Quick Questions

Sarathai

Sylvan bashing is probably a contender for the tankiest bashing in the game.

Viridian + Staff flail + chainmail + Vigour + Propagate bloodroot to body + barkskin, and that's before adding arties on top, or Forest harmony.

Antonius

I have no idea what unartied bashing is like, but with a full set of level three artefacts, Bard isn't "also good". Of the eight classes I have - Paladin, Blademaster, Runewarden, Bard, Priest, Alchemist, Serpent and Monk - I've found it to be the best.

Everybody talks about how great Serpent DPS is but you're giving up a LOT of health speccing for dexterity to maximise garrote speed. I lose about 1.6k health (before aria's additional 10%) in Serpent compared to Bard, which means considerably slower bashing.

Priest seemed a bit slower in terms of kill speed, and since I can tank basically everything I need to as a Bard with 7.7k health anyway the fact that it's tanky as hell was sort of wasted.

Alchemist would probably be my second choice for a bashing class based on what I've seen. Only issue is having to pick nimble for PvP or quick-witted for PvE, but not an issue if you're going to grind to 99 while ignoring everything else.

Kasya

Antonius said:

I have no idea what unartied bashing is like, but with a full set of level three artefacts, Bard isn't "also good". Of the eight classes I have - Paladin, Blademaster, Runewarden, Bard, Priest, Alchemist, Serpent and Monk - I've found it to be the best.

 O.o 

That's not including dragon...

Antonius

Oh, true. Nine if you include dragon (bashing isn't that great really, tanking does occasionally come in handy though). Ten if you include technically having Magi but being Inept in all three skills.

Klendathu

@Antonius what race / stats do you have when you bard? Artied / unartied? And how do you manage Aria, manually or on a timer to re-sing?

Cynlael

I think Thiev was rocking con spec human bard and still doing fine. Lv2 gauntlets/con/bracelets, lv3 sip, soa/soulpiercer + that arti that lets you call harmonics faster, and he was shredding shit.. Was sitting around 8800-ish hp with aria up... As horkval he changed between str/con spec a lot, for minor differences, god was it tanky as shit tho... Perma canticle = stronk.

Antonius

Con-specced Satyr with a full set of level three stat artefacts, so 16 strength, 14 dex, 17 constitution, 15 int. Unartied would be 13, 11, 14, 12.

Right now I have Aria scripted as part of my bashing attack. If I don't have the defence, don't have deafness or have salve balance (to apply epidermal), and have voice balance, it will add aria to the list of commands to set my in-game bashing alias to, so I'll put it up along with my next jab.

Here's what that script currently looks like, by the way:

local commands = antonius.get_commands()

if antonius.class():find("Dragon") then
	table.insert(commands, antonius.dragon.attack == "inc" and "incantation" or antonius.dragon.attack)
elseif antonius.class() == "Paladin" then
	local wieldcommands = antonius.wielding.wield(antonius.wielding.lookup.longsword, antonius.wielding.lookup.shield, nil, false)
	table.insertAll(commands, wieldcommands)
	table.insert(commands, "combination &tar slice smash")
elseif antonius.class() == "Runewarden" then
	local wieldcommands = antonius.wielding.wield(antonius.wielding.lookup.dwcleft, antonius.wielding.lookup.dwcright, nil, false)
	table.insertAll(commands, wieldcommands)
	table.insert(commands, "doubleslash")
elseif antonius.class() == "Bard" then
	table.insertAll(commands, antonius.wielding.wield(antonius.wielding.lookup.rapier, antonius.wielding.lookup.shield, nil, false))
	if not ssc.defs.current.aria and antonius.voicecraft.balance() and not antonius.queueing.anyqueued("class") then
		if not ssc.affs.current.deafness or svo.bals.salve then
			if ssc.affs.current.deafness then
				table.insert(commands, "apply epidermal to ears")
			end
			table.insert(commands, "sing aria at me")
		end
	end
	table.insert(commands, "jab")
	if antonius.harmonics.needharmonics() then
		table.insert(commands, "call harmonics")
	end
elseif antonius.class() == "Priest" then
	table.insertAll(commands, antonius.wielding.wield(antonius.wielding.lookup.mace, antonius.wielding.lookup.shield, nil, false))
	table.insert(commands, "smite")
elseif antonius.class() == "Serpent" then
	table.insertAll(commands, antonius.wielding.wield(antonius.wielding.lookup.lash, antonius.wielding.lookup.shield, nil, false))
	table.insert(commands, "garrote")
end

send("setalias bashing " .. table.concat(commands, "/"), false)
antonius.queueing.queue("eqbal", "add", "bashing", true)

That antonius.get_commands() function always returns at least a table with "stand" in it, but may also have things like getting vials/pipes out of containers, getting gold and corpses from the room, etc. table.insertAll is a utility function I added in a script, which just loops through the second table passed and adds every entry (using table.insert) to the first table passed. The queueing part will only queue the command ("bashing" in this case) if it's not already queued, will replace any currently queued command that it recognises as using balance (that fourth argument indicates whether or not it uses balance).

Kafziel

Priest and knight have better defence for non-dragon level/lightly artied. More tanking is more exp per hour because you're not stuck in Manama until level 90. That's why I put them over bard/alchemist. Bard has the advantage of con spec for pk over knight, though, so if you spec for pk those two might not be that different in tankiness

Edit: fk this autocorrect

Ismay

1) How useful is the Sawbones trait to monks?

2) Does the Knife Thrower trait work on thrown axes?

Thanks!

Cynlael

Not very.

Yes.

Sena

Yes to 2.

Kuy

Yay for specifics now! Assuming level 2 con belt, level 2 sip ring, level 2 bracelets, lvl 2 weapon, SoA, aldar, and wings, what would you guys recommend solely for bashing (considering both dps and tankiness): str spec snb paladin or con spec bard?

Antonius

Con spec Bard, provided you have a decent handle on harmonics. If you can spare the extra credits for the golden pendulum (halves the time for harmonics to be called) it's well worth it, but I can't remember the price - it's either 300 or 500, I think.

With those artefacts you'd likely have better DPS, even speccing con vs strength, and you'd tank well. Bard tanking isn't always smooth, though, since quite a lot of its ability to tank while bashing comes from Continuo (15% health regen every 10 seconds, IIRC). Takes a bit to get used to, but once you do it's a really strong bashing class; you'll think you're in danger and be preparing to run, then your health will jump up a huge amount because you get regen ticks, sip and moss within a small window.

Qwyn

Are Rurin's shops the only place to get tarot cards, or is there a way to craft them?

Aesi

Qwyn said:

Are Rurin's shops the only place to get tarot cards, or is there a way to craft them?

There are other places. Ashtan typically has a bunch seeing as they have Occultists. (WALK TO MARKET) -- I think I've seen them at the shop you land on from the landmark.

Sena

Rurin's shops (or Drogo's shop in Mhaldor I think, but it's still a denizen shop) are the only source of tarot cards.

Aesi said:

Ashtan typically has a bunch seeing as they have Occultists. (WALK TO MARKET) -- I think I've seen them at the shop you land on from the landmark.

That's one of Rurin's shops.

Aesi

Sena said:

Rurin's shops (or Drogo's shop in Mhaldor I think, but it's still a denizen shop) are the only source of tarot cards.

Aesi said:

Ashtan typically has a bunch seeing as they have Occultists. (WALK TO MARKET) -- I think I've seen them at the shop you land on from the landmark.

That's one of Rurin's shops.

Ha. Damn newb Aesi

Valkyn

Qwyn said:

Are Rurin's shops the only place to get tarot cards, or is there a way to craft them?

They are, though sometimes players sell pre-inscribed cards. That's probably less of a thing now they brought in bulk inscribing.

There is a minor trait which makes all of Rurin's items cheaper (10% I think?) so if you bought a lot of cards you might want to consider it.

Kaervus

What happened to the in game curing here? 

Jarpa draws his blade back and plunges it deep into your helpless body impaling it to the hilt.
-- I got balance back
[Curing]: WRITHE
You begin to writhe furiously to escape the blade that has impaled you.
-- I got balance back
-- About 3 seconds later and still impaled
[Curing]: WRITHE
You begin to writhe furiously to escape the blade that has impaled you.
-- I got out after a few seconds

With other words, it caused me to be impaled for longer than I should have been because it writhe twice on the same impale. Is it a bug with the in game curing or a mechanic for how impale is cured that I've missed?

Antonius

It's a bug, shouldn't be writhing twice to get off of impale (it resets the time taken to escape). It doesn't always happen - I've only seen it once, I think - but it's annoying when it does. File a BUG in-game about it but I'll also tag in @Makarios on this.

Jukilian

I've sometimes seen my curing writhe again when I've gotten hit with web a second time while already writhing... So yeah, bug

Asmodron

@Antonius Hi there, you were mentioning how great Bard bashing is, could you give some specifics as to why it is better than other classes? From my outside perspective, it looks to me that bards would be squishy. Can you tell us what makes it so great, as well as healing gains from Aria and such?

Asmodron

Some general questions I have:

- How much is the full gain of avoidance when trans? Im not sure but I think someone once told me 30%?

- How much extra avoidance does Slipperiness for Jesters give, at trans pranks?

- Is avoidance in any way related to Dex numbers? (mitigating damage that is)

- Does the Drunken Sailor Stance and HeartsFury stance have any effect against mobs (swashbuckling)?

- Does Acrobatics have any effect against mobs?

- Someone once told me that for some reason, the Buckler shield will cause more damage to mobs than a Tower shield, with S&B knights. Is this true? I checked the AB and help shields and everything, not a mention.

Sarathai

Asmodron said:

- How much is the full gain of avoidance when trans? Im not sure but I think someone once told me 30%?

Not sure about the others, but I think Avoidance is 12.5% or so.

Sena

Asmodron said:

Some general questions I have:

- How much is the full gain of avoidance when trans? Im not sure but I think someone once told me 30%?
The damage reduction seems to be ~13.25%, the dodging bonus is the equivalent of +11 dexterity.

- How much extra avoidance does Slipperiness for Jesters give, at trans pranks?
None, slipperiness lets you writhe faster, and gives damage reduction against denizens (not sure what the reduction is but probably 10%, or what damage types it reduces but probably either all types or just blunt/cutting).

- Is avoidance in any way related to Dex numbers? (mitigating damage that is)
Dex (and other dodging bonuses) have nothing to do with damage reduction. The only relation is that avoidance happens to give both.

- Does the Drunken Sailor Stance and HeartsFury stance have any effect against mobs (swashbuckling)?
No.

- Does Acrobatics have any effect against mobs?
No.

- Someone once told me that for some reason, the Buckler shield will cause more damage to mobs than a Tower shield, with S&B knights. Is this true? I checked the AB and help shields and everything, not a mention.
Buckler will deal less damage per hit, but take less balance. Because of the extra speed, bucklers give the best damage per second.

Antonius

To be clear, I've mentioned (repeatedly) that Bard is great bashing when fully artied. I can't stress that enough. If you pick Bard based on what I've said and you don't have any artefacts don't blame me if it's not actually that good.

Bard has Tune. 10% reduction to all damage types (as far as I know). That helps a lot against denizens that deal non-physical damage, and helps make up for only being able to wear leather armour when dealing with physical damage.

Bard has Aria. 10% increase to maximum health. Nothing fancy, it just makes you tankier.

Bard has Continuo. That's 15% health regen every 10 seconds (as far as I know). Add on boar tattoo (5%) and level two health regen (5%) and you're gaining back 25% of your max health every 10 seconds before you add in irid moss/potash and sipping health elixir. Since Continuo is percentage-based it also feeds off of the effect of constitution and bracelet (+X% health/mana) artefacts, as well as the bonus from Aria.

Bard has Anthem. Sometimes it does you no good, but other times it makes you completely immune to the type of damage that you currently have to deal with. There are few things better than walking into a room of three Sidhe Knights and having Anthem make you immune to cutting damage.

Bard has Canticle. Reduces balance recovery. Bard attacks really damn fast. Also applies to allies so if you're hunting in a group then you're boosting everybody else, too (has a version for equilibrium, too!).

Bard has Hallelujah. Fighting things that hit with loki? Hallelujah has you covered.

Bard can wield a Shield of Absorption. So can plenty of other classes, so what's the big deal? Well, unlike sword and shield knight, you sacrifice no attack speed (and therefore DPS) in doing so.

Bard doesn't rely on a stat to maximise attack speed. This is only really relevant in the comparison to Serpent, but since that's a class that's constantly mentioned as being the best bashing in the game, it's a huge factor for me. I have ~5.5k health as Serpent because I'm specced for dexterity. I have 7072 (7779 with Aria) health as Bard at level 110, because I can spec for constitution instead. Higher DPS is great, but it's only high if you're in the room and attacking. An extra 2.2k health means a lot less hit and run.

Bard has Dwinnu. Depends where you hunt, but if you're like me and hunt Annwyn almost exclusively, using voice balance to rid yourself of webbed/roped afflictions is huge for bashing effectiveness.

Bard has Cantata. Strips shield (and rebounding, but that's irrelevant for bashing) using voice balance so you can drop shield and do a full bashing attack all at the same time. No sacrificing damage on your primary bashing attack (hello knights!) or using rage (hello other classes!) to drop shield.

Jab + Accentato hits hard. Better damage that most attacks, and a lot faster than many others, which means the DPS is much higher. There's only one downside here, and that's accentato being a flat 25% of the jab damage and the two parts being independent for critical hits. If you get a WSC on the jab things have a tendency to explode, if you get it on the accentato part not so much.

PvE and PvP are both based on jab. Jab is balance, so you take the Nimble trait for both PvE and PvP. Alchemist uses wrack/truewrack (balance) for PvP and educe iron (equilibrium) for PvE. Priest uses Smite (balance) for PvE, and uses smite + chasten (balance and equilibrium - it's the equilibrium part that's the limiting factor on speed) for PvP. Those two classes, while having a lot of upsides, have to sacrifice either PvE or PvP effectiveness when picking nimble vs quick-witted.

TL;DR: It hits hard and fast. It tanks surprisingly well. Harmonics are great and very mobile, and boost your group if you don't hunt solo. There are no awkward choices about traits and racial specialisation, you can maximise PvP and PvE efficiency with the same choices and you don't have to sacrifice tanking for attack speed.

Asmodron

@Antonius Thank you Antonius! That really clears things up.

@Sena too!

Tael

Is there any reason other than bashing speed to have higher int as an Alchemist?

Is having higher int useful for any realistic combat strategies or anything like that?

Sena

Just bashing and more mana/willpower, no relevance to PvP offence.

Citrus

Sena said:

- Someone once told me that for some reason, the Buckler shield will cause more damage to mobs than a Tower shield, with S&B knights. Is this true? I checked the AB and help shields and everything, not a mention.
Buckler will deal less damage per hit, but take less balance. Because of the extra speed, bucklers give the best damage per second.

Damn, and here I've been using a Tower shield cause I figured all shields were normalized.  Know the balance difference for Tower/Buckler/SoA by chance @Sena?