Quick Questions

Taeltwo

Atalkez said:

You're values are based on the assumption that attack1 and attack2 do the same damage in a double attack pattern.

Here, I'll do a 33%/66% split to show that it doesn't change:

Imagine you have an attack that does 1000 damage with a 10% chance to crit for double damage.

That means 90% of the time it does 1000 damage and 10% of the time it does 2000 damage.

Which means the average damage is (.9*1000) + (.1*2000)

Which comes out to 1100.

Imagine instead you have two attacks, one does 334 damage (call this the first attack) and the other does 666 damage (call this the second attack). This does the same total damage as that single attack (334 + 666 = 1000).

That means 90% of the time the first attack does 334 damage and 10% of the time it does 668 damage.

Which means the average damage for the first attack is (.9*334) + (.1*668)

Which comes out to 367.4

And 90% of the time the second attack does 666 damage and 10% of the time it does 1332 damage.

Which means the average damage for the second attack is (.9*666) + (.1*1332)

Which comes out to 732.6

Add them together and you get: 1100

1100 = 1100

Whether the attacks are consolidated or not doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters is which attack/combination has higher DPS.

(And, as @Penwize is alluding to, the wasted damage. Though for most players that don't have a 3.5% WSC chance, that's going to be a way smaller deal than it used to be, and might not necessarily be an advantage at all.)

Ahmet

Taeltwo said:

Ahmet said:

I did that for the sake of simplicity. Upper crits don't change anything.

Look at a 10% double and a 5% triple crit rate on a 1000 damage attack:

That means the average damage is (.85*1000) + (.1*2000) + (.05*3000)

Which comes out to 1200.

Same crit scheme for 500 damage attack: (.85*500) + (.1*1000) + (.05*1500)

That's 600.

So two of those are 1200.

1200=1200

You can substitute in any crit percentages and any multipliers and add any number of other multipliers you want, you'll always find the same thing. If two attacks have the same DPS without crits, no structure of fixed-value crit chance and crit multipliers will get you attacks that have different DPS with crits.

Which should be intuitive if you think about it. In the long run, crits are just multipliers. So basically all you're doing is applying the x2 before the crit multipliers in the case of the big, slow attack and after crits in the case of the small, faster attack. And multiplication is commutative.

I'm not saying your comparisons are off, I'm saying your numbers for base damage to crit dps are off, which they still are.

"Look at a 10% double and a 5% triple crit rate on a 1000 damage attack:" <----- this is literally never a possibility, that's not how stacking crit rates work, nor how upper crit damages work.

I was simply pointing that out.

Taeltwo

Sure, like I said I was trying to keep it simple. And I was trying to keep the stacking simple too so it's easier to understand the basic principle.

You can work out the actual values and you'll see that it's still just a multiplier in the long run.

Antidas

Atalkez said:

Your values are based on the assumption

Ftfy. Scrub

Borre

Jemaine said:

Sena said:

It depends on the mount's numerical level, not the type of mount. It's possible for a legend steed to be a lower level (and thus give less benefit) than a light horse.

As a follow up question to that, how do you determine a mounts numerical level?

So I killed my crab and albatross, seems the albatross is level 60 and the crab is 70. So the crab is better for defence, save that it doesn't fly, yes?

Aerek

Don't know -how- much of a difference 10 levels makes, but yes, that'd be true. That's generally the rule, non-flying mounts are higher level and thus give better bonuses (and are better at jousting) than flying mounts.

Fitz

Aerek said:

Don't know -how- much of a difference 10 levels makes, but yes, that'd be true. That's generally the rule, non-flying mounts are higher level and thus give better bonuses (and are better at jousting) than flying mounts.

Any sena math on the difference ten levels makes

Sena

I don't have any idea, other than what Clementius said years ago; the max you're likely to find on an actual mount (at the time at least, it's possible that far better mounts are available now) is around +4 dex worth, but it can theoretically go up to +10 (not sure if that's because of an explicit cap on the benefit or because that's what you get at the max denizen level). Testing things like dodging and accuracy is too much work for me to bother with it.

I should note (since it comes up often) that riding defence is only a dodging boost, there's no damage reduction from mounts/riding.

Borre

So defence offers no benefit to bashing?

Penwize

Borre said:

So defence offers no benefit to bashing?

Riding and dex don't, because they're dodging.  Dodging doesn't affect bashing at all.  Damage reduction sources, like the avoidance skill, armour, runes, class defs like scales, resistance rings and such, all do affect bashing, however.

Kayeil

Anyone have issues with the commodity market lately? In a text file I'd add and subtract from the type of comm I was buying and selling, and it turns out the commodity market just suddenly ate up 12,000 commodities of mine which means I'm out over 300k gold in costs. Pretty frustrating. I wouldn't even know had I not been keeping track.

Skye

Comms disappearing on the comm market is a known issue afaik. Have a few people complain about it over the weeks. I only put up what I'm intending to or know will sell. I'm wondering if it's an issue with multiple people pricing their goods at the same price. I've noticed sometimes it groups all the comms collectively regardless of sellers, othertimes it gets listed separately. Not really sure what causes it. 

Kayeil

Ah okay, thanks Skye. Pretty sure they would've sold as over 20k of them sold pretty fast. Just sucks that you can't trust the comm market right now and can be out all kinds of money and have no idea unless you keep track.

Frederich

So I've got a question.  About how much does strength affect monk attacks?

I've got nimble and the like, but whenever I get a bump from a rune to 15 strength, it doesn't seem to be all that much different (though I'm not using anything super big to calculate the exact number of crits and differences in kill time, etc).  I also didn't feel much of a difference between 12 and 14.

Khel

I ran some numbers on Aetolia (where you can clearly see all kinds of numbers) and the best bashing attack was actually a single hit one when accounting for crit % from 0 to 60%. Additionally, even as crit rates increased, the raw DPS values stayed evenly spaced apart - like, if class A was better than class B at 0% crit by a certain percentage, that DPS percentage gap remained there all the way through. So multi-hit attacks don't give you any boost to your overall DPS from my testing.

Cynlael

Monk is pretty crap at bashing nowadays. Doesn't help that knuckles aren't working, despite having had numerous bug reports over like the past 1-2 years that they aren't functioning.

Valkyn

@Kayeil I had 100 gold just completely vanish on refining as well, few big bugs with commodities right now.

Kayeil

Valkyn said:

@Kayeil I had 100 gold just completely vanish on refining as well, few big bugs with commodities right now.

Wow... well maybe I'll just hold off on selling comms til this gets fixed.

Ismay

Cynlael said:

Monk is pretty crap at bashing nowadays. Doesn't help that knuckles aren't working, despite having had numerous bug reports over like the past 1-2 years that they aren't functioning.

Knuckles are working. They work whether worn or removed, as long as they are in your inventory. Put them in a pack or drop them to test. Tecton tested it with me here while back.

Sena

Frederich said:

So I've got a question.  About how much does strength affect monk attacks?

I've got nimble and the like, but whenever I get a bump from a rune to 15 strength, it doesn't seem to be all that much different (though I'm not using anything super big to calculate the exact number of crits and differences in kill time, etc).  I also didn't feel much of a difference between 12 and 14.

I don't have very accurate numbers now, but it should be around 6-7% per point at the low end (close to 12), 4-5% for moderately high (~16), maybe down to 3-4% for nearly maxed out (20+). Going from 12 to 14 should be at least an 11-13% boost.

Austere

Ismay said:

Cynlael said:

Monk is pretty crap at bashing nowadays. Doesn't help that knuckles aren't working, despite having had numerous bug reports over like the past 1-2 years that they aren't functioning.

Knuckles are working. They work whether worn or removed, as long as they are in your inventory. Put them in a pack or drop them to test. Tecton tested it with me here while back.

My knuckles are not.  I resubmitted a bug a few days ago. Base damage regardless of whether they are in pack, work, dropped,  or turned into a longsword. 

Fitz

Can you still post on forums on retired characters? 

Dochitha

Any bard experiencing Aria not working?

7364h, 5363m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:23:48.86 [0] NE|W (+75m, 1.3%) 
You have the following defences:
starburst
mosstattoo
megalithtattoo
boartattoo
moontattoo
kola
poisonresist
levitating
cloak
nightsight
thirdeye
mindseye
speed
alertness
deathsight
temperance
lifevision
insulation
fangbarrier
insomnia
blindness
deafness
density
selfishness
lay
tune
songbird
You will attempt to parry attacks to your torso.
You are benefitting from a 25% bonus to experience gain.
You are protected by 29 defences.
7364h, 5353m, 62% cxkdb-  - 17:23:50.73 [0] NE|W (-10m, 0.2%) 
You have recovered equilibrium. (0.164s)
7364h, 5353m, 62% cexkdb- Sidhe - 17:23:51.04 [0] NE|W 
Your voice rises to the heavens with your instrument, but without your audience, as you sing an Aria 
of healing to yourself.
7364h, 5308m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:24:00.74 [0] NE|W (-45m, 0.8%) 
You have recovered voice balance. (1.007s)
7364h, 5308m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:24:01.70 [0] NE|W 
You say in an all-consuming, frosty voice, "No effect."
7364h, 5298m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:24:06.07 [0] NE|W (-10m, 0.2%) 

Tagging @Tecton .

Tolan

Dochitha said:

Any bard experiencing Aria not working?

7364h, 5363m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:23:48.86 [0] NE|W (+75m, 1.3%) 
You have the following defences:
starburst
mosstattoo
megalithtattoo
boartattoo
moontattoo
kola
poisonresist
levitating
cloak
nightsight
thirdeye
mindseye
speed
alertness
deathsight
temperance
lifevision
insulation
fangbarrier
insomnia
blindness
deafness
density
selfishness
lay
tune
songbird
You will attempt to parry attacks to your torso.
You are benefitting from a 25% bonus to experience gain.
You are protected by 29 defences.
7364h, 5353m, 62% cxkdb-  - 17:23:50.73 [0] NE|W (-10m, 0.2%) 
You have recovered equilibrium. (0.164s)
7364h, 5353m, 62% cexkdb- Sidhe - 17:23:51.04 [0] NE|W 
Your voice rises to the heavens with your instrument, but without your audience, as you sing an Aria 
of healing to yourself.
7364h, 5308m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:24:00.74 [0] NE|W (-45m, 0.8%) 
You have recovered voice balance. (1.007s)
7364h, 5308m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:24:01.70 [0] NE|W 
You say in an all-consuming, frosty voice, "No effect."
7364h, 5298m, 62% cexkdb-  - 17:24:06.07 [0] NE|W (-10m, 0.2%) 

Tagging @Tecton .

sing aria at me

Your voice rises to the heavens with your instrument, but without your audience, 

as you sing an Aria of healing to yourself. (-60m, 2.0%) 

You have recovered voice balance. (1.01s)

sing aria at me

Your voice rises to the heavens with your instrument, but without your audience, 

as you sing an Aria of healing to yourself. (-150m, 5.0%) 

You have recovered voice balance. (0.889s) (-15m, 0.5%) 

sing aria at me

Your voice rises to the heavens with your instrument, but without your audience, 

as you sing an Aria of healing to yourself. (-150m, 5.0%) 

TBH, I thought Aria was only suppose to be a -targeted- song. At least, the way the AB file explains it, I thought you could only sing it to a target, and not to yourself. Though, either way, as of right now you can sing it to yourself, it doesn't show up on DEF, and you can continuously sing it on voice balance without any effect(Doesn't show up on DEF, doesn't have any effect on health). I also don't think it has any effect on another player).

Edit: I was dumb, and was trying to sing it to myself while deaf. I have it working now, showing up on DEF. Though, I still thought it wasn't meant to work on yourself.

Antonius

You're deaf so no, it won't work.

Dochitha

Antonius said:

You're deaf so no, it won't work.

You got it! Thank you I thought I was bugged.

Kayeil

Fitz said:

Can you still post on forums on retired characters? 

That seems iffy. We were told eventually accounts of retired characters would be deleted? @Taeltwo's old account @Tael isn't working, I guess? But @Jeslyn's still is. Confusing, so it's hard to tell if the account will last or not.

Vokun

Nevermind damn mobile phones

Tecton

You can't log in as a retired character, but if you've got a logged in session, you can continue to use it until the session expires.

Antonius

I imagine you just can't log in to retired accounts, so if you're already logged into the website/forums then you'll be able to post until you get logged out again (I assume it uses a cookie to track that, so until that expires).