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Comments
Viva la Bluef.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
It seems to me that with the changes in damage types for thornrends, people are now classleading/approving a change back from their current state merely because magic resistance is by far less common then cutting or blunt - which I find puzzling. Certainly, if a change is made by the administration, it is up to the playerbase to adapt to the changes, not to use classleads to change it back into a state more suitable for them. I would say it is a problem where even if one adapts defensively to the new thornrend one would have difficulty surviving - but that's not actually the case, as I can verify too. Trans constitution, the resistance enchantment, and the ring of Magus may be more difficult to obtain in general, but is also generally attainable - as opposed to cutting/blunt, where certain classes are superior simply due to abilities/armour/shields, which are unachievable by other classes. Of course, there is also the resistance ability only available to a select few classes, but the prior three already gives you what you need, bar defensively playing every now and then - which is an obvious consequence of fighting artied classes that utilize damage in some form or another.
Ah well. It'd be nice if they had a variety of mechanical ways to obtain burst damage from limb breaks, though, in replacement of a thornrend nerf. I'm not sure if it's needed. Just fascinating.
As to the general topic of sylvan damage, I don't think it's just that the damage is ridiculous on the higher end, it's that it's ridiculous on the higher end WHILE doing 4-5s of salve balance every 10 seconds, also not being stopped by rebounding/parry, and then with bees/wildgrowth/freeze ground and the potential to be instakilled off limb breaks. And that's not even getting into sylvan defence, which imo is one of the best in the game (barrier/reflect/sandling/grove return etc). I actually find artied magi damage more threatening, but you can just walk away from a magi and they have to focus in vibes or fight without them. Against a sylvan you're eating wildgrowth/frozen ground just to get away, and then 99% of the time they lose nothing if just they follow you and you're back at square one.
I'd be all for a way of making it more strategic (greatly increase the amount of damage cured heartseed with broken limbs does, for instance) and toning down base thornrend a bit.
Viva la Bluef.
Sylvan defense isn't particularly relevant here. I won't deny its strength, but as we're regarding the issue of how artied thornrends may be too strong, their defensive capabilities aren't important - or more, they are important in their ability to turtle and slow-prep, but slow-prep also naturally means that their innate damage from thornrends in itself is slowed, and so thornrend damage in turn shouldn't be an issue (as for whether you think the Sylvan's ability to slow-prep is a problem, that's different). Thornrends aren't at all difficult to slow down - while they have one of the faster preps and solid damage, they are inferior to classes like BMs/fast Knights/Sentinels, that have the innate advantage of being a prep class that can actively hinder during their prep. Certainly though, I'd agree that running away from a Sylvan isn't as simple as walking - but it's not that difficult, either. Wildgrowth is simple enough to get away from, and I've never fought a Sylvan and allowed them to keep frozen ground during the fight - that's highly detrimental for you if you do plan on running.
To be frank, I haven't seen anyone die to artied Sylvan damage who are defensively specced (constitution, ring of magus, magic resistance ring, possibly resistance, sip ring) short of a holocaust setup, and without playing defensively at proper moments (e.g fly, tumble behind an obstruction while curing heartseed, etc.). Perhaps if I see logs I may change my opinion.
Does SoA absorb Thornrend? If so, add it to the other ways to mitigate Thornrend damage that Iakimen listed.
Viva la Bluef.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Still, I'm not surprised that zero mitigation versus Magic results in a strong Thornrend. The damage type is the issue, rather than the damage itself.
Viva la Bluef.
Viva la Bluef.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
Viva la Bluef.
Changing it to "unblockable" damage type or cutting damage type that scales with int and collar and adjusting the formula to be properly effective considering high-end reduction but not broken against Bards/Monks and then also accounting for broken limbs is probably the best way to go. They don't really need the dps on thornrend they currently have. They already get bees, hailstorm and entities to negate many a persons sip in the first place. They have very effective, supremely quick prep that is very hard to prevent unless you're like two, maybe three of seventeen classes - lowering dps and increasing their burst during breaks and heart seed is the way to go. I can't think of any reason to not go for that other than being scared of not killing people during prep.
In the end, it's Tecton and Makarios' call on what constitutes a good change. Leave it and we'll see.