Quick Questions

Rispok

Ephram said:

As an Atavian blademaster with a level 1 belt these are my current stats:

Ephram Sparrow, Cherished Horai (male Atavian Exemplar)
You are level 93 (3rd Order of the Hyperphysical) and 35.6% of the way to the
next level.
Health: 4715/4715  Mana: 3741/3741
Endurance: 21790/21790  Willpower: 17605/17605
Strength: 13  Dexterity: 13  Constitution: 14  Intelligence: 11

And traits:

Racial:   Winged
Level 20: Nimble                  
Level 30: Health weaver           
Level 40: Triage                  
Level 50: Empty
Level 60: Empty
Level 70: Empty
Level 80: Empty
Level 90: Empty

Do I go for robust or improved physique as a major trait? For bashing?

And any other suggestions would be welcome.

Improved physique

Sena

How fast do falcons attack (at max stats), what's the chance of knocking off balance, and how long is the balance loss?

Mizik

Ephram said:

As an Atavian blademaster with a level 1 belt these are my current stats:

Ephram Sparrow, Cherished Horai (male Atavian Exemplar)
You are level 93 (3rd Order of the Hyperphysical) and 35.6% of the way to the
next level.
Health: 4715/4715  Mana: 3741/3741
Endurance: 21790/21790  Willpower: 17605/17605
Strength: 13  Dexterity: 13  Constitution: 14  Intelligence: 11

And traits:

Racial:   Winged
Level 20: Nimble                  
Level 30: Health weaver           
Level 40: Triage                  
Level 50: Empty
Level 60: Empty
Level 70: Empty
Level 80: Empty
Level 90: Empty

Do I go for robust or improved physique as a major trait? For bashing?

And any other suggestions would be welcome.

Oh, God, no! No strength, it's useless!

Go Reinforced or Robust! Tanking all day, especially if you're just bashing! And +Health sip before any of that!

Antonius

Sena said:

How fast do falcons attack (at max stats), what's the chance of knocking off balance, and how long is the balance loss?

At max stats I was getting ~3.1 seconds between attack messages. Accounting for latency, I'd say it's 3 seconds attack speed at max speed. Not a huge data set, but I had 29 attacks out of 125 that knocked off balance - 1/4 chance to knock off balance sounds about right. Balance loss, with nimble, was ~1.1 seconds.

Rispok

Oops. I didn't mean improved physique. I meant the +con one, if that's robust. I haven't really looked at traits since they came out.

Nim

@Mizik/@Ephram: I swear I did the math, and found that the sip bonus from +1 con is better than the sip bonus from +5% sip bonus up after a certain point, depending on your con. Unless your con is 17, this point is lower than level 50. If you have 17 con, it happens at level 74, while as 18 con takes until lv185 for con to beat out +5% sip bonus. Of course, all this math assumes forum-acquired equations on sipping are correct (I haven't confirmed them very thoroughly), and it's only better against damage that doesn't scale with health, but I'm told that bashing is largely devoid of scaling damage.

Eld

At level 92, an extra point of con should boost your average sip by just over 5%, by my math, in addition to the health bonus; even at level 50 with 14 con, it should be like 4.5%. More health is less useful for combat than bashing, because of the health scaling for attacks, but 5% sip bonus from added con is just as good as from receptive body. Pretty sure +1 con is pretty much always going to be better than receptive body for pure bashing.

Cahin

The question is if you are going to hunting exclusively or ever participating in pvp. I generally advise the sip bonus trait as the first pickup in the defensive traits department due to the fact that max health increase also increases damage to yourself.  If you're Cyrenian or Hashani and can manage to abstain from pvp altogether and just want to hunt, go for the constitution, but if you could ever see yourself pvping (in any form) I would recommend the health sip.

Mizik

Wait, wait, wait. +Con gives me more +sip than +sip? You serious?

I'd rather have the extra health to survive the one shots, anyway. Everyone makes +Sip to be the ultimate thing to always go for.

Eld

Cahin said:

The question is if you are going to hunting exclusively or ever participating in pvp. I generally advise the sip bonus trait as the first pickup in the defensive traits department due to the fact that max health increase also increases damage to yourself.  If you're Cyrenian or Hashani and can manage to abstain from pvp altogether and just want to hunt, go for the constitution, but if you could ever see yourself pvping (in any form) I would recommend the health sip.

The thing is, you're choosing between a 5% health sip and a 5% health sip + 300 extra health. Unless you're saying that extra health is a net disadvantage a significant fraction of the time, which I doubt, I don't see why you'd take receptive body over robust. But we've had this discussion earlier in this thread, not sure we need to rehash it here.

Katzchen

@Mizik are you confusing traits with artefacts? Sip ring is 10% for 500 credits, 20% for 1000, while con belt is +1 for 400, +2 for 1000. Traits are 5% sip vs +1 con, so while it's a fight there, with the artefacts everyone suggests, the sip ring is clearly superior.

Eld

No, he's talking about traits, not arties. Based on the commonly quoted formula for average health sip of 70+maxhealth*.15, and for health of 300+3*level*con+4*level (this one is correct up to level 100, I haven't tested the sip in detail) , yes, +1 con is a slightly bigger sip bonus than receptive body in most cases. Unless I'm much worse at math than I think I am.

Sena

Mizik said:

Wait, wait, wait. +Con gives me more +sip than +sip? You serious?

I'd rather have the extra health to survive the one shots, anyway. Everyone makes +Sip to be the ultimate thing to always go for.

Let's say you're level 80 with 14 con. Your average sip is 667.
A 5% sip bonus increases your average sip by 33, to 700.
+1 con increases your health by 240, and thus increases your average sip by 36, to 703. The higher health also increases other regen, like boar and berkana.

It's not that simple in PvP (damage usually scales with max health, you can be hindered from sipping, etc.), but for bashing +con is almost always better.

Katzchen

I meant was he confusing which one people always talked up. It seems strange people would talk up sip trait if it's not quite as good. Especially when there's always people like Sena who jump in and give you the math.

Iocun

Also keep in mind that higher health not only affects sip, but also moss/potash and regeneration, in contrast to a straight sip bonus. As long as we're dealing with attacks that don't scale based on max health, investing in max health is always a good thing.

Katzchen said:

I meant was he confusing which one people always talked up. It seems strange people would talk up sip trait if it's not quite as good. Especially when there's always people like Sena who jump in and give you the math.

It is good, it's just more PvP-oriented.

Cahin

Eld said:

Cahin said:

The question is if you are going to hunting exclusively or ever participating in pvp. I generally advise the sip bonus trait as the first pickup in the defensive traits department due to the fact that max health increase also increases damage to yourself.  If you're Cyrenian or Hashani and can manage to abstain from pvp altogether and just want to hunt, go for the constitution, but if you could ever see yourself pvping (in any form) I would recommend the health sip.

The thing is, you're choosing between a 5% health sip and a 5% health sip + 300 extra health. Unless you're saying that extra health is a net disadvantage a significant fraction of the time, which I doubt, I don't see why you'd take receptive body over robust. But we've had this discussion earlier in this thread, not sure we need to rehash it here.

I have been told by several credible combatants that ~4500-4600 health is the desired health for greatest sip over damage taken. Further isolating yourself from this range would be believed to have disadvantageous effect.  You're only taking into account the health sip.  Based on this I have given my input, which I believe to be correct.

Iocun

What...? How do people come up with something like that? There isn't any specific amount of health that gives the greatest sip over damage taken. It all comes down to how strongly an attack is based on max health and how large its base damage is, compared to how much the base amount in the sip formula weighs in comparison to what you can do to increase the max-hp-dependent amount of it (moss bonuses, regeneration). Naming a range of 4500-4600 health as an "optimum" seems totally arbitrary and meaningless to me.

(Basically, the more effects you have that increase the weight of the max-hp-dependent part of your total hp recovery per second, the more useful having more max health becomes to you, even for relatively strongly max-health dependent attacks. Once you have some bonuses to moss and regeneration, having more health is almost always better, with the exception of a very few attacks you might be facing, such as enfeeble/kai choke, which are 100% max health dependent, which your hp recovery never will be due to the fixed base in the sipping formula.)

Cahin

But Iocun, Carmain would not lie to me so your post is obviously invalid.

Iocun

Who knows, maybe I'm just misunderstanding something here, but as far as I'm aware all damage formulas are linear formulas consisting of a constant and a factor of maxhp, and all healing formulas are linear formulas consisting of a constant and a factor of maxhp. As long as the maxhp factor of the total healing formula is greater than the maxhp factor of all the formulas for the damages you are taking in a fight, having more max hp is a good thing, and in the opposite case, having less hp is a good thing. There wouldn't be any maximas or minimas.

However, now that I'm considering it further, there can still be "zones" of max health that are preferable when you wish to be able to survive certain specific attacks at different times, with a specific set of defensive bonuses (to sip, moss, regeneration). Assuming you heal (a + b*maxhealth) per second and want to be able to survive both an attack that does a constant "c" damage per second (c>a) and one that does d*maxhealth damage per second (with d>b), you would want to optimize your max health in such a way that your healing per second is at least c, without getting your maxhealth above the point where you couldn't keep up with the second attack anymore. This would indeed give you a certain max health range that may fulfill both conditions, while a max health below or above that would be bad for one of the cases.

However, this range depends so much on those two damage sources in question and only applies if they appear on separate occasions, that it would seem almost impossible to give a meaningful range for combat in general, even less so since, as mentioned, it depends on all your modifications to your health recovery formulas, as well as modifications to the damage formulas (i.e. armour).

Sena

I've been playing around with different attack/health numbers, just looking at simple damage/time vs healing/time, and it looks like 5% sip and +1 con are pretty close in most cases, when you add moss and boar. The higher your health, the better +sip is compared to +con (so receptive body can be better than robust in PvP for high-level characters who already have good con). And for artefacts, a level 1 sip ring will usually beat +1 con in this simplified model. I'm too tired to be very confident in my math at the moment though, and in an actual fight there are other factors to consider than just damage vs healing (like surviving burst damage where you don't get a chance to heal, and things that can prevent you from sipping like anorexia, aeon/retardation, lag), so you can probably just ignore this post.

Rom

Insignificant question, but what is it that causes so many people to mis-tell me (Rom)? It is often, if not always, one word and they seem to have no correlation in that I will sometimes get a name, something arbitrary like "toad", or just a seemingly random combination of letters.

I'm not complaining though; they are sort of funny.

Melodie

Sounds like people who have nametells on, and also have rom as an alias for various things, likely including bashing.

Penwize

Rom said:

Insignificant question, but what is it that causes so many people to mis-tell me (Rom)? It is often, if not always, one word and they seem to have no correlation in that I will sometimes get a name, something arbitrary like "toad", or just a seemingly random combination of letters.

I'm not complaining though; they are sort of funny.

Snugglers trying to ROMP people but failing, I'd bet.  I'm ... I'm sorry man.  That's just harsh.  At least all the misses I get are people failing at typing OPEN, so I just get people calling me a door all the time.

Iocun

I turned nametells off moments after I accidentally sent Sabiru a dozen hundred mistells containing numbers because I had forgot the # in zmud's #SA command when testing out an unfortunately looping aspect of my system.

Mizik

Iocun said:

Who knows, maybe I'm just misunderstanding something here, but as far as I'm aware all damage formulas are linear formulas consisting of a constant and a factor of maxhp, and all healing formulas are linear formulas consisting of a constant and a factor of maxhp. As long as the maxhp factor of the total healing formula is greater than the maxhp factor of all the formulas for the damages you are taking in a fight, having more max hp is a good thing, and in the opposite case, having less hp is a good thing. There wouldn't be any maximas or minimas.

However, now that I'm considering it further, there can still be "zones" of max health that are preferable when you wish to be able to survive certain specific attacks at different times, with a specific set of defensive bonuses (to sip, moss, regeneration). Assuming you heal (a + b*maxhealth) per second and want to be able to survive both an attack that does a constant "c" damage per second (c>a) and one that does d*maxhealth damage per second (with d>b), you would want to optimize your max health in such a way that your healing per second is at least c, without getting your maxhealth above the point where you couldn't keep up with the second attack anymore. This would indeed give you a certain max health range that may fulfill both conditions, while a max health below or above that would be bad for one of the cases.

However, this range depends so much on those two damage sources in question and only applies if they appear on separate occasions, that it would seem almost impossible to give a meaningful range for combat in general, even less so since, as mentioned, it depends on all your modifications to your health recovery formulas, as well as modifications to the damage formulas (i.e. armour).

I just threw up

Cooper

Cahin said:

Eld said:

Cahin said:

The question is if you are going to hunting exclusively or ever participating in pvp. I generally advise the sip bonus trait as the first pickup in the defensive traits department due to the fact that max health increase also increases damage to yourself.  If you're Cyrenian or Hashani and can manage to abstain from pvp altogether and just want to hunt, go for the constitution, but if you could ever see yourself pvping (in any form) I would recommend the health sip.

The thing is, you're choosing between a 5% health sip and a 5% health sip + 300 extra health. Unless you're saying that extra health is a net disadvantage a significant fraction of the time, which I doubt, I don't see why you'd take receptive body over robust. But we've had this discussion earlier in this thread, not sure we need to rehash it here.

I have been told by several credible combatants that ~4500-4600 health is the desired health for greatest sip over damage taken. Further isolating yourself from this range would be believed to have disadvantageous effect.  You're only taking into account the health sip.  Based on this I have given my input, which I believe to be correct.

Your credible combatants are entirely wrong. The attacks always do the same base damage + max health damage. The higher your max health, the less the base damage effects you. Higher health will be better until they come up with an ability that is inversely proportional to your max health.

Iocun

(@Mizik: Truth be told, so did I after I saw what I had done.)

Xer

I liked it >.>

Hideyoshi

From TRAIT INFO MASTER CONTEMPLATOR:

Pondering the wonders of the universe enables you to have increased willpower regeneration while meditating.

From AB KAIDO SPLITTING:

By splitting your consciousness into dual parts, you will lose part of your maximum mana level, but will effectively meditate constantly in your second mind, gaining you mana constantly and speeding up meditation.

QUESTION:

Is Kaido mind splitting affected by the Master Contemplator trait? Does the willpower regenerate faster in split minds if we have the MC trait? Or does the trait only affect normal meditation?

Thank you.

Rispok

Should only work in normal meditation.