League of Legends

Trey

I feel like I could have done better, but for a first-time Taric run having no idea how to build him (and having not played at all for almost two years) I feel like it was ok. Fully aware that Lux carried the shit out of our team, though.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2399164529/36619929?tab=overview

Khel

I keep getting told, if you're plat or lower, don't play any real support. You play Malz, Zyra, Vel'koz, champs who can't quite cut it mid lane currently buy have some lockdown or high spike damage at 6 (or both), spend all lane just poking the other guy and coast on free gold to a decent mid game, then snowball by cleaning up team fights. You can win more by playing champs that can carry, if you're good enough to carry.

That being said, I keep going on rampages as Alistar support, so who knows.

Taryius

Play whatever you want. A lot of people who don't play support feel like they can't carry with traditional supporst and would rather play AP/Midlane supports. 

It's not more difficult to carry with a traditional support,  just a different way to carry.

Ryzeth

Vesios said:

obligatory: j4/panth kill lane bot is pure terror, rip that adc

Leona/J4 was funnier back in the day. Basically just took 1 of them landing a blind stun/knockup for that adc (or unlucky support) to get popped.

J4 + any stunning bruiser/tank, honestly. His damage is nuts on his own.

Daklore

ADC being in an awkward spot right now has an unintended side-bonus for me... ... I always get my primary role XD Which also means I'm either fighting other actual ADC mains... or auto-filled ADCs who don't know what they're doing. Kill lanes are still a problem ... as are auto-fill supports... but one step at a time.

As for the Achaea clan, we have it, no one really talks on it... we're all a bunch of anti-social internet nerds, whaddya expect? :P But I can invite people who want in, summoner name is still Daklore (clan is NA)

Kafziel

Khel said:

I keep getting told, if you're plat or lower, don't play any real support. You play Malz, Zyra, Vel'koz, champs who can't quite cut it mid lane currently buy have some lockdown or high spike damage at 6 (or both), spend all lane just poking the other guy and coast on free gold to a decent mid game, then snowball by cleaning up team fights. You can win more by playing champs that can carry, if you're good enough to carry.

That being said, I keep going on rampages as Alistar support, so who knows.

All 3 of those work fine mid..

Bard definitely my favourite carry support though, dude can do everything 

Vallie

I like kill supports at lower tiers because people more often go out of position which you can take advantage of, so I'll usually play an ADC that can punish them for it and hope my support sees the signal. But if you're the one that often is eating the poke/burst, tank supports are a good way to help mitigate some of that until you figure out how to position a bit better.

Definitely agree that shields are pretty much king now, however. Janna used to be an okay support at lower tiers just because you have to have an ADC that's good enough to play with her since she's less directly interactive, but with the current itemization she just kinda does everything (plus the gap between ADCs has been shrunk because of how rough it is right now @_@).

Elsam

Khel said:

I keep getting told, if you're plat or lower, don't play any real support. You play Malz, Zyra, Vel'koz, champs who can't quite cut it mid lane currently buy have some lockdown or high spike damage at 6 (or both), spend all lane just poking the other guy and coast on free gold to a decent mid game, then snowball by cleaning up team fights. You can win more by playing champs that can carry, if you're good enough to carry.

That being said, I keep going on rampages as Alistar support, so who knows.

It really depends man, I've been playing support for a while now and what I would tell you is this: pick who you like. This is especially true in lower elo (plat is not high elo by any means btw, high elo would be master or challenger) where knowledge of your champion and being comfortable wins games. Most people in bronze, silver and even gold just want to follow what they saw Biofrost run last week in LCS so they will take a champion they have no idea how to play and just spend the game feeding. While it is true that there are certain aspect of the role that are really strong right now *cough*shields*cough* it is still no substitute for something you just play well. So pick what you like and what you play best as, you're gonna win some games and you're gonna lose some games, but you stand the best chance of getting that W when you are on a champion you are comfy with. If you want to try others, just run a bunch of normal games with them. 

Vesios

meta is stupid and you should always play the champions you're most comfortable on, imo, even if the meta slaves tell you otherwise

If I was autofilled into adc, I would much rather have a mastery 7 Leona support than someone instalocking Malz because "lol he was played in the lcs, trust me he's meta"

Khel

The trouble I run into is that a high skill Leona can't carry a game when top is 0/9 and dies by himself after the enemy team gets baron. My games are usually top or mid spiraling out of control and then 4v2ing us.

But I if I play Veig support, even if I play like garbage, I can still do more damage to their 18/3 Kat and win the game when she gets ballsy.

I dunno, traditional supports won't in games for me. Nobody on my team is supportable- even games we are in the lead I lose because jungle Yas tries to 1v5 for the 6th time and our team dies rushing to save him. Silver III is a blast so far.

Daklore

I hear that, Khel. Solution: Get ADC fed as balls so they can carry the team on their back.

And pray to the Garden that said ADC can position. I've lost lanes hard before, but enemy ADC did nothing with it. They just kept stalling the game letting me get my ADC online. As long as top and mid go relatively even and jungle isn't screwed... i come online and run circles around most of those ADCs. It's amusing, sometimes. S'why I learned to do something with my early advantage.

Vallie

The biggest change within just the ADC ecosystem itself was really the items and their impact - you used to be able to spike at 2-3 completed items, now you really need 4 before you're threatening. Vayne can kind of sneak by because of crits modifying the whole tumble so now you just need IE + shiv (+ boots tbh), but...I mean it's Vayne. You have to cry yourself to sleep in a corner if they decide they don't like you around the bot lane

But it also means that if mid + jungle decide, yum yum, a double kill + tower just sounds great right now, and your mid and jungle don't respond...you're out of the game for 7-10 minutes. And that almost always means that your 3rd item is gonna have to be one of the last whisper items (if you weren't already behind), so you'll still not have that punch, but you need it to have any hope of at least chipping the mega tanks stomping around. If you're ahead you can at least buy some damage and get LW 4th

Jovolo

I think Karma and Nami are better Janna's imo, although Janna has a pretty low skill cap in order to be effective because it's fairly hard to misplay with her. The problem with Janna is she's so passive that she doesn't synergise very well with any Junglers so often you have to rely on having a good ADC for you to empower, and you have to play very reactive to what the enemy team tries to do. Karma and Nami provide similar utility to Janna but also have the upside of being able to make aggressive plays which enable you to punish enemy mistakes harder, and also increase carry potential from the support role. 

Really I agree with Elsam though, you should play what you're comfortable with rather than adhering to a meta that you suck at. I main top lane and my best win rates are with Shaco, Swain and AD Kennen. Most people who cry "Pick a tank!!" or "Pick x champ!!" have a very, very minor understanding of team compositions and just regurgitate what they've heard from others without really thinking about it. Funnily enough those type of whiners are most common in lower elo (silver-mid gold) but once you start hitting high gold and plat, people care more that you're good at your champion rather than the champion itself being "good". At least from my experience in Plat, but from what I've heard Diamond and above is the same. Mute the haters and climb on past them (if that's your goal).

Aralaya

All of these people sounding so smart

Jovolo

Khel said:

The trouble I run into is that a high skill Leona can't carry a game when top is 0/9 and dies by himself after the enemy team gets baron. My games are usually top or mid spiraling out of control and then 4v2ing us.

But I if I play Veig support, even if I play like garbage, I can still do more damage to their 18/3 Kat and win the game when she gets ballsy.

I dunno, traditional supports won't in games for me. Nobody on my team is supportable- even games we are in the lead I lose because jungle Yas tries to 1v5 for the 6th time and our team dies rushing to save him. Silver III is a blast so far.

The odds of your top going 0/9 are equal to the enemy top going 0/9, that's just how the game works. It's just our psychology that leads us to remember the games we get terrible teammates and forget the games where we played bad and got carried by someone else. There's a saying in League that 30% of your games are going to be unwinnable, 30% of them you'll get carried by someone else on your team, and 40% of them you'll have the deciding impact on whether your team can win or not. The numbers are obviously open to interpretation but generally it stands true. This is why you'll see players who are far above the elo they're playing in re: skill climb with 70%+ winrates. Some of their games are unwinnable, but the 40-50% or so where they have the ability to influence the game enough they will absolutely run away with it almost every single time. Professional players can even turn the "unwinnable" games because they're just that good. If you're where you belong, then that will be reflected by winning only about half of those games because more often than not you'll be playing against people who are pretty much as good as you.

It's completely true that it's harder to carry as a support than all other roles except arguably ADC, but on average a significant portion of these games will be decided by who is the better support between you vs them. It's not totally fair to compare Leona and Veigar's carry potential based on their damage output. Sure, Veigar support can end up doing a lot of damage, but he can't lock down teams like Braum or Leona could and you don't have the same level of safety when doing things like placing/clearing wards nor can you really protect your ADC if they actually turn out to be decent. Personally I don't think Veigar is a very good support anyway, you should probably go for Zyra, Brand or Malz if doing a lot of damage is your main focus but if you're a very good Veigar player than go for it. 

Sorry for double post

Vesios

Aralaya said:

All of these people sounding so smart

Disregard everything they're saying and just have fun, trust me.

You don't want to start talking meta and stuff, it sucks most of the fun out of the game. I honestly miss the pre-lvl 30 days of "any champ can work in any lane if you try hard enough".

Balanor

Two different games, what I am struggling to deal with. Silver is mildly hell, looking for someone in ranked who actually tries and doesn't just troll when they're ahead. I mainly support and mid (Zyra) but I Poppy and Garen top lane as well. And I prefer to use voice coms in order to communicate, let me know if any of you guys ranked and are looking to climb. :P

Vesios

I'm scared of going adc because I either become a right click demigod with perfect positioning or I end up going Melee Caitlyn(tm) and we all know how that turns out. There's no consistency for me in that position. When I get autofilled bot I usually pull out Ezreal for that specific reason. 

It's why I enjoy top and jungle a ton more, because I can go tankier champs that are more forgiving. 

Nazihk

I never bother with ranked because I hate the dedication to the metagame that's expected of you there.

Khel

Jovolo said:

Khel said:

The trouble I run into is that a high skill Leona can't carry a game when top is 0/9 and dies by himself after the enemy team gets baron. My games are usually top or mid spiraling out of control and then 4v2ing us.

But I if I play Veig support, even if I play like garbage, I can still do more damage to their 18/3 Kat and win the game when she gets ballsy.

I dunno, traditional supports won't in games for me. Nobody on my team is supportable- even games we are in the lead I lose because jungle Yas tries to 1v5 for the 6th time and our team dies rushing to save him. Silver III is a blast so far.

The odds of your top going 0/9 are equal to the enemy top going 0/9, that's just how the game works. It's just our psychology that leads us to remember the games we get terrible teammates and forget the games where we played bad and got carried by someone else. There's a saying in League that 30% of your games are going to be unwinnable, 30% of them you'll get carried by someone else on your team, and 40% of them you'll have the deciding impact on whether your team can win or not. The numbers are obviously open to interpretation but generally it stands true. This is why you'll see players who are far above the elo they're playing in re: skill climb with 70%+ winrates. Some of their games are unwinnable, but the 40-50% or so where they have the ability to influence the game enough they will absolutely run away with it almost every single time. Professional players can even turn the "unwinnable" games because they're just that good. If you're where you belong, then that will be reflected by winning only about half of those games because more often than not you'll be playing against people who are pretty much as good as you.

It's completely true that it's harder to carry as a support than all other roles except arguably ADC, but on average a significant portion of these games will be decided by who is the better support between you vs them. It's not totally fair to compare Leona and Veigar's carry potential based on their damage output. Sure, Veigar support can end up doing a lot of damage, but he can't lock down teams like Braum or Leona could and you don't have the same level of safety when doing things like placing/clearing wards nor can you really protect your ADC if they actually turn out to be decent. Personally I don't think Veigar is a very good support anyway, you should probably go for Zyra, Brand or Malz if doing a lot of damage is your main focus but if you're a very good Veigar player than go for it. 

Sorry for double post

Yeah I'm 6 out of 19 so those numbers sound made up right now. Literally nothing I can do to win the game though, our Darius was 3/13/4 or something crazy- if I'm Soraka, or Janna, or anyone it doesn't matter because I'll NEVER outscale the other team with their damage/kills/gold. Hardest role to carry as in solo q, triply so this season. Just spent all game bullying an Ashe/Nami out of lane and it doesn't matter - their Nasus had nearly 400 stacks at 20 minutes.

Lockdown/heal only matters if you actually have a team capable of doing anything, and I consistently don't.

Vallie

@Taryius @Khel @Vesios @Balanor What are your SNs? I need more late night people to play with!

Daklore

Vesios said:

I'm scared of going adc because I either become a right click demigod with perfect positioning or I end up going Melee Caitlyn(tm) and we all know how that turns out. There's no consistency for me in that position. When I get autofilled bot I usually pull out Ezreal for that specific reason. 

It's why I enjoy top and jungle a ton more, because I can go tankier champs that are more forgiving. 

I've heard the tales of people going ADC the first time, and suddenly realising, "oh, shit, this isn't as easy as it looks." Obviously, some people can fluidly swim into ADC and there's almost no difference between them and practiced ADCs, but those people suck(suck in the way that I hate them for being good with little effort). ADCs are one of the most highly flamed positions in a game, right up there with support. You're expected to kill the enemy team all the time, regardless of whether you can or not.(STOP HITTING THE TANKS!(first rule of ADC: hit what's in range. If the only thing in range is a tank, hit it... unless it's a bad position, then run away)). You need positioning. Not good positioning, great positioning. You're litterally a piece of paper carrying a box of swords. If you hit things, they hurt. If things hit you, you die. And... your team will probably never protect you in bronze, maybe 50/50 in high silver and gold.

... and yet, I'm an ADC main. Send help

Vesios

Hell not even the mechanics (although I admit that's my weakest aspect as a player), everything about the role conflicts with all I've been trained to do as a top main. I specialize in tanks and diving bruisers ffs. Nautilus, Maokai, Poppy, Jax, Xin, Wukong etc. etc. 

Solo frontline? No problem, I can handle that. Need initiation for the team fight? Say no more. Adc need peel? Mate I can lock someone down for 3+ seconds easy, in my sleep. 

Adc is the literal opposite of all those things and I just don't have the mindset for it. That isn't to say every time I get placed bot I feed my ass off, Ez is surprisingly one of my best champs. It's just... uncomfortable. So when I see autofill has been activated I usually just queue up for support to get it over with. Lets me get in the occasional Braum/Leona/Blitz game. 

Jovolo

Khel said:

Jovolo said:

Khel said:

The trouble I run into is that a high skill Leona can't carry a game when top is 0/9 and dies by himself after the enemy team gets baron. My games are usually top or mid spiraling out of control and then 4v2ing us.

But I if I play Veig support, even if I play like garbage, I can still do more damage to their 18/3 Kat and win the game when she gets ballsy.

I dunno, traditional supports won't in games for me. Nobody on my team is supportable- even games we are in the lead I lose because jungle Yas tries to 1v5 for the 6th time and our team dies rushing to save him. Silver III is a blast so far.

The odds of your top going 0/9 are equal to the enemy top going 0/9, that's just how the game works. It's just our psychology that leads us to remember the games we get terrible teammates and forget the games where we played bad and got carried by someone else. There's a saying in League that 30% of your games are going to be unwinnable, 30% of them you'll get carried by someone else on your team, and 40% of them you'll have the deciding impact on whether your team can win or not. The numbers are obviously open to interpretation but generally it stands true. This is why you'll see players who are far above the elo they're playing in re: skill climb with 70%+ winrates. Some of their games are unwinnable, but the 40-50% or so where they have the ability to influence the game enough they will absolutely run away with it almost every single time. Professional players can even turn the "unwinnable" games because they're just that good. If you're where you belong, then that will be reflected by winning only about half of those games because more often than not you'll be playing against people who are pretty much as good as you.

It's completely true that it's harder to carry as a support than all other roles except arguably ADC, but on average a significant portion of these games will be decided by who is the better support between you vs them. It's not totally fair to compare Leona and Veigar's carry potential based on their damage output. Sure, Veigar support can end up doing a lot of damage, but he can't lock down teams like Braum or Leona could and you don't have the same level of safety when doing things like placing/clearing wards nor can you really protect your ADC if they actually turn out to be decent. Personally I don't think Veigar is a very good support anyway, you should probably go for Zyra, Brand or Malz if doing a lot of damage is your main focus but if you're a very good Veigar player than go for it. 

Sorry for double post

Yeah I'm 6 out of 19 so those numbers sound made up right now. Literally nothing I can do to win the game though, our Darius was 3/13/4 or something crazy- if I'm Soraka, or Janna, or anyone it doesn't matter because I'll NEVER outscale the other team with their damage/kills/gold. Hardest role to carry as in solo q, triply so this season. Just spent all game bullying an Ashe/Nami out of lane and it doesn't matter - their Nasus had nearly 400 stacks at 20 minutes.

Lockdown/heal only matters if you actually have a team capable of doing anything, and I consistently don't.

What's your summoner name? Just want to see which people you're getting matched with, you sound unlucky as hell.

Vallie

Vesios said:

Hell not even the mechanics (although I admit that's my weakest aspect as a player), everything about the role conflicts with all I've been trained to do as a top main. I specialize in tanks and diving bruisers ffs. Nautilus, Maokai, Poppy, Jax, Xin, Wukong etc. etc. 

Solo frontline? No problem, I can handle that. Need initiation for the team fight? Say no more. Adc need peel? Mate I can lock someone down for 3+ seconds easy, in my sleep. 

Adc is the literal opposite of all those things and I just don't have the mindset for it. That isn't to say every time I get placed bot I feed my ass off, Ez is surprisingly one of my best champs. It's just... uncomfortable. So when I see autofill has been activated I usually just queue up for support to get it over with. Lets me get in the occasional Braum/Leona/Blitz game. 

With my other main role being jungle, I'd say try to play with Jhin more! He naturally forces you to play more carefully, since between his shots/reload you have natural gaps that you can use to reposition. You still need to learn how to auto + kite at your max attack range, but he's a lot more forgiving for that because of no attack speed boosts (so no need for super frantic back and forth mouth clicking), and you learn how to zone with your 4th shot. And you get to learn how to work around threats at both close/mid range, as well as long range from W + ult. He's like ADC with training wheels!

Nazihk

Jovolo said:

What's your summoner name? Just want to see which people you're getting matched with, you sound unlucky as hell.

There's one person who's consistently been in all of his matches, and so the smart money is that it's at least partially that guy's fault.

Vesios

Been trying to play the new Warwick in some normals.

Results so far: first match their midlaner was afk, remake. No pupper for me. Second match had our Talon going 0/6 to a midlane Blitzcrank by minute 5, enemy Varus botlane is 10/0 at 15 minutes. Sad pupper for me.

Maybe I should go bash.

Balanor

Please make it stop. Gold V, feeds against Silver 3s. 

"Im high bro. I dont care."
"I dont know how to support."
"You're all silver anyways. I'm gold, I'm better"
etc etc
Just go away, and stop playing ranked then please.

Anyone in this thread does ranked and try to climb? Still need a partner.

Saeva

Playing league with Kaziel is hands down the best way to watch people implode on themselves from absolute trolled anguish. it's kind of glorious.

Elsam

I think WW is actually worse post remake. His damage is down and the length of his ult seems to be down. He does lifesteal a bit more tho.