year.
Shaman - @Mindshell was the original Shaman fighter.  @Dumah was OK too, and @Spire came later (I actually made a pretty fierce shaman as well, but didn't stick with it long enough to throw myself in this ranking)
*Sylvan - Twil and Lothiac are very near each other.  However, Lothiac coined almost all of the now staple strategies, and was also a damn good fighter as a sylvan before heartseed was released.
*Infernal - Anyone who can't survive literally anything, and kill literally anyone as an Infernal is pretty bad at combat.  "I don't really respect anyone that plays this class. Really OP/cheesy class that nobody decent is playing right now. A few scrubs do ok with this class due to the raw power it has though." - @Santar‌


* I asterisked a few classes that I think are particularly prone to class hoppers who recognize a classes amazing potential, and switch to it and use strategies that are essentially cookie-cutter kill setups that were designed by other people.  (Ex: Minuet lock, "guaranteed" (against almost everyone) frenzy/Vivisect, 38% damage 1.5 second kai chokes, cheese-dick brokenstar setups, and so on)

I Wouldn't really consider my self the best paladin, just the only one who played the class, Damnation only really works because no ones expecting it or used to seeing it to start with, after that it goes back to near impossible. Went runewarden too for the boost in damage combo, Disembowel only works on a few people, Damnation barely works on anyone (Assuming they have focus) Your real strategy is just damage.     On the other hand if we're talking about cleave well...

Bukariin

Rom said:

Bukariin said:

What surprises me is that nobody uses Teamspeak, especially for group raids.

Definitely happens all the time, at least on a small scale. Having like an Eleusis voip that 10 people hop into on defense seems way too metagamey if that's what you mean.

I don't think it's "metagamey" to use an out-of-game utility to communicate where the game interface makes it difficult to do so because your in-game messages are competing for space with combat spam.  Most MMOs utilize a voice talk option and don't consider it sinful.

Caladbolg

Bukariin said:

Rom said:

Bukariin said:

What surprises me is that nobody uses Teamspeak, especially for group raids.

Definitely happens all the time, at least on a small scale. Having like an Eleusis voip that 10 people hop into on defense seems way too metagamey if that's what you mean.

I don't think it's "metagamey" to use an out-of-game utility to communicate where the game interface makes it difficult to do so because your in-game messages are competing for space with combat spam.  Most MMOs utilize a voice talk option and don't consider it sinful.

I think the problem with "teamspeak" is the ooc boundries your breaking while using it.

Which some people care about... On the other hand people do skype alot, and yes communication on those levels are actually game breaking compared to typing everything out.      Excluding triggered party calls.

Edit: For the record everytime I randomly jump someone they are almost dead then some of there friends just happen to walk in and have others earring to them and get wtf 5-1 ganked then later other person says oh, I was on skype and said oh god Caladbolgs ganking me.. yeah >_> f you guys

Santar

Using voice call applications to talk to people regarding IG  things isn't really breaching any OOC boundaries.  You're just using a method to more quickly convey yourself.  If you want to get technical, using your OOC human body and a keyboard + computer to interact with a fictional fantasy world is just as OOC as using a voice call to allow your characters to quickly communicate during various things.

Then again, if you want to be a true purist about it, you could argue that anything that doesn't explicitly happen on achaea.com port 23 isn't IC.

Strata

TeamSpeak is pretty much widely accepted/allowed in every other game I've played. Communication channels in the game exist for a reason. It's an immersion thing. The moment factions start using TS3 for raiding tactical comms is the moment when the whole combat paradigm shifts from "this is a lot of fun." to "Might as well be playing a FPS." I play a lot of FPS and do not want to see the same shit in Achaea.

Bukariin

And I understand that some people stray away from breaking OOC boundaries as much as possible, but these people by and large don't PVP.  Every time an action triggers you to spam PT with "(target) CHOKED" you're breaking an OOC boundary.

I'd be willing to set up a Teamspeak server if I felt like more people would use it and it wouldn't get me in trouble for the aforementioned "OOC boundary" violation.

Daslin

I still wanna be able to shout "TWO CAT!" when I get rek't.... I can't do that in most parties ic.

Zeon

voip is only okay if you try your hardest to sound as your character would sound

Dunn

AWP holding A doors, one smoked CT cross. 

Daslin

Planting long, one CT spawn.

Xer

Eh, Skype/Voice chat can be useful in retardation that can't be achieved via IG methods, but otherwise, it technically doesn't add too much more to the table probably. Also, back to nursing second degree burns on my fingers. I didn't think cooked fingers were going to be on the menu T_T

Talysin

Terra said:

Talysin said:

Looks like Santar is doing that "Lie/sensationalize to protect his ego" thing, again.

His post is at least partially true. I haven't managed to kill him yet, because he either runs away or flagons on truelock (and heartstops) every single fight.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/6a44e03d

Thats at least partially what I meant. He sensationalizes his combat history. Nobody really kills him because he will turtle off plane at the hint of a set up. Heartstopping to protect your ego/stat stats is really unsportsmanlike. Continuing to then forum brag about not dying is both ludicrous and disingenuous.

Also, you can use that flagon-thing on a true lock? Who the fuck thought that was a good idea? Also, I've been gone for a while - what fancy toy is this?

Talysin

Bukariin said:

Rom said:

Bukariin said:

What surprises me is that nobody uses Teamspeak, especially for group raids.

Definitely happens all the time, at least on a small scale. Having like an Eleusis voip that 10 people hop into on defense seems way too metagamey if that's what you mean.

I don't think it's "metagamey" to use an out-of-game utility to communicate where the game interface makes it difficult to do so because your in-game messages are competing for space with combat spam.  Most MMOs utilize a voice talk option and don't consider it sinful.

I think it's the definition of metagaming to use OOC channels to talk to people. It also blatantly spits in the face of roleplaying in, you know, a role playing game.

Atalkez

While I certainly appreciate the shout out,  I believe my skills were over sensationalized. 

Everyone on these lists know how to survive,  after all you have to learn to not die before you can ever learn to kill.

Cynlael

Jovolo said:

Apostate: Mizik

Bard: Mizik

Blademaster: Mizik

Druid: Mizik

Jester: Mizik

Infernal: Mizik

Magi: Mizik

Monk: Mizik

Occultist: Mizik

Paladin: Mizik

Priest: Mizik

Runewarden: Mizik

Shaman: Mizik

Sentinel: Mizik

Serpent: Mizik

Sylvan: Mizik

Do you even forum? wow.

Still relevant from first page. Idk why you guys arguing.
Ernam's post was a 10/10 on the hilarity scale, though.

Bukariin

Talysin said:

Bukariin said:

Rom said:

Bukariin said:

What surprises me is that nobody uses Teamspeak, especially for group raids.

Definitely happens all the time, at least on a small scale. Having like an Eleusis voip that 10 people hop into on defense seems way too metagamey if that's what you mean.

I don't think it's "metagamey" to use an out-of-game utility to communicate where the game interface makes it difficult to do so because your in-game messages are competing for space with combat spam.  Most MMOs utilize a voice talk option and don't consider it sinful.

I think it's the definition of metagaming to use OOC channels to talk to people. It also blatantly spits in the face of roleplaying in, you know, a role playing game.

And uh, this forum doesn't do exactly that?

E: Like, there's legitimate arguments against using Teamspeak (it would offer a pretty tangible advantage to groups using it versus groups not using it since expedited communication = expedited action) but this is definitely not one of them.