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Comments
Not only did I hate it, but now I can no longer listen to Dej Loaf, Buckethead or The Killers without remembering it and feeling my real life soul sapped of energy.
a) Where the hell do you guys bash?
b) What is your potash/health percentages set at?
(when I can get them all, early in the morning)
I clear Dun Fortress, Tir, Moghedu, Tsol'aa and Tenwat, and don't even burn through 600 health sips / 250 potash, and I don't even have arties. Takes maybe ~90min to get through that. I usually do all of that, play a game of LoL or something while my endurance regens, then start over.
b) 80% health and 70% moss, from memory.
And yeah, I plow through health like there's no tomorrow. Mending and caloric (Fissure) too, less so epidermal. I'm usually refilling my rift somewhere from daily to every couple of days. Poor Yae gets messages from me whenever I run her shop out of something.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Gotta get creative with your areas. I love Hthrak and Istarion, the former due to amazing fast serpent bashing speed and the latter for talismans. For gold, I do UW or Annwyn, occassionally Azdun (crypt), Prin, Meropis, etc
The comment was more about how people burn through so much, than a lack of areas for me. I'm saying I barely burn through any :P
Seragorn and Jhui have what seems to be a much higher rate of critting than I see when bashing alone, from so many trips of hunting with them.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
I've been doing some trial testing in regards to hunting attacks. As a SnB spec Knight, my main hunting attack consists of two attacks being slice/shield. Outward appearances says that this is good, because you get an extra hit thereby giving extra critical hit chances.
My issue arises in that, the criticals from the shield strike alone are really non-factors. So even if I have a seemingly increased crit "rate", the overall DPS of the crits seem to be less than they would be if I was using a consolidated attack (single attack).
From what I've found when using jab target, whip of taming, level two dirk - it seems to be that crit consolidation is quite a bit better than sheer critical chances. That is to say, when I consolidate my attack into one, my criticals are more effective overall than when I use the double attack.
Wondering if anyone has any numbers they could lend to the discussion?
For evidence:
Whip - https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/823881bf
Regular - https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/08da8fd5
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
In practice, denizens don't have millions of points of health and a lot of people don't hunt continuously for long periods of time. Getting a large crit on a single attack that deals more damage is more likely to kill the target, meaning less attacks overall for that kill, especially if it's one of your first attacks on that target.
This is basically the opposite of the situation pre-Battlerage, where a large crit on even a weak attack was often sufficient to do a substantial percentage of the target's health, and more opportunities to crit (even if they did less damage individually) generally resulted in faster hunting.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Imagine you have an attack that does 1000 damage with a 10% chance to crit for double damage.
That means 90% of the time it does 1000 damage and 10% of the time it does 2000 damage.
Which means the average damage is (.9*1000) + (.1*2000)
Which comes out to 1100.
Imagine instead you have two attacks that do 500 each with a 10% chance to crit for double damage.
That means, for each attack, 90% of the time it does 500 damage and 10% of the time it does 1000 damage.
Which means the average damage for each attack is (.9*500) + (.1*1000)
Which comes out to 550.
You have two attacks, so 550 * 2 = 1100.
1100 = 1100
@Antonius: That doesn't actually follow. You're right that smaller, faster attacks were clearly worth more before the changes (when pretty much any bashing attack could kill in one hit with a crit), but big attacks aren't necessarily better now. The question is still what percentage of mob health values will cause you to overshoot with the big attack and how much time will that cost you versus what percentage of mob health values will cause you to undershoot with the smaller attacks and how much time will it cost you to use the one additional attack it takes you. That's going to depend on the distribution of mob health values and on the particular damage and timings of the attacks in question. I would be pretty surprised if it's generally true that bigger attacks are better now.
This can already be seen bashing as a Bard or Sword and Shield spec Knight, where your attack is split into two parts, but not evenly. There is a staggering difference between getting a WSC on the jab and getting a WSC on accentato as Bard. Over the long term it averages out, because that's how DPS works, but a lot of/most people don't bash continuously for extended periods of time.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
For a given max health, the last blows will fit one of these two possible patterns:
1. The mob's remaining health means that both the faster attack and the slower attack will kill it in one blow. In this case, the faster attack is better by a margin of the difference between the speed of the faster and slower attack.
2. The mob's remaining health means that the slower attack will kill it in one blow and the faster attack won't (i.e., it will take two fast attacks). In this case, the slower attack is better by a margin of the the difference between the slower attack and two of the faster attacks.
Things are slightly more complicated if the faster attack is more than 50% faster than the slower attack, but basically the same logic holds.
So the question is, which will be more frequent, #1 or #2?
Which one will be better in the long run is going to depend on the distribution of mob health values (and on what the speeds of the two attacks actually are, relative to that distribution). Without thinking about it too deeply, and I could definitely be wrong, my intuition is that if mob health values are randomly distributed, I think that the two attacks will be equally efficient.
Either way, the more pragmatic answer is that it's almost certainly not worth worrying about anymore. It only mattered before because you would so frequently wildly overshoot the max health of your targets. In most cases now you probably want to just do whatever attack gets you the highest DPS - wasted DPS is just not going to have anywhere near the same impact on efficiency as it used to.
Look at a 10% double and a 5% triple crit rate on a 1000 damage attack:
That means the average damage is (.85*1000) + (.1*2000) + (.05*3000)
Which comes out to 1200.
Same crit scheme for 500 damage attack: (.85*500) + (.1*1000) + (.05*1500)
That's 600.
So two of those are 1200.
1200=1200
You can substitute in any crit percentages and any multipliers and add any number of other multipliers you want, you'll always find the same thing. If two attacks have the same DPS without crits, no structure of fixed-value crit chance and crit multipliers will get you attacks that have different DPS with crits.
Which should be intuitive if you think about it. In the long run, crits are just multipliers. So basically all you're doing is applying the x2 before the crit multipliers in the case of the big, slow attack and after crits in the case of the small, faster attack. And multiplication is commutative.
From what I've seen the shield strike alone accounts for only 33% of the total damage of the attack, with the slice being 66% of the attack.
Getting a critical on the 66% attack gives a higher return than getting a critical on the 33% attack, both of which have an equal chance of happening, which (seems to me) to reduce the effectiveness of the critical hits of both attacks.
So far, I've preferred the consolidated attacks over the split attacks.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
If we're operating under the assumption that bashing with a dual attack will do the same DPS for your class as bashing with a single attack (that isn't necessarily your primary attack) - then sure.
I don't think that is the case, though. Purely from the the hunting that I do personally, since switching to the consolidated attack I clear areas faster than I was prior.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.