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Comments
The deadline given is this wednesday 3 hours before serenade. So hopefully not another IG year.
"Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that [everlasting] life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man."
Tsk guys, so impatient. It took an IRL year to get Targossas's houses set up.
and took it 10 before that to get Shallam revamped.
Yes, but the Garden didn't pre-anounce that the Bal'met event would finish by destroying Shallam - they did pre-announce the houses were changing and which city was first though; and there's been little in character role play about this at all...
Things will be moving soon! And yes, there will be roleplay to involve you in the changes.
..I wish I knew the operational definition of 'soon'.
I will contain my plums.
@Valnurana - I think the cat really got out of the bag with this one. Naturally there are reasons for keeping the in game discussions to a smaller group of people and these reasons were more for practicality than a lack of the Garden wanting to involve players in great decisions around their life, being yelled at by Senators that the changes were out of character and that fairly much my character had little say in what was happening has for me at least fairly much de-railed any in game role play about the changes. Please note I speak only for myself and not for anyone else (Garden, player or denizen!).
My character has heard more rumours and fielded more questions about this Renaissance from other cities' citizens or the city less than from his own leadership; and my character isn't exactly far removed from the leadership. Yes, I'm not in the Senate clan, not a Minister, Senator or House Leader but the only information I've gotten from the leadership is what I've actively asked and even then I sense they've been told not to tell too much. In fact, I know some have been told specifically just that.
Making no criticisms at all - please understand this is just a simple observation - announcing something on the in game announcement news as large as and as important as changing the structure of a whole city's organisation is important to the characters in game. Pretending that characters won't then become "in game, in role" worried is just, to put it mildly, bemusing. Yes, technically the announce boards are out of character but expecting people to pretend that they don't exist with a change such as this, in character, is a tad interesting to say the least. And most who know me - in game and out of game - know full well that when I start to describe things as "interesting" it is much like Queen Victoria's supposed quip: "We are not amused."
In game, my character has felt (as I do) totally uninvolved and powerless in this change. In game, it would be absolutely true to say that - from a rogue (houseless) and then a member of a non-Cyrenian house - there's been little to no discussion, in character, about the changes at all. They've been wholly opaque and, in a grand understatement, without the in character announcement or this thread, nothing is actually wrong.
But it is clear that something is happening and no amount of Divine or Senatorial fiat that it's out of character will stop that now. It's true that the Garden may act by fiat and guide the players into believing that there is no change afoot and in the Achaean world this is perfectly valid role play. But the people who play the game, who are immersed in the game, who have spent hours upon hours playing the game - people like me who'll stay up half an hour more to train newcomers despite having a full day's had work the next day - the people who pay for artefacts, it becomes somewhat un-fun to try and pretend that this big change is not happening in the game when we all know full well it is.
I've already said that I believe the Garden and the Senate have all of my character's and our best interests at heart. I stand by that statement. However, all the walls I've hit trying to figure this out in character have saddened me. My lasting, in character, impression of all of this will be coloured by a Senator telling me it's out of character and not up for discussion. My character and myself (i.e. the guy behind the curtain) has tried to believe that this isn't, in character true.
And clearly, out of character, it's not - well, I'm talking about it here, now and in the open. @Tecton, @Sarpis and Yourself and others have chimed in and discussed it. But here doesn't matter to my character; here is out of character and insane.
In game, Jamethiel knows something is up. He's heard too many people talk about it. He knows Cyrene will be changed, perhaps for the better, perhaps for the worse. But no-one's bothered to pro-actively tell or involve him in game with this change and, I guess he'll just resign himself to this is how things were. And when he hears anything about "open leadership" or such again, he'll take that with a grain of salt and simply write in "the appearance of" before such statements. He's gone through big changes in game before - hell, he's 314 years old and I don't play alts, ergo he and I have been around the game for 10 years and going now and as this crazy Jamethiel (OOC ) and Jamethiel (IC) pair so to speak.
But yeah - TL;DR when Jamethiel in games is convinced that the Tyrannus is involving her city in its up and coming changes more than the Senate, then there's something wrong. Or things are just normal. It's a 50-50 chance!
Well, the timeline Tecton announced (an in-game year) is still accurate, but interpreting that as a rock-solid deadline for everything being done and dusted, as some of you have, will only lead to disappointment. Once in motion, events will unfold over the course of several days at the least.
So essentially you're saying "We told you this would be finished by then, but you shouldn't interpret finished as complete"
The Garden absolutely pre-announced Houses in Targossas, and we still waited a full real-life year. I realise you weren't there for it, but this idea that it's you and only you that is being unfairly treated is ludicrous.
The admins are obviously incredibly busy trying to keep on top of this month-long event they're trying to run, as well as the countless other things they were already doing beforehand, including Cyrene's Houses. Your posts come off as sounding incredibly entitled, and while I realise it's frustrating to wait on something with no clear deadline for when it's going to happen, a little bit of understanding and appreciation of what's involved would not go amiss.
Also, none of the discussions were in-character. They were held in-game, I assume, because it's more convenient than trying to round everybody up on Skype to discuss it. Your character has an inkling that something big is about to happen - that's fine. Why not roll with that and use it as a motivation for your character to start delving into things without just asking people "Yo when are Houses changing?"
There is so much that people can be doing with this, but for the most part on forums all I see is entitled whining. Pretty disappointing.
Not at all! I'm saying the announce post did not explicitly promise everything to be wrapped up by a deadline, though clearly a lot of people interpreted it that way. I'll let Tecton weigh in on the rest here.
We would have loved to have this done weeks ago, of course, and apologise for it taking longer than anticipated!
All I can really say at this point is that things will be happening -very- soon, we had to shuffle things around based on feedback that we received, and there's many moving parts when we're heavily involved with liaising with org leaders in such depth. Sure we could have just made all of the decisions ourselves and cut out all player input, but that wouldn't have led to a favourable outcome - having the leaders be involved, providing that in-depth knowledge of specifics and acting as our "champions" on the ground is vital for this project to succeed.
We've learned a lot, so moving on to the following cities should be a much quicker process!
@Silas:
I remember the announcements for that but I'm not sure where this idea that I think it's only me (or do you mean Cyrene) that is being unfairly treated.
They're not meant to sound as though I'm being incredibly entitled; apologies to everyone if they do. Whether older, active characters in character want to feel entitled (incredibly or not) or whether they're entitled to feel entitled is really up for grabs and how that character wants to fell.
That is not what I have been doing at all. But I can really only speak for myself and observe what other characters are saying to me. It's somewhat difficult to delve into things in character when you hit a big "it's OOC stop talking about that" regardless of what angle one attempts to ask about it in character.
Again, speaking only for myself, I've been quietly trying to find things out without going totally insane in the game itself.
Whether the person behind the mask is entitled (to what we're referring to I'm not sure but I'll run with it) or the character in game is entitled is up for grabs. Fairly much, I could be working with some sort of in-game and out-of-game tyranny where neither the in character Jamethiel nor the person behind the mask have any say in what happens.
That's apparently not meant to be the case in Cyrene and it's never really been the case out-of-character either (as I pointed out above, it's obvious that the Garden's listening and changing things).
TL;DR I think we can both agree that if I didn't get slammed with the "That's OOC hammer" almost straight away, it might have been/would be easier to do something in character with this.
Extrapolating from past events, it seems likely that this event will end with Cyrene being destroyed by a combination volcano-avalanche - a 'volcalanche', if you will - to pave the way for new beginnings. Buckle up, kids.
Our Industrial/steampunk/mechanical city built into the side of the Meropis fissure is finally going to be a reality!
I feel that the admin are in a lose-lose situation here: No pre-announce before world-changing event = "MUH ROLEPLAY DOWN DA DRAIN FO NO REASON IMMA REK U MEKTON" shortly after it happens. Pre-announce world-changing event = "MUH ROLEPLAY DOWN DA DRAIN FO NO REASON IMMA REK U MEKTON" several months before it happens. (Sorry, @Tecton, too much /tg/ irrevocably reconfigured my cogitator systems to equat your name with a tabletop RPG centered around mecha)
I'm actually happy for the rest of the cities that they get the privilege of dying at my feet SHUT UP, PANTHEONpreparing/pre-planning/pre-withdrawing funds before said House changes will occur.
this the same for all cities? Would definitely make discussing changes easier
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
It makes no logical sense for the discussions to be IC. For your character to be discussing with Tecton and various admin/celani/etc about the potential big changes to their House, their potential merging, etc, that'd just be grossly out of character.
Your character should have no knowledge of this coming/happening, leadership or not, (tbh no exceptions should be allowed) so all discussions should be OOC.
So, Achaean peeps, let's sum up. You want:
Now, the timetable announced by the admin was definitely ambitious, but those timetables need to be, otherwise things drift. Players too think they have forever to respond to things and it drags. But adding in whinging about the failure to meet that timetable given all of the feedback above kind of tips the whining into the ridiculous. Pull yourselves together, people.
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
The IC- OOC barrier just failed massively on this event.
What happened for me was the announce came on the board (which is ooc), followed by many unhappy and curious people. So a house meeting came in an ic setting with ooc information where we got some info (with the reminder not to spread the info since it was ooc). Currently though, people talking about it on CT occasionally as well, and certainly in the streets.
This is especially noticable when handling newcomers. Our house pretends it knows nothing and urges them to complete all tasks etc, but I've heard people give advice on CT to hold off till the change happens. It also feels a bit like we are lieing to the newcomers at times.
In the end I suppose I have no idea why there was an ooc announce on the boards. The only thing it did was create anxiety, frustration, and made people wait. (It is not like everyone who read that announce suddenly has the ability to give input or do anything) I think just starting the roleplay for the change without a warning would have prevented most of the weirdness going on in Cyrene. I suppose the idea behind the announce was to create happy anticipation, which would've been nice, but that is not how it turned out (as far as I can see).
@Vansittart: I don't think anyone wants to have wide input in the revamp by the whole citizenship. The way they did it now with leadership only seems just fine to me. Also, it is not like preannouncing suddenly gives people a change to give their opinion etc.
The discussions -- whether they could logically be discussed IC or not -- were conducted on an OOC basis. That much is the clearest thing in character that my character has discerned. However, like it or not, knowledge of the OOC shenanigans about to happen leaked into the in character world and because it happens to be an immersive environment where some people like to role-play and others, say, like to practice combat, some to bash, others to craft and often some combination of all of these things at different or the same times.
I am trying to say that from my OOC persecutive the train bolted. The OOC nature went IC and were it just a minor change (e.g. the choosing of a new denizen singer), so what. I would have just went, yeah, whatever. But if a character gets wind somehow that there are huge changes afoot (and please, let's not try to pretend this is a small change - it's probably a big change for the better) that character might become somewhat interested by it.
And might choose to delve into it and explore what possibilities there may be.
And he/she cannot do so when no matter whether that character tries a blunt approach, a roundabout approach or a sideways approach and gets hit with the "but that's an OOC thing" stick. There's zero in character argument to that...
Perhaps, it makes no logical sense for the discussions to be IC. I'm somewhat trying to express that they went in character and that my character is interacting and reacting with other characters. I've heard various things from "I'm excited, this could be really cool" to "it's really good, but I'll try out some place new" to "I'm so apathetic about these things it's not funny." Mainly from other city's citizens; and although I sense some of the city leaders would like to say more, I've ran into the just as irrefutable "but I can't say any more because it's secret."
That said, I think I've started to repeat myself - it's possible that I understand what I'm trying to say and others just don't get my presentation of it which is entirely my fault. That's OK.
I can roll with this - at least now there's been a bit of ash and a bit of ice happening I can go back to being a somewhat eccentric reporter of the event...
This please. Yes, please. I will sacrifice the yummy holoburgers (which I have figured out a recipe for! I just need to buy the stuff and I'll post the makings!) for Artemis returning! It completely fits with Her Rp with Propasia and would settle quite a lot!
Lawd. @Tecton, just skip Cyrene (and make @Verrucht join Targossas).
Because asking to skip/blow up Cyrene is more mature than those complaining about the OOC announcement.
ETA: There ARE things happening in Cyrene. Or in the Wardens, at least. But a lot is being put on hold until the Renaissance is done and a lot of people are not signing in during the wait. It's brought the city to a standstill, which we're not used to in Cyrene as normally we have a pretty active population. It's understandable that people are going to complain a bit.
Give it a few days, the Renaissance will go through, and y'all can get back to grouching on Hashan.
ETA2: I must be tired this morning. Fix'd typos.
"Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that [everlasting] life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man."