Multiclassing

Trevize

Anedhel said:

Your combinations don't make much sense, I'm afraid, Trevize. Monk and druid don't share much, stat-wise, in common, nor do they share flavor in common. Serpent and Blademaster, at the moment, do not, either. Sylvan shaman nominally, I suppose, but I think it's probably more common to see con spec in shamans than int spec. I'm not trying to knock the argument, I just don't think it's being presented in the right way.

Way to focus on the details and not the arugment!

Stats: Shaman and Sylvan was the worst, because of the nimble vs quick witted - sad that I didn't think of that, considering Trevize is Shaman. Serpent and Blademaster is actually going off Sarapis' (I think? Maybe Tecton?) comment that he'd like to see Blademaster be Dex-based. Monk and Druid actually do fit well together.

RP-wise, druid/monk always seemed similar in principle in my mind - strength and discipline. Serpent and blademaster - agility. Shaman/sylvan - magic based, more primal mages than magi or such.

All that said, I think you get my concept, even if you disagree on the details. I know we'll no doubt see a lot of min-maxing, but my personal desire would be to match up roles, so it doesn't seem weird. Of course, you could pull a Richard and...

Shirszae

A lot, though I do admit not all, combinations could be argued as making sense with a minimum of thought put into it. Not just those based upon the same stats or abilities, or that share similar flavor. In my opinion, any limit based strictly on class flavor would turn out to be too limiting. Better just have a limit on the number of simultaneous classes you can have, if a limit is required at all. Let people come up with their own reasons for the classes they pick. 

Anedhel

Classlead new multiclassing

Classlead problem When multiclassing comes in, people are going to make terrible decisions and do things that make no goddamn sense, with no attempt to justify it. Or, perhaps, with terrible attempts to justify it. One can't impose mechanical limits on multiclassing, and imposing a contextual limit on multiclassing would be impractical at best, and, more likely, downright useless, so it's up to the Achaean populace to make sense of their decisions (as it usually is).

classlead solution 1 Add a God of Punishing Terrible Decisions. This Divinity's job will be to ask people at random about their character/faction/RP choices. If the answer does not pass muster, the God of Punishing Terrible Decisions will make confetti out of their vertebrae.

Skye

I could probably spring for a Magi / Sylvan combo >_> I wonder how that'll work out haha

Sylvance

Anedhel said:

Classlead new multiclassing

Classlead problem When multiclassing comes in, people are going to make terrible decisions and do things that make no goddamn sense to me, with no attempt to justify it to me. Or, perhaps, with terrible attempts to justify it i.e. justifications that I don't agree with. One can't impose mechanical limits on multiclassing, and imposing a contextual limit on multiclassing would be impractical at best, and, more likely, downright useless, so it's up to the Achaean populace to make sense of their decisions (as it usually is).

classlead solution 1 Add a God of Punishing Terrible Decisions. This Divinity's job will be to ask people at random about their character/faction/RP choices. If the answer does not pass muster, the God of Punishing Terrible Decisions will make confetti out of their vertebrae.

Sylvance said: Eff you, quotes. I think we're maybe getting a little more concerned about this than is necessary. Seriously, as long as it's mechanically balanced (which, of course, is going to be an ongoing process just like single-classing), does it really matter to any of us whether someone else wants to play a SerpMaster or an Infernuid? Bearing in mind that "they'll have both on at the same time, which will be jarring for us older players" has already been batted right out of the park?

Shirszae

Sylvance said:

does it really matter to any of us whether someone else wants to play an Infernuid? 

Yes

Nizaris

Anedhel said:

make confetti out of their vertebrae.

I can haz as reflavoured vivisect, plz?

Sobriquet

Being a Jester in a monk house, I'm tempted to add Monk to Sobby, either that or Runewarden and go down the path of using sharp pointy things a little more

Antonius

Sylvance said:

Seriously, as long as it's mechanically balanced (which, of course, is going to be an ongoing process just like single-classing), does it really matter to any of us whether someone else wants to play a SerpMaster or an Infernuid? Bearing in mind that "they'll have both on at the same time, which will be jarring for us older players" has already been batted right out of the park?

The hell are you even on about? One of the first things said in the thread about multiclassing is it won't mean you get both classes skills at the same time.

Mechanics aren't a concern, people doing dumb shit like trying to be a druid and an infernal at the same time is.

Shirszae

Antonius said:

Seriously, as long as it's mechanically balanced (which, of course, is going to be an ongoing process just like single-classing), does it really matter to any of us whether someone else wants to play a SerpMaster or an Infernuid? Bearing in mind that "they'll have both on at the same time, which will be jarring for us older players" has already been batted right out of the park?

The hell are you even on about? One of the first things said in the thread about multiclassing is it won't mean you get both classes skills at the same time.

Thats is what he meant. He just worded it a little bit awkwardly.

Anedhel

If I can't be a paladin/infernal, I don't want to hear it. /wrists

Sylvance

I like @Antonius, because he's a cool dude

We need more love on these forums.

Anedhel

He meant the concept of unifying classes whose ideals are anathema to one another in the same individual is stupid, I'm pretty sure. Has nothing to do with mechanics. Semantically, you have half a leg to stand on, but the peg leg that is your aggressiveness lends your arguments less credence, I'm afraid

Lianca

@Anedhel is my ninja.

Sylvance

Anedhel said:

He meant the concept of unifying classes whose ideals are anathema to one another in the same individual is stupid, I'm pretty sure. Has nothing to do with mechanics. Semantically, you have half a leg to stand on, but the peg leg that is your aggressiveness lends your arguments less credence, I'm afraid

Sure. But we know that's not going to happen, so everyone just needs to chill the hell out a little bit about Multi-classing. I don't know why the first thing that people want to do when something's announce is to grab a sandwich board and a megaphone and cry doom from the rooftops.

Lianca said:

Easy there, @Sylvance, you've missed the point. He doesn't mean playing as both classes at once, but being diametrically opposed classes on one character. The worry is that people will want to be able to be an alchemist and multiclass as a sentinel/druid/sylvan. Or, equally as daft a priest will be able to multiclass with infernal.

Yah, I get that. Just being an asshole back because of the way he flamed me out, but yes. I need to chillax a little.

ETA: I've switched out the rage for some love. The world feels better already

Cooper

@Antonius Sylvance is generally crazy and doesn't know what she is talking about most of the time.

@Sylvance You will not be able to have the skills, or a mixed set, of more than one class at a time. Multiclass does not mean You have Infernal and Druid skills at the same time. Also, no one is really freaking out about anything. They are just saying a combination like Infernal and Druid IS dumb because it completely goes against RP.

Mizik

Sentinel and Apostate

Antonius

No Apostinel for you, Mizik.

Mizik

I've never tried Apostate. I want that aff control.

And of course, Sentinel is my girlfriend.

Accipiter

I hope they rework some of the class helping things before it goes through. Sentinel seems an almost mandatory subclass for any endurance using class for bashing with sloth/campfire, and if runelore stay the same runebinding causes the runes to be 12 hours at sketching even if you quit so that might be useful as well.

It isn't so much of a problem if the cooldown on changing is hours long, but that really defeats the purpose in my eyes.

Antonius

Sentinel isn't even close to being mandatory, though. With just Trans Fitness I could bash pretty much forever as a Paladin; add in things like the ring of endurance or a permanent ox tattoo and endurance regeneration is enough to cover the usage for a lot of classes.

If people want to take Sentinel to regenerate endurance faster, then they can, but I don't think many people are going to feel like there's no choice about it.

Rom

Sentinel + (Shaman|Runewarden)
Don't strip runes please. :x

Rangor

I want to go sylvan.

Sobriquet

As a trans fitness Satyr with Bop, I never have any endurance loss at all. I could bash 24/7 if  I had no life was Penwize

Accipiter

Trans fitness and I run out of endurance in about hour and a half as monk in scorpion, 3 hours with rapiers as runewarden and dragon and a little longer with a fast whip as a serpent. Borrowed ring of endurance covered the loss as serpent, but I still lost more endurance than I gained as both runie and monk. As monk I also run out of willpower faster than I regen with trans philosophy, amulet of will and megalith and dragon is a little better but still a negative.

Having to wait around for an hour or two before I leave each night to regen is annoying.

Sena

Accipiter said:

Having to wait around for an hour or two before I leave each night to regen is annoying.

It should only take an hour to regen if you're at 0 endurance/willpower with inept fitness/philosophy and no other regen boosts (in which case, it would be about 65 minutes max, less for most people). Trans fitness/philosophy reduces that to about 33 minutes to regen both from 0 to full, trans fitness/philosophy with ring of endurance, circlet of will, ox, and megalith makes it about 22 minutes to regen both to full. Then there are other ways to boost regen on top of that.

All of this assumes artied dragon endurance/willpower (21 int, 23 con, level 100). The lower your endurance/willpower, the faster it will be.

Sidonia

Why would you go sentinel for sloth/campfire when you could go druid for sloth/rain/harvest hive and/or just ask a sentinel for a campfire?

Arador

@Sena (tm) - Putting a sock in your hyperbole since 419AF.

Accipiter

Well, I timed it.

From 8484 willpower to full at 20200 took 38 minutes, with trans philosophy, megalith and amulet of will, no willpower draining defs up.

At the start of the time I had 20696 endurance, 12212 more endurance than willpower, when endurance was at 25786 (just below max at 26140) I had 13422 willpower, difference of 12364, so the regeneration rate of both is about the same (trans fitness and ox tattoo).

If I was at 0, it would be far longer than your 22 minutes, unless that was counting sleep/meditation in which case you are essentially removed from the game and not something I think is a good thing. Sitting around talking to people is fine. Hiding somewhere to sleep is not good RP.

I still maintain that classes with out of combat utility need to be looked at if you can change classes freely.

I don't think I was too far off in my 'hyperbole' of an hour considering it took almost 40 minutes to regen 60% of my willpower, with endurance regenerating at the same rate.

Sena

I was assuming sleep/meditation, it doesn't make much sense to complain about how long it takes to get back to full while you aren't actively trying to get back to full.