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  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Antonius said:
    I'll see if I can find a Sylvan to test with when I get home from work (so in about seven hours). Level three belt, bracelets, sip ring, level two health regen, perma boar, resistance, magic resistance ring, Trans Constitution, ring of the magus. Basically as tanky as it's possible to get without respeccing for sip traits and constitution over strength.
    That would be fantastic. Thank you.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    Equivalent artied Sylvan? An unartied Sylvan brook can spec Int (gets to 15), trait it (gets to 16) and then in Viridian it's +2 more so they're at 18 Int. That +2 Int from Viridian form is giving them artied damage and 18 Int is nothing to sneeze at.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,249 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Removing the int bonus just is not a good change, lol.

    Changing it to "unblockable" damage type or cutting damage type that scales with int and collar and adjusting the formula to be properly effective considering high-end reduction but not broken against Bards/Monks and then also accounting for broken limbs is probably the best way to go. They don't really need the dps on thornrend they currently have. They already get bees, hailstorm and entities to negate many a persons sip in the first place. They have very effective, supremely quick prep that is very hard to prevent unless you're like two, maybe three of seventeen classes - lowering dps and increasing their burst during breaks and heart seed is the way to go. I can't think of any reason to not go for that other than being scared of not killing people during prep.
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shit I'm just gonna propose another extreme classlead next round. Better results than I would have gotten with multiple guard clears in Eleusis.


    In the end, it's Tecton and Makarios' call on what constitutes a good change. Leave it and we'll see.


  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,814 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    with Ring of Magus, Priest magic resistance, MR enchantment, trans constitution, algiz, I can reduce Lothiac's thornrend damage to about 1k and Alrena's lvl 1 collar thornrend to about 850-900. For reference, I have 4782 health with lvl 2 belt, bracelet and sip ring. That's a lot of investment on my part, though, so take it as you will.
    Valdus
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Jovolo said:
    Removing the int bonus just is not a good change, lol. Changing it to "unblockable" damage type or cutting damage type that scales with int and collar and adjusting the formula to be properly effective considering high-end reduction but not broken against Bards/Monks and then also accounting for broken limbs is probably the best way to go. They don't really need the dps on thornrend they currently have. They already get bees, hailstorm and entities to negate many a persons sip in the first place. They have very effective, supremely quick prep that is very hard to prevent unless you're like two, maybe three of seventeen classes - lowering dps and increasing their burst during breaks and heart seed is the way to go. I can't think of any reason to not go for that other than being scared of not killing people during prep.
    After further thought, I'm now of the strong opinion that simply changing the damage type would be enough of a change. I don't feel that the initial damage of the Thornrend shouldn't be a viable tactic in and of itself. I also feel that people complain more about Burst far more than sustained damage over time.

    I also don't feel that extensive work to make it equal against classes tanky to Cutting (Knights etc) and less cutting resistant (Bard/Monk) is necessary. Those classes have the skills to survive/mitigate/avoid damage. It's also okay for the game to have classes that are 'squishier' than others.

    So, yeah. Cutting damage boosted by Int and Collars. And that's even IF Thornrend needs a change. It seems like all these complaints are from people who have no defense versus Magic.


    I also think Heartseed should do more damage when curing with two broken legs. As it is, it's pretty low.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I have max level sip/regen + ring of magus and trans constitution and Lothiac style damage is still a bit absurd to fight against. In contrast, I can tank artie magi without needing to leave the room. Pretty sure Lothiac managed to kill me off straight thornrends in one of our fights after a leg broke. 
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,814 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Could be worse Rangor... Magi just have damage and we can't even hold people still.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,081 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Im wondering why we have  3 pages of discussion over 1 sylvan report....

    Move along people, topic is getting stale.
    SenaAchimrst
  • KrossKross Member Posts: 779
    Aegoth said:
    Could be worse Rangor... Magi just have damage and we can't even hold people still.
    Freeze ground, icewall, tentacle tattoo, instant limb cripple staff strikes not enough for you to keep someone put? Granted, it's no piety/tentacles/gravehands but you're better off than monks :(
  • ZukoZuko Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    If we lose hunting runes, I may cry
    Valdus
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sooo... Freezepound anyone?
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    YaeEldJhuiAsmodron
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,814 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kross said:
    Aegoth said:
    Could be worse Rangor... Magi just have damage and we can't even hold people still.
    Freeze ground, icewall, tentacle tattoo, instant limb cripple staff strikes not enough for you to keep someone put? Granted, it's no piety/tentacles/gravehands but you're better off than monks :(
    If it were enough, people wouldn't have a lulzy ez time escaping mages. It's a pretty common consensus that mages are very very easy to escape if you do even a modicum of prep, so sadly I shall have to say that it's not enough. Mages also can't do 5k+ damage in one hit/combo :P
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,281 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    Kross said:
    Aegoth said:
    Could be worse Rangor... Magi just have damage and we can't even hold people still.
    Freeze ground, icewall, tentacle tattoo, instant limb cripple staff strikes not enough for you to keep someone put? Granted, it's no piety/tentacles/gravehands but you're better off than monks :(
    If it were enough, people wouldn't have a lulzy ez time escaping mages. It's a pretty common consensus that mages are very very easy to escape if you do even a modicum of prep, so sadly I shall have to say that it's not enough. Mages also can't do 5k+ damage in one hit/combo :P
    You just need more arties.

    Holo at 10, hailstorm, trigger holo to hammer.
    image
    Aegoth
  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Rangor said:
    Aegoth said:
    Kross said:
    Aegoth said:
    Could be worse Rangor... Magi just have damage and we can't even hold people still.
    Freeze ground, icewall, tentacle tattoo, instant limb cripple staff strikes not enough for you to keep someone put? Granted, it's no piety/tentacles/gravehands but you're better off than monks :(
    If it were enough, people wouldn't have a lulzy ez time escaping mages. It's a pretty common consensus that mages are very very easy to escape if you do even a modicum of prep, so sadly I shall have to say that it's not enough. Mages also can't do 5k+ damage in one hit/combo :P
    You just need more arties.

    Holo at 10, hailstorm, trigger holo to hammer.
    Wat. When did they take away retardation?
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,281 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    plz, no one dies to retardation anymore.
    image
  • EdorenEdoren Member Posts: 21 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    @Rangor i beg to differ. :P ...Oh wait we're talking about the vibe?
    Feral
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    No one has mentioned this so maybe I'm crazy and misinformed, but resistances top out at 25%ish. So saying constitution, resistance ring, resistance skill, and priest blessing is a little pointless because after the ring you aren't getting much more.

    Again I could be wrong but whatever. Also some more numbers. With algiz, resistance, and venom. They have 18 int and a diadem.

    1300 targetted thornrend 2.2 seconds
    500-600 bees 3ish seconds
    ef 200-300 4ish seconds.

    At 4440hp
    Lvl 1 ring +human I'm sipping for 650-900 4 seconds
    Moss at 350 six seconds
    Boar 220 not sure but around 6 seconds

    In 20 seconds I'm taking an average of 16250 damage and only healing an average of 6280. That's 10000 damage extra! And in that time they prepped two limbs and are working on the third.

    This is in fact a little ridiculous. Just under 4 times my health in the time it takes them to setup two limbs. A little over twice my health over what I can heal in that time. Something needs to be done, what I don't know, but something.

    P.s. Some of the times may be a little off, but that's a decent little outline so people have some perspective.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    From various threads, I'm pretty sure resistance isn't capped at 25%.

    However, resistance only affects 50% of the total damage, so '100%' resistance means half damage taken.

    This could be wrong, but I feel like this has been stated a few times.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I feel I remember reading @Sena math on the subject but I can't find it.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I've never heard of resistances having a cap, and if there is one, 25% seems very unlikely.

    Resistances apply to the full damage. If you're hit by an attack that does 1000 damage, and you have algiz (10% resistance), you'll take 900 damage (or around 910 damage with nimble/quick-witted, since they reduce resistances by 10%, making algiz 9%). It's armour that only applies to part of the damage, but it's not generally 50% (it's different for each attack).
    Jovolo
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    @Wessux did that Sylvan have any further arties? Almost 30% damage is... too much when you have algiz and magic resistance. I remember an unartied sylvan doing no more than 25% damage, and I had no runes or magic resistance as magi. (too lazy to enchant)
    image
    Exelethril
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    No further arties.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,281 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @wessux double epteth+nairat rune = 0  thornrends ever.
    image
    Alrena
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sena said:

    I've never heard of resistances having a cap, and if there is one, 25% seems very unlikely.

    Resistances apply to the full damage. If you're hit by an attack that does 1000 damage, and you have algiz (10% resistance), you'll take 900 damage (or around 910 damage with nimble/quick-witted, since they reduce resistances by 10%, making algiz 9%). It's armour that only applies to part of the damage, but it's not generally 50% (it's different for each attack).

    I feel like this was talked about when the resistance minor traits were around. But hell, like I said could be crazy.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Rangor said:

    @wessux double epteth+nairat rune = 0  thornrends ever.

    I like people to have fun, and want to fight me again. I don't want them to just get bored and heartstop.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    Arador
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    Wessux said:
    @wessux double epteth+nairat rune = 0  thornrends ever.
    I like people to have fun, and want to fight me again. I don't want them to just get bored and heartstop.
    Sticking Para from time to time will also slow a sylvan down. Knights honestly should not have any problem with Sylvans. I'm still not entirely sure your numbers are correct. You have the resistance ability, more health, algiz rune and I have a lvl 1 collar and 18 int. Still on @Aegoth, who has similar health to you, I do the same damage, though you have more resistances to magic damage than he had, and I had a boosting artie. I'm just confused, really.
    image
    ExelethrilIsaiah
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