League of Legends

Rangor

AD Sion and AP taric bot lane. Laughs to be had.

Cynlael

Jarrod said:

I had someone tell me completely seriously than Master Yi and Tryndamere are AD Carries.

I don't play with that person anymore.

I can't help but feel like this is a troll post... But I'll bite anyway...

1) Outside of Vayne, those two champions right there are two of the hardest scaling AD champions in the game if they snowball (which isn't hard to do, FYI).
2) Both of those champions backdoor harder than any champion in the game and as AD if they are playing the game properly, you can't send less than two people to deal with that, which leaves your team to freely 4v3 their team while you lolspin over the wall, or Alpha strike to a jungle camp and get away.

There, two strong reasons for why your post is stupid. You're going borderline full retard with that statement (No offence). Saying AD Yi and Trynd aren't AD carries is just blatant retardation, sorry.

Back to positive discussion, though. R.I.P Edward, you will be missed
( (

Azi

Daklore said:

Whaddya mean without a top? Tryndamere is a top. >P

It gets better. I was solo top because our Fiddle and Fizz went mid. Trynd and Thresh went bot.

Erasariel

That's a very legit comp.

You'll see, that will be in LCS next year!

Daklore

Scumbag Karthus... (timestamps included )

Although chat log doesn't show it, we mutually killed each other, so... 8:10 was when I killed him, 8:09 earliest, 8:11 latest. I was like... 1... 2 seconds off of a penta.

Would've had it if my first missile didn't miss.

I couldn't figure out why they were pinging Karthus who was already diving behind his turret.... then "quadra kill" and I got greedy.


That was yet another 4v5 game. Not full way, but, might as well have been. Seemed like they were having connection issues, since they'd frequently connect, then immediatly d/c. Definately wasn't any rage involved.

I was like... 24/13/18 end of game. My team's Ziggs and I kept totally reading each other's mind. We'd be like, 1/10th health, and take out someone full health without dieing.

Then we'd catch a Nidalee spear or Miss Fortune bullet time.

Jarrod

Cynlael said:

Jarrod said:

I had someone tell me completely seriously than Master Yi and Tryndamere are AD Carries.

I don't play with that person anymore.

I can't help but feel like this is a troll post... But I'll bite anyway...

1) Outside of Vayne, those two champions right there are two of the hardest scaling AD champions in the game if they snowball (which isn't hard to do, FYI).
2) Both of those champions backdoor harder than any champion in the game and as AD if they are playing the game properly, you can't send less than two people to deal with that, which leaves your team to freely 4v3 their team while you lolspin over the wall, or Alpha strike to a jungle camp and get away.

There, two strong reasons for why your post is stupid. You're going borderline full retard with that statement (No offence). Saying AD Yi and Trynd aren't AD carries is just blatant retardation, sorry.

Back to positive discussion, though. R.I.P Edward, you will be missed
( (

Perhaps your vocabulary lacks the term 'assassin', but those two champions are definitely not AD Carries.

Perhaps you simply don't understand what an AD Carry does or how they work, but you certainly don't understand something.

Daklore said:

Then we'd catch a Nidalee spear or Miss Fortune bullet time.

As is only appropriate when you can't see either champion and think you've escaped the clutches of death.

Azi

ADC means attack damage carry

The term describes a role in competitive team play, not the damage type of a given champion.

Neither Yi nor Trynd are AD carries, because they are both better suited to other roles given their abilities. If you are selecting either of them as your ADC in higher ranked draft pick, expect to lose. The other team will pick an  ADC who can control the lane, winning bot and preventing either of those champs from farming. Tryndamere specifically is incredibly easy to kill and good players who pick real AD carries bot will dominate him in lane. Seriously. He'll get poked/harassed and killed and end up underfed with no farm.

Cynlael said:

Jarrod said:

I had someone tell me completely seriously than Master Yi and Tryndamere are AD Carries.

I don't play with that person anymore.

I can't help but feel like this is a troll post... But I'll bite anyway...

1) Outside of Vayne, those two champions right there are two of the hardest scaling AD champions in the game if they snowball (which isn't hard to do, FYI).
2) Both of those champions backdoor harder than any champion in the game and as AD if they are playing the game properly, you can't send less than two people to deal with that, which leaves your team to freely 4v3 their team while you lolspin over the wall, or Alpha strike to a jungle camp and get away.

There, two strong reasons for why your post is stupid. You're going borderline full retard with that statement (No offence). Saying AD Yi and Trynd aren't AD carries is just blatant retardation, sorry.

Back to positive discussion, though. R.I.P Edward, you will be missed
( (

You wouldn't recognize positive discussion if it kicked off its shoes, laid back in your recliner and started watching Twitch streams of people who actually know what they are talking about. Please stop polluting this otherwise decent League of Legends thread with total non-sense.

Azi

Daeir said:

They can be both played successfully as AD carries, though. It isn't an optimal choice, certainly, but I would build Tryndamere with hard AD/aspd to capitalize on the invulnerability he gets and either forcing the team to soak 6s worth of CC on me to stop that or handle me annihilating their backline with 900 damage crits rather than overtly building him as a bruiser.

You aren't going to get to build Tryndamere with hard AD/aspd to capitalize on anything because you are going to get zoned out of lane, your opponent is going to be over-farmed and fed, and your team is going to lose. Meanwhile, we will be pushing, stealing all neutrals, and I do not need to waste 6 seconds of CC on your invulnerability because I am fed and ignite. Your ideas all sound good but the fail to take into account that your late-game strategy is inapplicable when you fail early-game. 

Daeir said:

Also, ADC Yi's staying power in lane is ridiculous thanks to meditate. Given that you only need to prioritize E early game, his W gives him tremendous amounts of lane sustain and can allow him to handle more poke than any melee champion that scales as hard as he does reasonably should...

..Which makes him good solo top and decent mid. Not a good ADC.

Daeir said:

I've played bot lane Yi games before and absolutely rolled superior matchups (cait+janna) with no effort at all because of how much sustain meditate affords.

No.

@Daeir: You should familiarize yourself with the meta, especially roles and the advantages each are supposed to capitalize on.

Blujixapug

It's semantics. If your definition of carry is "ranged autoattacker", then ofc these champs are not that because they aren't ranged. It's an ambiguous term because "carry" is short for "carry the team", and... well wtf does that mean anyway.

IMO a carry is a champion who gets most of their power from items, because their kit has abilities that magnify the power of items, and therefore they become very powerful late-game when built up.

By that definition, Trynd, Fiora, and Yi are melee carries. Trynd gets his 35% free crit. Yi gets 35-70 free AD, and 40/60/80% free AS when he's ulting. Fiora gets 35 free AD, and 120% AS when she hits E. Apply multipliers like that to 10k gold worth of offensive items, and it's pentakill time.

Melee carries have always been ambivalent because when they're on a roll they can carve through an entire team, but all it takes is one stun and they die easily.

Azi

"carry" typically means "the person who is most fed/most farmed"

if you let your melee AD champ (trynd, yi) get fed and farmed but the enemy has a ranged AD champ equally or more fed and farmed then you are probably going to lose

your team has greater chances of winning by having a ranged AD carry because they are better equipped to defend dragon early game

if you use trynd against me bot while I'm playing one of graves/miss fortune/ashe/ezreal/caitlyn you are going to spend a lot of time 'B' and by the time you are high enough level to start getting into the fight, I will be able to kill you too quickly

a Yi who is successful top lane can certainly become fed enough to "carry" - that does not make him an ADC

Layna

The 'meta' in league is constantly changing, because people are doing things outside the norm and getting the results they desire.

It's not all about what you play where, but how you play and how your team plays that will determine your success in League.

There's also no guarantee you have of beating someone else in lane because many things factor in. You might be Caitlyn vs a Trynd but your support might be AFK, and your jungler never ganks while the enemy jungler camps your lane.

Cynlael

Azi said:

"carry" typically means "the person who is most fed/most farmed"

if you let your melee AD champ (trynd, yi) get fed and farmed but the enemy has a ranged AD champ equally or more fed and farmed then you are probably going to lose

your team has greater chances of winning by having a ranged AD carry because they are better equipped to defend dragon early game

if you use trynd against me bot while I'm playing one of graves/miss fortune/ashe/ezreal/caitlyn you are going to spend a lot of time 'B' and by the time you are high enough level to start getting into the fight, I will be able to kill you too quickly

a Yi who is successful top lane can certainly become fed enough to "carry" - that does not make him an ADC

You Sir, need to go and find yourself a tinfoil hat to wear.
By the logic in the first line of that, Edward (Former-Gambit Gambit) is a carry.

Give Yi blue buff and send him bot lane, and he'll out farm your ad carry left-right and centre, same can be said for Karthus, Olaf (scariest thing you can have early game), Urgot or Khazix. By your very definition of 'sticking to the meta' you're saying that lane swaps should never be pulled, which is just plain idiotic.

Ugh... I don't even know how to reply to the posts on this page, the amount of facepalm I've done from them is just... I even agreed with @Blujixapug's post.

An ADC does NOT need to be ranged for it to be considered an ADC, nor does it need to be placed 'bot lane' with a support (Where a ranged would be placed)

Protip @Jarrod: just because a champion is an AD assassin, that doesn't mean it's not a carry. A melee ad carry's roll is to gib the enemy carries before they get a chance to impact a team fight too strongly, see: Zed/Khazix as fine examples. Sir, it is YOU who doesn't understand the definition of roles in this game. I'm pretty convinced you think a support's only role is to place wards.

Jarrod

Your post seems to indicate that lane swaps occur to shut down ADCs with other champions.

Based on this pure idiocy, the rest of your post cannot possibly be construed as anything meaningful or intelligent.

Cynlael

@Jarrod: If that's what you got from my post, then you need a tinfoil hat as well. Considering that part of my post was directed at @Azi assuming ADC Yi/Trynd meant sending him against the enemy ranged ad.
My point still stands, Sir. Go and learn the roles. Continuing from what I said, I'm sure you think the Jungler's only job is to gank.

Jarrod

One of many problems with your post, don't worry it wasn't the only one.

Tahquil

Guys, Jesus christ. STop calling people retarded or suggesting they put on tin foil hats or calling them idiots. It's just not nice. You can have a 'reasonable' discussion without flinging insults at each other. 

Erasariel

Less trashtalk, moar scores pls.

Also, Amumu is really fun to play. I should try and learn to jungle him more.

Mishgul

amumu is a great ADC

Jarrod

Rush Runaan's Hurricane, split Bandage Toss and hit 3 enemy champions. Amumu splits into three champions and all ult the entire enemy team.

Best ADC by far.

Trilliana

It's one thing to learn the roles- especially when you're first learning the champ- but breaking the meta is amazingly fun as well. I did a beg bot match as Nami mid and owned Annie. I've Jungled Elise, gone top with her, gone mid with her, gone support with her. I plan to try out Lulu mid. I've seen a guy take Sona as AP mid, I've taken her as ADC, Saw the same guy do AP MF mid (Breaking the meta by SolWolf on youtube if you're curious)

Jarrod

There's 'breaking the meta' and there's things that actually work in competitive play.

Btw, Elise is actually played in all those roles in tournament level play...

Trilliana

I've actually never seen Elise played in tournaments

Jarrod

CLG's 1st and 2nd games (I think)  vs Azure Cats in the relegation matches, Chauster played Elise Jungle and counter jungled really hard. She's scary in the jungle.

Synbios

Cynlael said:

Back to positive discussion, though. 

See, there's positive discussion, where opinions, ideas and input are provided in the hopes of conveying one's point of view in the matter(I am not going to delve further into the content of whatever Cynlael posted, only the manner in which it was delivered):

Cynlael said:

I can't help but feel like this is a troll post... But I'll bite anyway...

1) Outside of Vayne, those two champions right there are two of the hardest scaling AD champions in the game if they snowball (which isn't hard to do, FYI).
2) Both of those champions backdoor harder than any champion in the game and as AD if they are playing the game properly, you can't send less than two people to deal with that, which leaves your team to freely 4v3 their team while you lolspin over the wall, or Alpha strike to a jungle camp and get away.

And then there's devolution into toxic discussion, which I'm pretty sure Ourania warned against:

Cynlael said:

There, two strong reasons for why your post is stupid. You're going borderline full retard with that statement (No offence). << Insulting someone and poorly covering it up with 'no offense' is a really, really done-to-death cliche. No offense.  Saying AD Yi and Trynd aren't AD carries is just blatant retardation, sorry.

Can't you guys just state your opposing views without adding fuel to fire? It's like, whenever I look at elohell, the forums(Garena and NA) and even here, some people just can't seem to avoid mixing input with insult, as though the thought process is:

1. Read post of another person that disagrees with you.

2. Write a reply that addresses, point-for-point, the arguments presented by the previous poster.

3. Just as mouse is about to click on 'post comment', pause.

3.1. "Hm, this is a point-for-point refutation of this guy's arguments, which should probably be enough at this point."

3.2. "But it feels so...incomplete. It's too 'normal', too...I dunno...positive?"

3.3. "Ah, I know what can fix that."

3.4. Pepper the post with various statements questioning the poster's intellectual capacity.

3.5. Tops off post with a 'your mom' joke.

3.6. "There we go! A right and proper response!"

4. Click Post Comment.

5. Pat self on the back.

Eiredhel

ADCs refer to ranged attack damage champions.

APCs refer to ability power champions who can provide some sort of nuke. 

Please note, these definitions don't mean anything in regards to where these champions are played, aka top lane Ryze, or mid lane ashe... and so on.

The reason why ADCs are required is because of the range of their auto attacks and placement in team fights. They can whittle down enemy opponents WITHOUT being in melee range. 

Now let's move onto what a carry is, a carry is a champion who scales stupidly. Trynd (can) be a carry, so can Yi, so is Sivir. However Tryndamere, and Master Yi are not ADCs because that's not what their roles are in team fights. For the same reasons why Top bruiser Taric works, and ADC taric does not. Because Taric does not have the range to harrass with auto attacks. Moving onward, this is why champions like Janna, Sona, Nami, god forbid Ahri and so on CAN be played in the ADC role (however meh it can be depending on the skill of the one playing) because they have ranged attacks and can adjust their positioning in a team fight.

Therefore. This is why Tryndamere and Master Yi, bot lane Fiora etc can be CARRIES but not ADCs. Tryndamere and leona bot is a kill lane because it focuses on insta-gibbing not harrassing, or fiora pantheon bot, or the ever famous leona and jarvan bot lane. 

Now let's move on.

Erasariel

amumu adc still the best

you'll see it in worlds, i promise you

Cynlael

ITT: People who thinks ADC refers to Ranged AD only.

PS: @Eiredhel NO ONE bloody said to put those champions in the freaking bot lane vs the enemy ad carry. Why the hell you people keep bringing that point up, I have no idea.
Also, Xin/J4 > all bot lanes, if you're running a kill lane.

@Synbios:

Daklore

Guys, stop.

That's enough.

Behave, or get out.

Azi

yes, you can break the meta and win sometimes

no, it does not often work in competitive play

competitive here assumes your support is not afk

without an adc bot you lose dragon and my adc gets farmed and fed

trynd any other lane is not an adc - he is a bruiser top or an assassin jungler

if you go top and build him as an adc, my bruiser riven will eat you

if you go jungle and build as an adc no adc jungles, does  not compute

@Cynlael - I am sure your ADC Trynd works great on bots. This thread isn't  about that tho

Erasariel

Oh my god you guys

if you want to undermine and shit-talk each other, go and make a thread for that in the sewers

this is almost as bad as the politics threads in the old OOC forums

almost