Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Best in each class

123468

Comments

  • Mizik
    Mizik Member Posts: 2,244 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Talysin said:
    Yes, Dunn is the all time best bard -eyeroll-. Name one thing he's accomplished that Xinna hasn't first?
    Be objective. Fight them both side by side. You'll see. Ask them to not use minuet auto kill trick.

    Dunn doesn't make mistakes. 
    image
  • Talysin
    Talysin Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited September 2014
    Mizik said:
    Talysin said:
    Yes, Dunn is the all time best bard -eyeroll-. Name one thing he's accomplished that Xinna hasn't first?
    Be objective. Fight them both side by side. You'll see. Ask them to not use minuet auto kill trick.

    Dunn doesn't make mistakes. 
    Neither will stay around to fight. I understand though, I'm slippery and such.
  • Talysin
    Talysin Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I also think that being the best in a class should be partially based on innovation. Sure a good combatant won't make mistakes, but at what point are we taking into account people being creative with their class skills?
  • Mizik
    Mizik Member Posts: 2,244 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Talysin said:
    I also think that being the best in a class should be partially based on innovation. Sure a good combatant won't make mistakes, but at what point are we taking into account people being creative with their class skills?
    I'm not. I'm purely measuring who uses their AB skills best.
    image
    Talysin
  • Terra
    Terra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited September 2014

    Mizik isn't really in a position to judge, since he's seen Dunn a lot more than he's seen me, to be fair.

    I have really delved into the bard class a ton, and I bet if you asked a Mhaldorian who has fought Dunn, but been around me fighting a lot more, they'd say I was the best. (And I mean someone who is trying to give an objective opinion, not out of personal bias. Opinions are biased by amount of knowledge of a combatant.) I've only fought Mizik twice, and used force salve both times (and I bet Dunn has done the same against a number of people), whereas I've seen Dunn and Mizik spar tons, and Dunn probably tests all his cool tricks on Mizik.

    I don't really know if I'm better than Dunn or not since I've pretty much never seen him fight. But I know that I use leg breaks, head breaks, a multitude of Minuet forces besides force salve, herb stacks, sleeplocks, etc.

    Talysin
  • Jarrel
    Jarrel Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Mizik said:
    All Time Best:


    Infernal:         @Jarrel
    Jester:            @Jarrel
    Serpent:         @Jarrel‌

    I would probably say Tirac was a better infernal than me. His defensive game was on point and while I don't respect him for his 'pick and choose territory, opponents and time' strategy to always have an advantage, his defence was stronger than me. Carmain was easily as good as me on certain days when he was in the right mood, sadly most of the time he wasn't. Rakon and Khalaz were just rage artists who dropped the ball when the red overtook them and could not finish or recover.

    Serpent, Krian? I think it was, was as good as me, if not better but he was never around enough. I shared a lot of stuff with him because I knew he could be amazing and he could also mimic anything he saw me do, guy was beautiful to watch fight.

    Jester was a time in Achaea where combat knowledge wasn't as complete as it was today and I took advantage of that a lot. It also helped that most people did not understand what I did to lock them. Pre-Hierophant and juggling prefarar was pretty funny.

    But when I look back, I have ALWAYS sparred Mizik or one of his alts (knowingly and unknowingly) as far as I can remember back to when I had started playing. Our friendly rivalry goes back many, many years and I discovered many things thanks to him.

    Jarrel-smalljpg

    MishgulMako
  • Jarrel
    Jarrel Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Also Carmain is right, some classes are inherently weaker against others, some really good combatants mask this disadvantage really well with superior knowledge, tactics and practice but at theoretical endgame, it does exist.

    Jarrel-smalljpg

    Mishgul
  • Mizik
    Mizik Member Posts: 2,244 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    You know no one else has done touch hammer/arc?

    That one blew my mind.

    And @Jarrel bro you never fought you as Infernal. I remember one day @Tanris and I went back to back to back to back losses vs you at Mhaldor arena and us raging. And this was in my lv2 bal Raja SSJ unbeatable Blademaster pre nerf with the 1200 1.6s 50 bleed Compass slashes. Tirac eventually kills you, but takes so long with running around etc, there's no fear factor. Carmain was a defensive fortress that would likewise eventually kill you - very frustrating. Still,  no offensive pressure.

    You were an offensive nightmare. If the dsl damage didn't kill me, the vivisect/dsb fakeout using one or the other to kill was just all despairing pressure  pressure pressure.


    image
    Mishgul
  • Mizik
    Mizik Member Posts: 2,244 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think I ragequit that ringmail clad nonsense over that shit btw.
    image
  • Sobriquet
    Sobriquet Member Posts: 2,746 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Manu and Dumah were the best Jesters fighting wise, imho. I learnt a lot from both.
    image
  • Talysin
    Talysin Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Manu broke the class! Was so fun to watch back in the day.
    Ulrike
  • Jarrel
    Jarrel Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Haha Mizik, be glad you were never a victim of the vivisect/arc, I saved that for Rakon, or should I say, Ragekon!
    I know I wasn't the greatest at defensive fighting, I had the knowledge but not the patience or the massive ego required to do anything to win (i.e. fighting like that). What we had in common was that we both knew the limitations of our systems and never bothered to fix them, just load up stock, go out, turn it off if things get rough and manual. 

    One of my (I won't say best but memorable, is appropriate) fights were with Tirac as well, I always thought I would very satisfied to beat him, but it really was not. I vivisected him with a trample off a restoration apply, then he wanted to fight again (after he changed things in his system), I got him with the same thing with leprosy with diadem balance and a lucky falcon off balance. I then declined to fight again, in true Tiracesque fashion, obviously knowing that he won't fall for it again. I never took Tirac for a rager but he has this surprising, passive-aggressiveness that just showed through that day. He even said something along the lines of how he was vivisecting people with these tricks before me, I felt quite obliged (just to be an a-hole) to point out that I was vivisecting people with all sorts of things before he even made his character. He left quite abruptly after that.

    The true fun in combat was the clinical dissection of someone's systems, priorities or settings and serpent with illusions was the perfect tool for that. Replacing afflictions by getting illusions to steal that balance like making someone focus instead of giving them impatience so their system does not think they are locked then suddenly impatience pops up right before their focus balance comes back with a venom lock in place, or certain actions like dust bomb to get people to touch tree so I didn't have to give paralysis for locks, the logic required in that momentum based combat that branches into different tactics depending on what your opponent did or cured. I really enjoyed punitively exploiting mistakes.

    It was a while before I noticed how much things had changed from the older generations of players and I wonder if it was at this point that my interest started waning, I just couldn't understand why people weren't tracking afflictions/what opponents were eating/curing in their mind anymore or how fluidity in most peoples aliases/macros just weren't there anymore, pre envenoming a large combo onto weapons etc.. I am fairly curious to know where that sort of gung-ho attitude to running into combat without any idea started happening. Was it because of Vadimuses' curing systems? It would be easy to blame him but from the other point of view he also levelled the playing field significantly, making it easier for 'midbies' (i use this word without meaning to offend) to be somewhat useful instead of sitting there not knowing how to cure paralysis. He also made combat SO MUCH more accessible for everyone which gave everyone more enjoyment, is this transition into group combat/griefing as a result of these same people realising that the playing field still isn't level? Is it because of the widespread use of artefacts these days? Who knows? I know I stayed around longer than I really wanted to mostly to prove that I could still hang on as a good combatant while most people my generation just fell by the wayside or came back hunting former glory and failing.

    Jarrel-smalljpg

    MishgulMizikAelios
  • Seftin
    Seftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
    Jarrels a willy. (come back)
  • Dunn
    Dunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,324 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Xinna definitely better than me, but I would bet a lot of money on me being able to kill everyone she can. Talysin is so salty that it's hilarious. Giving Lisa Ann a run for her money, guy.

    PS Fashion run and shackle/balloon aren't innovative.


  • Talysin
    Talysin Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Dunn said:
    Xinna definitely better than me, but I would bet a lot of money on me being able to kill everyone she can. Talysin is so salty that it's hilarious. Giving Lisa Ann a run for her money, guy.

    PS Fashion run and shackle/balloon aren't innovative.
    Whoa whoa there, don't mistake my comments on your lack of talent and innovation for a vote for my own.
    Ernam
  • Cahin
    Cahin Member Posts: 1,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dunn said:
    @Cahin Actually MG2/MGE. Meant long A doors.
    @Dunn I'm DMG(badge) Let me know if you want to do the competitive sometime.

  • Stuneree
    Stuneree Member Posts: 221 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Talysin‌ Is it even possible to kill experienced people as Jester anymore? I was on and off about switching to it, but it seems like a part of Jester has been killed by how much people know how to avoid it now.


  • Jovolo
    Jovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's one of the best 1v1 classes right now. Also very nice to have in groups as an aside.
    Jhui
  • Talysin
    Talysin Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited September 2014
    Stuneree said:
    @Talysin‌ Is it even possible to kill experienced people as Jester anymore? I was on and off about switching to it, but it seems like a part of Jester has been killed by how much people know how to avoid it now.
    You'd be surprised how easily experienced players fall for the basic stuff. It just takes a lot of practice to know when/how to capitalize.

    I think Jovolo said this earlier, but its worth repeating: Don't get too complicated. Ill repeat that you should practice a lot.
  • Stuneree
    Stuneree Member Posts: 221 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Damn, just won't be able to make up my mind. Thanks for the answers, haha.


  • Rakon
    Rakon Member Posts: 267 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Jarrel said:
    but not [...] the massive ego required to do anything to win (i.e. fighting like that).
    HA. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. 
  • Talysin
    Talysin Member Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Stuneree said:
    Damn, just won't be able to make up my mind. Thanks for the answers, haha.
    Hit me up in game. With a bit of Evil vs. Good role-play, I may be talked into an arena spar with you.
  • Jovolo
    Jovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What choices are you stuck between, @Stuneree
  • Stuneree
    Stuneree Member Posts: 221 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 2014
    @Talysin‌ sounds good, I hypothesize that you'll get Apostasized >:D

    @Jovolo Apostate and Jester pretty much. Apostate isn't exactly in the greatest position so I'm not sure if I really care to keep it. Good for RP though.
    Countless people have advised that I do NOT play Jester and I trust that they know what they're talking about... But it's so appealing :(

    but this is off track... If you do wanna chat about that I'd definitely appreciate a message :open_mouth: 




  • Jovolo
    Jovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For 1v1? Jester, hands down. 

    The only area I can see Aostate being better than Jester is in general group combat with the plethora of kill methods, beckon, shadowstrike, soulspear... but it's not like Jester is bad there. Between Hangedman, Aeon, Mickey, Juggle daggers and Bombs you won't feel useless at all.
    DalranSherazad
  • Mishgul
    Mishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    jester is more useful to a group, but apostate will steal more kills, and also steal my corpses and my essence, so you should go jester so that I do not lose dragon any faster.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    StunereeSherazad
  • Mishgul
    Mishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    jester should beat apostate 1 v 1 everytime, because a jester is never in a position to have to deal with an apostates offense to survive.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    Dartega
  • Jarrel
    Jarrel Member Posts: 170 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Rakon said:
    Jarrel said:
    but not [...] the massive ego required to do anything to win (i.e. fighting like that).
    HA. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. 
    I've fought you fairly enough times, I stopped bothering when you just raged out and stopped fighting me out of choice altogether.

    Jarrel-smalljpg

  • Sobriquet
    Sobriquet Member Posts: 2,746 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Stuneree said:
    Damn, just won't be able to make up my mind. Thanks for the answers, haha.
    As a Jester, it's one of the few classes (Maybe the only one?) where you can fight the mind of the player and not just their system. There is so much to it, and many try to over complicate the class, but when something works it's awesome.

    I remember killing Nitro once with 8 dust bombs and death tarot to win a Rampage. Afterwards I was told because I wasn't using a puppet I wasn't going for a kill.. false sense of security is a key to being a decent Jester
    image
    Mizik
Sign In to Comment.