Quick Questions

Zeon

Druids/Sentinels/Sylvans are aligned classes and don't belong in factions that aren't of their alignment (Nature). It's expected that outsiders might not realize this since the forestal faction does little to promote their ideology publicly. As the faction shifts from cuddly naked tree huggers towards tribal Nature worshippers looking to reclaim city land in the name of Nature™, hopefully you'll stop feeling entitled to our factionally aligned classes.

Sidonia

But you get three.

Jonners

Zeon said:

Druids/Sentinels/Sylvans are aligned classes and don't belong in factions that aren't of their alignment (Nature). It's expected that outsiders might not realize this since the forestal faction does little to promote their ideology publicly. As the faction shifts from cuddly naked tree huggers towards tribal Nature worshippers looking to reclaim city land in the name of Nature™, hopefully you'll stop feeling entitled to our factionally aligned classes.

If that were true there wouldn't have been a 'choice' at all and the admins would have just hard pushed it over everyone but Eleusis. Cyrene had a 'choice', they just chose the shiny new thing rather than the centuries of history they had with Nature to provide a different perspective.

Kyrra

Want to hear @Artemis' opinion on Cyrene and Nature after living under cobblestones for how long?

Synbios

Valdus said:

Right. This topic was started by my wondering what the design reasoning behind enforcing an either or choice. I'm not arguing against it.

My guess is that once Nature starts to consolidate its power and focus its ideology, it will begin to expect the same of all those that wield its power. Naturally, a conflict of interest will arise when the associated nature-based Gods will begin to order all its forestals to do things that are counter to their current city's rules. 

To make a long story short: One reason why Alchemists exist is supposed to be so that you get curatives even when you're opposed and enemied to Nature.

Jonners

~

Jonners

Synbios said:

To make a long story short: One reason why Alchemists exist is supposed to be so that you get curatives even when you're opposed and enemied to Nature.

I'm all for that. That doesn't mean forestals should be completely hooped for roleplay opportunities outside of Eleusis and Orders.

Jonners

Synbios said:

Valdus said:

Right. This topic was started by my wondering what the design reasoning behind enforcing an either or choice. I'm not arguing against it.

My guess is that once Nature starts to consolidate its power and focus its ideology, it will begin to expect the same of all those that wield its power. Naturally, a conflict of interest will arise when the associated nature-based Gods will begin to order all its forestals to do things that are counter to their current city's rules. 

To make a long story short: One reason why Alchemists exist is supposed to be so that you get curatives even when you're opposed and enemied to Nature.

Short of some crazy mandate to destroy our own cities it'll never happen. Oakstone is about defence and will always be so. Being an enemy of Gaia, while crappy for a forestal, doesn't have the same connotation. Also, why do we get restrictions like this while Alchemists get nothing because they use 'science'?

Melodie

Actually, I'm pretty sure the whole "Nature will reclaim everything, including the cities" is -exactly the philosophy Gaia is pushing/representing. Of course it won't "happen", just like Oblivion will never "happen", or all the land being swept away by the sea, etc. That doesn't mean that she won't expect more from forestals in the future in relation to their loyalty to Nature.

It'll take some time to get everyone in Eleusis on the same page, but that's to be expected. Things have been loose for a long time, and re-focusing takes careful planning, lots of effort, and endless patience.

Also, I'm pretty sure forestals do have some consequences if the wrongful actions get serious enough. I don't want to give their name away, since it's something I found out IC, but there's at least one who has been punished. Never underestimate a Divine's creativity.

I'm staying out of the rest of this argument - just wanted to state what I know on that bit of it.

Jonners

Jonners said:

Kyrra said:

Want to hear @Artemis' opinion on Cyrene and Nature after living under cobblestones for how long?

~

Absolutely. I'd love to hear how one DEAD Nature Divine thinks of us. Even when she was alive during this event that was about the weakest argument out there, right next to we need to give the Alchemists another home.

Edit- Damned quotes.

More seriously. So we had a bad relationship with one minor Nature deity. What city doesn't? What city, other than Eleusis, wasn't built over some large stretch of nature, whether it be a forest or two, a valley, an island, or whatever. That doesn't mean we should have just turned our backs on all the positive history the city had with Nature other than Artemis. Eleusis and Cyrene used to be very close and that has suffered since this from what I've seen.

Out of all the cities Cyrene had the best relationship with Eleusis and had real places for Sylvans and Druids that make sense in the city and Sentinels could have easily been made more welcome.

Don't get me wrong, I like alchemists in general. The concept of them is great and they add something important to the game. I just think it's complete horse hockey that Achaea foozled over newb forestals so hard.

Melodie

I wouldn't call Artemis minor. She is the representation of Nature's wrath. Moreover, the forest that the refugees destroyed when making the original village before Cyrene became a proper city - that forest spirit (whose name I cannot recall) is what eventually was born into Artemis. Basically everyone (including us) expected there to be some serious shit between Artemis and Cyrene, but it never got very major. None of us know why, but so it goes.

Artemis is also not dead. Just dormant.

I'm not going to say Cyrene should be against Nature, because of course that doesn't make sense, but Cyrene's ancestors DID murder Artemis' forest spirit, and we DID have all those crazy treekin rampaging through the streets. The bad blood history is there - it just never took off.

Cyrene did a referendum at the introduction of Alchemists, and it was a -huge-, huge debate, both in newsboards and on the city channel. But the referendum was in favor for Alchemists, and the decision is binding. There's no real way to go back, now.

Jonners

I know. I just think it was stupid and the admin purposefully pushed alchemy for everyone but Eleusis. The choice could have been between a mime class and forestals and the choice would have been mimes because they're shiny and new, despite what everyone said.

P.S.- Mime's are obviously the most hideous example possible and would never be chosen by anyone, but my point remains.

P.P.S.- Ok she's not dead, my pantheon is all screwed up because I didn't witness the Bal'met event.

P.P.P.S- The blood history is there with all the cities, ours just had a great backstory. How many cities can claim good ties to Nature.. Us and Shallam and Shallam was iffy.

Kyrra

HELP GODS has a pretty clear listing of which Divine are still around, even if not currently active.

Mishgul

Gold is sartans colour therefore alchemists are evil and pigeons are agents of babel. Hail neroes.

Chryenth

Is this Quick Questions or Ranting? I know I clicked on both.

Valdus

Personally I don't see why there can't be both types of Classes in a city like Cyrene. I think roleplay would be better and more choices on where your character can live is always a good thing in my view. However, the decision was made and Alchemists are in. If @Sarapis wants to allow Alchemists and Forestals in the same city, awesome. If he doesn't, oh well. Life will go on and people will just have to make do being a citizen of Eleusis if they want to be a Sentinal, Sylvan or Druid.

I'm sorry my original question caused a bit of a  derailing. Let us go back to questions now. I'll start.

The maximum level of regeneration is three. Okay. Is boar tattoo part of this, or is it on its own separate type of regen?

Jovolo

If both classes were allowed, it wouldn't make much sense as to why everyone else couldn't do the same thing. The best way (At least, that the admin felt) to disallow everyone just having all concoctions/curatives classes immediately available was to create a "Rivalry" between the two. Therefore, Alchemists that taught everybody the skills initially would refuse to be in a faction with Forestal classes. 

It's a better thing, imo. It gives more of an identity to Eleusis in that not everyone can just own Nature classes. Keep the Forestal classes in the Forest, Occultic classes in the Chaos faction, Devotion in Targ, Necromancy in Mhaldor, and so on.

Eld

Valdus said:

Personally I don't see why there can't be both types of Classes in a city like Cyrene. I think roleplay would be better and more choices on where your character can live is always a good thing in my view. However, the decision was made and Alchemists are in. If @Sarapis wants to allow Alchemists and Forestals in the same city, awesome. If he doesn't, oh well. Life will go on and people will just have to make do being a citizen of Eleusis if they want to be a Sentinal, Sylvan or Druid.

I'm sorry my original question caused a bit of a  derailing. Let us go back to questions now. I'll start.

The maximum level of regeneration is three. Okay. Is boar tattoo part of this, or is it on its own separate type of regen?

From HELP REGEN

HEALTH REGENERATION

-------------------

What Always Affects Health Regen

--------------------------------

alchemy astronomy

a bard's continuo

being in a health regen room

boar tattoo

boost and regeneration abilities

crystalism harmony

grove harmony

grove vigour

sleeping

a dreamcatcher, while sleeping

uruz rune

What Affects Health Regen Within Limits

---------------------------------------

regen ring:                  1-2 levels

berkana rune:                  1 level

trollskin armour(*):           2 levels

The total of levels that will affect health regen is 3. Having a total of

levels beyond 3 is possible, but will not increase health regeneration rates.

No more than one regen ring (the best, if more than one is worn) will grant any

regen for the wearer.

The limits apply to regen rings, berkana, and trollskin armour. Anything listed in "What always affects health regen" is unaffected by the 3-level limit. Boar is, iirc, equivalent to level 2 regen (5% health per 10 seconds).

Sylvance

Jovolo said:

If both classes were allowed, it wouldn't make much sense as to why everyone else couldn't do the same thing. The best way (At least, that the admin felt) to disallow everyone just having all concoctions/curatives classes immediately available was to create a "Rivalry" between the two. Therefore, Alchemists that taught everybody the skills initially would refuse to be in a faction with Forestal classes. 

It's a better thing, imo. It gives more of an identity to Eleusis in that not everyone can just own Nature classes. Keep the Forestal classes in the Forest, Occultic classes in the Chaos faction, Devotion in Targ, Necromancy in Mhaldor, and so on.

And Hashan gets the Merchants, right?

Valdus

Eld said:

Valdus said:

Personally I don't see why there can't be both types of Classes in a city like Cyrene. I think roleplay would be better and more choices on where your character can live is always a good thing in my view. However, the decision was made and Alchemists are in. If @Sarapis wants to allow Alchemists and Forestals in the same city, awesome. If he doesn't, oh well. Life will go on and people will just have to make do being a citizen of Eleusis if they want to be a Sentinal, Sylvan or Druid.

I'm sorry my original question caused a bit of a  derailing. Let us go back to questions now. I'll start.

The maximum level of regeneration is three. Okay. Is boar tattoo part of this, or is it on its own separate type of regen?

From HELP REGEN

<snip>

The limits apply to regen rings, berkana, and trollskin armour. Anything listed in "What always affects health regen" is unaffected by the 3-level limit. Boar is, iirc, equivalent to level 2 regen (5% health per 10 seconds).

So that means I could have a Level 2 regen ring, a Berkana rune for the level 3 limit, along with a Boar also. Splendid, thank you very much.

Mizik

RE: Class restrictions:

Sentinel  

=((

Sena

Basically, if you aren't an occultist (transmog regen mutations count towards the limits) and don't have the old trollskin armour, you never have to worry about the health or mana regeneration limits.

Sena

Can anyone with captain permissions remove a ship from drydock, or is that something only the owner can do?

Lianca

Owner only, my experience tells me.

Melodie

Both owners and captains can take a ship from drydock.

Sena

So if the owner is dormant, perhaps permanently, there's no way to get it back if I should ever forget to re-dock it in time?

Edit: Thanks.

Shunsui

So I've got 720 lessons to dump into something and I can't quite decide what.

Assuming that's enough lessons to learn riding from inept to mountjump (I have no idea if it is), would it be better to learn riding, or take avoidance from virt to mythical?

Jonners

Avoidance is more useful than riding in most scenarios in my opinion.

Sena

I don't think 720 will get you mountjump, but it should get you pretty close. Definitely to gallop, maybe to warhorse.

Kanaria

For a mage, would 16 INT/12 CON serve be better than 14 INT/14 CON? Is there a large enough increase in damage to justify not having 14 CON?