House Renaissance

Mishgul

social distrust is not a thing in an online game, unless in special cases as we can see from the Ranting Menace.

Wessux

Jhaeli said:

Achaea tried the soft limitations for years. To be blunt, the hard limitations work a lot better. 

Soft limitations resulted a lot of people believing that THEY were the unique "I don't have to live in the EVIL city because demons are MISUNDERSTOOD" Infernal, etc. Not to say that either of you would end up in this camp, as there are always exceptions to the idiot rule, but the hard limitations cleaned up a lot of ridiculousness while also making sense ICly. It also helps Mhaldor with population growth and so forth.

This is sooooo true. If it wasn't for this instead of the Maldaathi having me and Carmain it would just be Carmain. 

Nim

So excommunication or getting kicked out of Targossas should instantly strip you of your class too, if you're a paladin/priest? Sounds very dumb to me, unless the plan is a free 100% lesson refund.

I'm not saying newbies should be allowed to start as Mhaldorian Priests. I'm saying that fallen priest X should be able to join Y if Y's officials approve it.

Invictus

I honestly can't wait for this change, I first doubted the thought of losing Knight houses and perhaps even Knighthood itself but on the other hand, I know quite a few people(Including myself) that wouldn't let this be the case. I love the fact of teaching combat to those that want to learn combat and having them in the same house as me. Cohesion at its best! Can't wait!

Silas

I stopped reading halfway through page 3, but did anybody ever actually understand or address the point Iocun was making? It's a hugely valid one and is crucial in the long term success of a game-changing move like this.

Jules

No one listens to Iocun.  He spits when he talks.  And no, I don't think so.  We all saw something shiny.  But yes, players, and especially leaders shouldn't have a "choice".  It should be powerful forces beyond their control driving the changes. 

Jurixe

Wessux said:

Jhaeli said:

Achaea tried the soft limitations for years. To be blunt, the hard limitations work a lot better. 

Soft limitations resulted a lot of people believing that THEY were the unique "I don't have to live in the EVIL city because demons are MISUNDERSTOOD" Infernal, etc. Not to say that either of you would end up in this camp, as there are always exceptions to the idiot rule, but the hard limitations cleaned up a lot of ridiculousness while also making sense ICly. It also helps Mhaldor with population growth and so forth.

This is sooooo true. If it wasn't for this instead of the Maldaathi having me and Carmain it would just be Carmain. 

That's a pity, I thought you liked the Maldaathi. Although I'll admit it probably has seen better days at this point.

That being said, maybe the new house thing will help to address some of these issues and more, whenever we get it (hopefully not too long away!)

Achimrst

@_@ Something just came to my mind randomly like the other crap I spew at you people.

If Occultists are a factional class, does this mean Hashan isn't going to be allowed to have them anymore?

Jacen

yeah, this is a good opportunity totally factionalize Occultists now

Faur

Jacen said:

yeah, this is a good opportunity totally factionalize fictionalize Occultists now

Fixed it for you

Aerek

> @Silas said:
> I stopped reading halfway through page 3, but did anybody ever actually understand or address the point Iocun was making? It's a hugely valid one and is crucial in the long term success of a game-changing move like this.

I understood his point, but that's why I said some suspension of disbelief may be required. For example, giving up Knighthood is never something that the Wardens would voluntarily do, but because that may be coming and we know it's coming, OOC, we are fully capable of devising some reasonable justification for going along with it, for the good of the game.

We control our RP, our RP does not control us. When something like this happens, sometimes we need to invent our own character evolution, instead of demanding Admin action to do it for us. Have your character meditate on a moutaintop for a month and come back with the epiphany that Houses need to change.

I've played one character, in one House, religiously devoted to one ideal, for 10 years, and that House is about to lose that ideal as its central focus. If *I* can invent IC justification to support this, I have faith that anyone can.

Jacen

It has been my experience that some people are not willing to compromise their RP no matter the OOC circumstances. Its certainly not something you can plan on people doing.

Achimrst

Aerek said:

> @Silas said:
> I stopped reading halfway through page 3, but did anybody ever actually understand or address the point Iocun was making? It's a hugely valid one and is crucial in the long term success of a game-changing move like this.

I understood his point, but that's why I said some suspension of disbelief may be required. For example, giving up Knighthood is never something that the Wardens would voluntarily do, but because that may be coming and we know it's coming, OOC, we are fully capable of devising some reasonable justification for going along with it, for the good of the game.

We control our RP, our RP does not control us. When something like this happens, sometimes we need to invent our own character evolution, instead of demanding Admin action to do it for us. Have your character meditate on a moutaintop for a month and come back with the epiphany that Houses need to change.

I've played one character, in one House, religiously devoted to one ideal, for 10 years, and that House is about to lose that ideal as its central focus. If *I* can invent IC justification to support this, I have faith that anyone can.

I wish more people like you played this game, totally off topic so I will add.

I think Cyrene will turn out as great as it is now, and we will all eat cupcakes and be happy with their new houses.

Herenicus

When retrenchment results in more player-dense organizations, it could spread the day-to-day responsibilities of IC leadership across more shoulders. This could reduce burnout among established players and improve the experience of novices. 

Tharvis

@Tecton if you're going to freeze shard drops, are you going to freeze icon decay for the time being aswell then?

Achimrst

Jacen said:

It has been my experience that some people are not willing to compromise their RP no matter the OOC circumstances. Its certainly not something you can plan on people doing.

You need to rewrite this in caps lock and emphasize it with a giant picture of something fantastical and the same words inside. Only way people will realize this.

Madelyne

Accipiter said:

It really does feel like it is targeted directly at serpent only houses. "Oh, we are going to 3 houses per city, bye bye smallest house, oh, you could only accept one class, sorry about that"

Ty Beirdd only accepted bards for the longest time. And then they opened up to jesters, also. They're not the smallest house in Cyrene, but it's my understanding that they're still getting the axe, in a manner of speaking.  

Asmodron

> @Madelyne said:
> Accipiter said:
>
>
> It really does feel like it is targeted directly at serpent only houses. "Oh, we are going to 3 houses per city, bye bye smallest house, oh, you could only accept one class, sorry about that"
>
>
>
> Ty Beirdd only accepted bards for the longest time. And then they opened up to you JESTERS, also. They're not the smallest house in Cyrene, but it's my understanding that they're still getting the AXE, in a manner of speaking.  :\
_________

You misunderstand. You will get the bop, Jester don't use axes. Silly @madelyne.

P.S: jesters op

Tohran

I'm looking at all of this, and I don't think Eleusis will change all that much.  The three houses have always worked in concert quite nicely and all towards the same purpose. The only major thing that I can think of, was mentioned on page 1, and that's the Druid House. In reality, I don't see how the Druids will be affected that much, as their househall resides outside of Eleusis, which techincally makes it a cityless house. They have a long standing alliance with Eleusis, which works beneficially to all in the forestal community, but they do not reside INSIDE Eleusis. 

I fully play on remaining a runewarden, I rather enjoy the class, I'm looking forward to multiclass, and pondering what abilities I want to take up when that happens. 

Only thing I have is that I feel that more than just the leaders should be involved. The older citizens should also have a voice in what is going on, or at least be involved in the discussions held with the Garden.

Tecton

Tohran said:

I'm looking at all of this, and I don't think Eleusis will change all that much.  The three houses have always worked in concert quite nicely and all towards the same purpose. The only major thing that I can think of, was mentioned on page 1, and that's the Druid House. In reality, I don't see how the Druids will be affected that much, as their househall resides outside of Eleusis, which techincally makes it a cityless house. They have a long standing alliance with Eleusis, which works beneficially to all in the forestal community, but they do not reside INSIDE Eleusis. 

I fully play on remaining a runewarden, I rather enjoy the class, I'm looking forward to multiclass, and pondering what abilities I want to take up when that happens. 

Only thing I have is that I feel that more than just the leaders should be involved. The older citizens should also have a voice in what is going on, or at least be involved in the discussions held with the Garden.

The issue with having too many people involved in the the discussion is the SNR goes way down, there's 8 different conversations going at once, and very little gets done. Best thing to do is discuss it with your house leader and have them bring it up.

Jarrod

Tohran said:

I'm looking at all of this, and I don't think Eleusis will change all that much.  The three houses have always worked in concert quite nicely and all towards the same purpose. The only major thing that I can think of, was mentioned on page 1, and that's the Druid House. In reality, I don't see how the Druids will be affected that much, as their househall resides outside of Eleusis, which techincally makes it a cityless house. They have a long standing alliance with Eleusis, which works beneficially to all in the forestal community, but they do not reside INSIDE Eleusis. 

I fully play on remaining a runewarden, I rather enjoy the class, I'm looking forward to multiclass, and pondering what abilities I want to take up when that happens. 

Only thing I have is that I feel that more than just the leaders should be involved. The older citizens should also have a voice in what is going on, or at least be involved in the discussions held with the Garden.

Druid House and HHall are inside Eleusis now, it moved awhile back.

Source: I've broken in both before and after the change (FUCK DOORS).

Sarapis

Jacen said:

It has been my experience that some people are not willing to compromise their RP no matter the OOC circumstances. Its certainly not something you can plan on people doing.

It's my experience that people do it all the time when it's convenient for them OOCly.

Jacen

@Sarapis I'll leave this here as evidence to the contrary

http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/14/the-ranting-menace/p678

Silas

Aerek said:

> @Silas said:
> I stopped reading halfway through page 3, but did anybody ever actually understand or address the point Iocun was making? It's a hugely valid one and is crucial in the long term success of a game-changing move like this.

I understood his point, but that's why I said some suspension of disbelief may be required. For example, giving up Knighthood is never something that the Wardens would voluntarily do, but because that may be coming and we know it's coming, OOC, we are fully capable of devising some reasonable justification for going along with it, for the good of the game.

We control our RP, our RP does not control us. When something like this happens, sometimes we need to invent our own character evolution, instead of demanding Admin action to do it for us. Have your character meditate on a moutaintop for a month and come back with the epiphany that Houses need to change.

I've played one character, in one House, religiously devoted to one ideal, for 10 years, and that House is about to lose that ideal as its central focus. If *I* can invent IC justification to support this, I have faith that anyone can.

This is a pretty short-sighted view of it.

It's not so much about inventing IC justification to support this, it's about giving us an IC reason for it. There needs to be an end, so that people and/or characters can mourn what they had and put it behind them. If anything of the old remains, the new will be forever tainted by it, and it'll never be allowed to move forward under its own strength.

People are unavoidably sentimental, and they have invested literal years of their lives into these organisations. The cleanest break you can make is to end them completely. That's why it's been such a successful uptake in Targossas - there was nothing else that people had an attachment to, because we'd all said our text-goodbyes when we danced on Shallam's watery grave.

Without that, the new Houses - since that's what they'll effectively be, brand new Houses that need their own strong identity from the off - will forever languish in the shadows of what was.

Asmodron

> @Achimrst said:
> _@ Something just came to my mind randomly like the other crap I spew at you people.
>
> If Occultists are a factional class, does this mean Hashan isn't going to be allowed to have them anymore?

__________

That is a pretty touchy subject and has some large historical roots concerning the occultist class. The 'profession' and study of the occult was always spread out to wherever it could If there was no prejudice against them. Heck if you look into occultist history, you will see there was even occultist in shallam once before they were deemed unsafe and unholy and condemned.

If Occultists were to ever leave Hashan, there would have to be veeeery strong reasoning and basis behind it, rather than 'makimg full faction based. Sorry'.

I sincerely hope the administration takes the lore into account with such changes, and doesn't do Drastic and undefined retcons like the infamous aetolia ones. It just ruins all the flavor and makes players feel powerless.

Jarrod

There's also something to note that, if Occultism was originally able to be restricted like Devotion and Necromancy were/are, the Occultist House, which was so restrictive of its teachings, would never have let it spread to Hashan to begin with.

Asmodron said:

The 'profession' and study of the occult was always spread out to wherever it could If there was no prejudice against them.

This specifically is wrong. It was always kept within the Guild/House wherever possible, it was others who 'stole' the secrets and took them to other cities. There's a reason that an outcast Occultist exists who breaks your ties to the Occultists, and it's not because they want to spread around wherever they can.

Wei

I think Occultists fit in just fine with the Darkness.

Iocun

@Aerek: Apart from the main point @Silas stated, I also wanted to add: I'm generally fine with adjusting my RP to cater to the demands of the world. But when the admins decide to topple the world over, I do not think it is dispropriate to "demand admin action" to help us to keep roleplaying in a credible and consistent way, because the admin action is already forcibly imposed on the situation. While it is the responsibility of the players to keep their characters consistent, it is the respinsibility of the admins to keep the world consistent. Trying to RP in a non-believable world is only fun for a short while.

Achimrst

Asmodron said:

> @Achimrst said:
> _@ Something just came to my mind randomly like the other crap I spew at you people.
>
> If Occultists are a factional class, does this mean Hashan isn't going to be allowed to have them anymore?

__________

It just ruins all the flavor and makes players feel powerless.

We are already powerless, this isn't an issue as the admins will do whatever they want as long as the majority of forum goers agree with it.

Tohran

I had an idea for a darkness based class that utilized scythes. I remember sending it to Snareman a long time ago. I never kept a copy for myself, or if I did it's been deleted as of a long time ago. I gave it over before I deployed in 2010.