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Comments
I wouldn't expect any city to kick out its existing members over something they have no control over. Changes like these are to preserve the integrity for the future, not to punish people for the past.
ETA: Is there something I'm missing on why Ashtan, Eleusis and Hashan need access to a Knight class?
Is grandfathering really so terrible? I too, don't want people to be forced to move, especially when their class hasn't traditionally had any sort of factional demands tied to it. On that note, I'd hate for things to ever get to be anything close to what I've heard about guilds, with people power-tripping on the basis of holding someone's class skills hostage, and one or two factional classes per city with the right sort of person handling the off button seems to be best.
As for Cyrene and Hashan, it probably really is better for those two cities to eventually get "something completely different" as factional classes, especially when you add in what Jarrod said, although Tecton says it's not happening right now.
EDIT: on the other hand, as Silas notes, is chivalry itself particularly useful or relevant to those cities?
Blocking, for the absolute minimum. The rest of what the class has for the rest of it. The knight core of Achaea is a huge source of power, and removing it from half the cities is terrible.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
And yes, grandfathering is horrible. If these decisions are made on such a global scale, they should be fully enforced with how things should be now and not just for the future. Otherwise it's just playing favourites and breeding the attitude of "Well, this doesn't apply to me so it doesn't matter". Just like if Targossas actually recalls devotion, I fully expect priests and paladins to pack up and move, or change class. Because it should affect them.
I think grandfathering ruins a lot and it's just another excuse to cling to the past and former ideals. Either remove the restrictions, or actually enforce them. Don't do this in between nonsense.
If Infernal, Paladin, and Runewarden were all city restricted, they would lose access.
A classes power -is- a good reason not to restrict it. The combat scene is balanced around the classes the factions have access to. There are counters to the OP factional things in other factional classes, removing a high source of in-room melee power from half the cities would be a terrible idea for combat balance. As for blocking, Serpents can't remain blocking if they're sniping (this is assuming a priest or apostate stays behind on a rush to beckon if blockers leave, and Serpent in room is highly ineffective without a coordinated group in larger group). Mounted blocking requires a major trait to be effective blocking as well.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
I do think grandfathering is just bs. If you're going to change things, don't do it halfway. As to factions, I actually agree with Silas about having a skillset/class individual to each city. I think it makes the cities more interesting and unique in their own ways.
Why should Cyrene/Hashan have a factional class? It doesn't make sense, especially in Cyrene's case. As outcasts from the wars, they're just a hodgepodge of refugees, so they should have a large, broad swathe of classes but no serious, centralized, major class on lock. As for Hashan, they've got a huge majority of Shamans and Alchies. Perhaps Shaman would be good as a factionalized class, but it doesn't make sense because the spirit realm isn't just a Hashani thing.
I'd love a class for Hashan that is actually based on Darkness. Seems only reasonable to me, with Devotionists for Good, Necromancers for Evil, Occultism for Chaos, etc.
I would probably change class for that. Don't see it happening any time soon though.
It's still a "faction", and people are still going to raid us (which is of course fine, within reason). We're probably never going to be *great* at repelling those raids, but throw us a bone.
This makes me want to move my rogue Occultist to their house, if I can. Sounds like there's a ton of RP involved there, and that's why I prefer Achaea to other games. The whole totem this stuff while blind is VERY creative and novel, very inventive, using mechanic of the game to continue RP.
Would love to have some more occies! Especially ones who want to RP more. Contact someone to apply when you want.
@Tecton: Over the years, the Houses have created quite a few House-related clans to handle all the different paths and whatnot in the Houses. With the merging of Houses, there are going to be quite a few clans left over and that can't really be converted for private use because they are org-owned. Could there be a one-time option to toggle the org-owned option off, or just reset all these clans to being non-org-owned and allow the cities to reset the option if they want to?
Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2
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Have you ever been to Hashan? They have 3 shaman, Eleusis has more ACTIVE shaman than Hashan.
That made me lol, keep it up. It's entertaining.
Also no, they are not a Hashani thing, the leaders of the former shaman guild and the SW house do nothing. Absolutely nothing...I was there, I have seen it I was a member of the house and everything. They don't even RP anything but being mindless at the crossroads or on their ship....Sorry to be a bitch, but yeah. I'm kind of a bitch.
If your going to force those who like the class and the RP that comes with it, I disagree.
> Still a Hashani thing. Technically mages should not be in ashtan since crystalism is all about order but it still happens.
The second part totes agree with just that Ashtan is not Chaos. Chaos RPers live there. Big difference, but yeah, fuck order.
Huh? I was just saying that bad leaders in the past doesn't mean Shaman and Dark Rituals aren't an established part of Hashani history - because they objectively are. How can you disagree with that? I'm not weighing in on whether or not Shaman's should be isolated to Hashan or not, though it's my personal opinion they should be, just that the Shaman guild being historically bad isn't a good argument against that position yo
Likely because it believes in freedom, so it gives Occultists freedom to go about their ways.
> Ashtan has long been a "supporter" of Chaos (dating back to before the Seleucarian Empire).
>
> Likely because it believes in freedom, so it gives Occultists freedom to go about their ways.
Definitely the two just aren't wholly the other. For Ashtan to ban order because it allows Chaos would be really against its freedom.
If Hashani Shaman did RP anything I would be inclined to agree with you. As far as I know, Mannimar might do a ritual every once in a while but Kybrae was the last one who really did anything. The "Dark Rituals" were mostly members of Twilights order, And I admit I was on a rant and forgot to erase Shaman Guild, I meant the SW house only in that. In my opinion Alchemist is a better fit for how Hashan is now, just because some shaman did "Dark Rituals" doesn't mean that shaman RP is about "Dark Rituals" in fact it is about Spirits which is exactly why the SW house is called the SPIRIT walker house and not the DARK RITUAL house.
Please don't limit shamans to Hashan. I believe the majority of us are not Hashani, and I think it's safe to say none of us want to be forced into a class change, nor do we have any desire to become a part of Hashan at this point (otherwise we'd already be there).
Alas, the sad thing with that argument is that it can be applied pretty much everywhere. No one wants to be forced to join a faction they did not already choose. I am sure some hashani apostates felt similarly, as do every bard not belonging to Cyrene whenever someone mentions that awful idea.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
They are more of a non-Good class, that can sit anywhere except Targossas and maybe Cyrene.
I'd much prefer a much more distinct factional class for Hashan, that goes with Hashan's identity as the City of Night.
Seriously, Mhaldor gets Necromancers and we don't (we can bit they can never defend against Mhaldor - ever).
Ashtan will probably only have Occultists.
Targossas may likely only get the devotion users.
Eleusis with forestal classes.
Etc.
We get the short end of the stick, and potentially Cyrene too.
I've been a shaman forever (literally, like 10 years now almost) and, I don't say to this brag, but I probably know more of the original intentions Firefox had for the Guild than anyone playing the class today. Given that he himself abandoned the House there because he was so discontent with its workings, it seems a poor fit. But I suppose that only matters if you care about things like history and such.
So, let's talk about the numbers! Once upon a time Hashan had the majority of shamans in the realm, but no longer. The number of shamans there has dwindled and is comprised now of mostly newbie alts who play irregularly, if at all. This is upheld by the active member demographics of the shamans clan. Most are rogues and then either Ashtani or Eleusian. Active Hashani numbers come in last.
Now alchemist is already linked to Hashan via Twilight. They are, in many ways, to Him today what shamans once were. They blend the mysitical and scientific in ways shamans never could too, which I think Hashan would find far more attractive. Given the work that's gone into the city's institute for alchemy that would seem to be a much better fit for a city of Night anyway.
Having lived through the autoclass, the fall of Guilds and rise of Houses, the sinking of Shallam, etc. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Achaea would further devalue the prior contributions, achievements, etc. of players and the in-depth organizational histories that resulted from those activities.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the House renaissance. I can see the need for it because cities have far too much intra-city conflict, but once implemented fully I don't think it will turn out to be one of Achaea's more popular game changes.
People like conflict. They like to be able to individualize their gameplay. They like their roleplay to be deep, purposeful, and connected to history. To me, the new city-states and Houses will be nothing more than thematic units overlaid with fancy House-shaped motifs.
I guess that's the price you have to pay for fake unity in a pretend land full of conflict -- But in the end, I have to wonder why anyone in any city join a House and build up its history, accomplishments, etc. again, knowing that whatever they do, no matter how loyal and consistent they are to their organization's roleplay, it could all be washed away when the realm reverts to Guilds or moves forward to restructure again in the future.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea