Multiclassing

Anaidiana

monk/druid. Herb garden FTW.

Silas

Yeah, you're on drugs if you think they'll let you switch race/traits as a standard part of multiclassing when they already sell the gem/grimoire.

Also, Internet Explorer is for scrubs.

Arador

On Topic: Why even have any additional restrictions beyond the factional ones? No Maldaathi with Serpent as second Class? Why not? Saying that your class determines your Role is a mindset from the Guild days. You can be a Serpent but conduct yourself with respect, fight fair in duels etc, Likewise a Naga with Infernal as secondary class can gank people, run out of fights etc etc.

Autoclass was supposed to divorce the Class from the Institution barring factional classes. It got this right with rogues and some cities will allow you to be Houseless, but it's full freedom got killed by politics in the Houses, either by ones who did not want to give up their old guild class to other Houses or by putting hard rules in place. So class remains very much married to House and as a result you either have to fit in with the ideals of that House to play that class like Naga and Maldaathi, or the Houses have to try and cater for various ideals and paths like the EF and the Congregation.

What I always found disturbing about this is how you have to change your character's path and ideals when you change class and therefore forced to change House. This does not always happen I know, but you kind of build your path in life in your House and are forced to change to another House when you change class. I would wish that with Multiclass this would no longer be required and that a House is solely about a shared purpose and path and class is irrelevant to that.

Also if we do not have stupid restrictions people would not have to change House, they can just learn the additional profession.

Borran

I really wish I had some idea of the changes weaponry and trade skill replacements are going to have on some classes... Forging is Borran's favorite part of knight classes. And what more could Sentinels gain in place if Concoctions? The class is already pretty well fleshed out.

Cathy

Borran said:

I really wish I had some idea of the changes weaponry and trade skill replacements are going to have on some classes... Forging is Borran's favorite part of knight classes. And what more could Sentinels gain in place if Concoctions? The class is already pretty well fleshed out.

I think they'll get their axe skills given a whole tree, divorcing them from woodlore - making woodlore about traps and animals. Don't quote me on that though.

Sena

What sentinel really needs is a spear/trident expansion. They don't use them nearly enough.

Trevize

Rangor said:

Internet Explorer does crazy things

QFT

That aside, I'd rather races, traits, and statpacks not change with class automatically. Gem of Reincarnation and Grimoire of Adaptation already provide those.

Description would be simple to change, no need to do that automatically.

I would like to see one artefact, that allows you to select unique statpacks and/or traits (not race!) per class.

Nizaris

Rangor said:

@nizaris

 

Ability to define race for each selected class (optional; see below).-See Gem of Reincarnation artefact. I doubt there will be an additional artefact that does the same.Ability to define specialization for each selected class.

- See Gem of Reincarnation artefact. I doubt there will be an additional artefact that does the same.

 

Ability to define traits for each selected class.- Isn't there an artie that lets you reset traits every month already?

 

 

Holy bat Internet Explorer does crazy things to the formatting.

Two reasons why I think that IRE should create something similar to this:

• Multiclass is going to generate more credit sales as people buy credits to trans their second class skills. Without something like this, people will be limited in their class choices by their already-selected traits. This, in turn, will limit their class choices, impacting credit sales.
• The Gem of Reincarnation and Grimiore of Adaptation provide different functionality than what I am suggesting here, and would still serve a use in this idea. Different functionality: With the existing artefacts, there is a limitation on how often they can be used that this idea would see to. This idea would allow people to switch class and stats more often. Grimiore and Gem still useful: The traits and specialization packs would be just as set once they are established as they are now. One could only flip between them, not make changes to them. A grimiore and gem would be very useful in making ongoing changes.

Kiusha

It would make more sense from an IC perspective to leave traits as they are, aside from the benefits from artefacts. After all, they are supposedly the result of what you've been doing with your life. Besides, changing class would not change basic things like intelligence, just the skills you use. A single race/specialisation/trait reset would be plenty for people to choose carefully what they want with multiclassing.

Eld

Kiusha said:

It would make more sense from an IC perspective to leave traits as they are, aside from the benefits from artefacts. After all, they are supposedly the result of what you've been doing with your life. Besides, changing class would not change basic things like intelligence, just the skills you use. A single race/specialisation/trait reset would be plenty for people to choose carefully what they want with multiclassing.

The "result of what you've been doing with your life" could be argued for minor traits, but doesn't really make sense for majors, which would be more important. Choice of a single race spec and set of traits to match multiple classes would severely limit your choice of class combinations. 

Sena

I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.

Eld

Sena said:

I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.

Yeah, that's a reasonable argument for it. I just see it leading to everyone just speccing con (even more than now), which is kind of boring.

Iocun

Sena said:

I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.

I sort of agree that it's a sensible thing if it's easier to multiclass between two similar classes than two completely different one. The issue however is that not all classes that are similar RP-wise have similar stat requirements and vice versa. There are also classes with barely any stat relevance at all (say, jesters), as well as such who can be played with all sorts of different stat builds (e.g. monk), which might make these classes particularly popular, despite there not being any IC reason for them being so popular.

And making people choose between specialising for one class or choosing compromise stats may lead to overly many people going for constitution as the "default stat", which would be contrary to Achaea's recent developments, such as the serpent dex changes, or the generally increased focus on offence rather than defence.

On the other hand, I guess most people won't do combat with all their classes anyways. They might have one combat class, one bashing class, one utility class, etc.

Sena

I am curious about what what the most common results would be. Whether it would primarily lead to people choosing more general builds (like pure con/defence), a lot more gem/grimoire purchases, a preference for more compatible classes, specialising in one class and being subpar in the other(s), etc.

Trevize

Sena said:

I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.

This is why I'd prefer them to be more on the limited side. Lean multiclass towards ones that make RP sense (either by having the skills necessary naturally, or through magical 'artifacts'). I would prefer to see more combinations like monk/druid, serpent/blademaster, sylvan/shaman than a bunch of min/maxing. I know this wouldn't remove them, but it should help keep it better.

Trevize

Sena said:

I am curious about what what the most common results would be. Whether it would primarily lead to people choosing more general builds (like pure con/defence), a lot more gem/grimoire purchases, a preference for more compatible classes, specialising in one class and being subpar in the other(s), etc.

Unfortunately, depending on how they implement it, I'm predicting a -lot- of X/serpent combos.

Shirszae

Trevize said:

Sena said:

I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.

This is why I'd prefer them to be more on the limited side. Lean multiclass towards ones that make RP sense (either by having the skills necessary naturally, or through magical 'artifacts'). I would prefer to see more combinations like monk/druid, serpent/blademaster, sylvan/shaman than a bunch of min/maxing. I know this wouldn't remove them, but it should help keep it better.

What do you even mean by 'having the skills necessary naturally?' 

Trevize

Shirszae said:

Trevize said:

Sena said:

I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.

This is why I'd prefer them to be more on the limited side. Lean multiclass towards ones that make RP sense (either by having the skills necessary naturally, or through magical 'artifacts'). I would prefer to see more combinations like monk/druid, serpent/blademaster, sylvan/shaman than a bunch of min/maxing. I know this wouldn't remove them, but it should help keep it better.

What do you even mean by 'having the skills necessary naturally?' 

That was from an RP standpoint - stats or arties (gem of transmutation).

Anedhel

Your combinations don't make much sense, I'm afraid, Trevize. Monk and druid don't share much, stat-wise, in common, nor do they share flavor in common. Serpent and Blademaster, at the moment, do not, either. Sylvan shaman nominally, I suppose, but I think it's probably more common to see con spec in shamans than int spec. I'm not trying to knock the argument, I just don't think it's being presented in the right way.

Eld

Anedhel said:

Your combinations don't make much sense, I'm afraid, Trevize. Monk and druid don't share much, stat-wise, in common, nor do they share flavor in common. Serpent and Blademaster, at the moment, do not, either. Sylvan shaman nominally, I suppose, but I think it's probably more common to see con spec in shamans than int spec. I'm not trying to knock the argument, I just don't think it's being presented in the right way.

Monk and druid would work fine for stats - strength or con spec, nimble; monk could be made to work with most classes rp-wise. Serpent and blademaster both have stealth, to some extent, but blademaster doesn't have much use for dex - but it doesn't have much use for any stat but con, either. As far as i know, most shamans spec con, too. Unsure about sylvan post classleads. Biggest conflict there is probably that Shaman wants nimble and sylvan wants quick witted (i think).

Anedhel

Which is what I'm saying. The only classes that have synergy where stats are concerned rely on constitution, with the exception of a few notable pairs, such as magi/occie, stuff like that.

I just don't think it's very easy to defend rewarding a bland choice like con specialization, when the admins are trying to push achaeans to become more diverse in the stats they try and raise.

Tesha

I am probably going to have to multiclass Priest/Paladin so I can have two different bloodsworns (not active at the same time!). Or would I be able to bloodsworn a Priest as a Paladin and have dual Priest sworns? The possibilities! :O

Anedhel

Double bloodsworn so much win.

Eld

I misread part of your post initially. Still, I think much of the reason that most of the pairs that would work with the same stats would be con specced is that so many classes currently don't have much incentive to spec anything else. Assuming the current trend continues, you may well see more viable pairs in the future. I'm still not sure I buy the argument for incentivizing multiclassing with classes that share primary stats and traits, though.

Anedhel

I don't think multiclass'll ever be something you can limit/rationalize mechanically. Should be a flavor thing. Hopefully, people won't just pick things for fullest mechanical effect, but you'll never be able to stop those who do.

Nim

Eld said:

Serpent and blademaster both have stealth, to some extent, but blademaster doesn't have much use for dex - but it doesn't have much use for any stat but con, either.

I think I remember someone saying that they were considering ways of making Dex more useful to blademasters. I might have wanted it so badly that I just hallucinated it, though!

Zythaar

Tesha said:

I am probably going to have to multiclass Priest/Paladin so I can have two different bloodsworns (not active at the same time!). Or would I be able to bloodsworn a Priest as a Paladin and have dual Priest sworns? The possibilities! :O

What about...Bloodsworn with yourself? lol.

 

On a serious note, I'm quite concerned about multiclassing a lot more than i'm excited for it. I would like to see sort of a "dabbling" in other classes, but I think you should definitely be -better- in your main class. I like classes defining much of your character. But that's just me...I think picking what you are should be a hard choice. Not just, eh, i'll pull out the credit card and add another class.

 

 

EDIT: I do like how it will be easier to keep your main and cut down on alts...but like I said I'd prefer dabbling so you could like test out a class before switching or something. I dunno, i'll wait and see how they play it out...for now i'll be cautiously optimistic.

Kiusha

Nim said:

I think I remember someone saying that they were considering ways of making Dex more useful to blademasters. I might have wanted it so badly that I just hallucinated it, though!

I believe it was Tecton in the Mayaween Q&A and he said that about Blademaster, Bard and ... Jester?

Synbios

Tesha said:

I am probably going to have to multiclass Priest/Paladin so I can have two different bloodsworns (not active at the same time!). Or would I be able to bloodsworn a Priest as a Paladin and have dual Priest sworns? The possibilities! :O

@Tesha: Double-Swords are so old-fashioned. Move over, knights, Double-Sworns are the hottest thing in town!

Sylvance

Cathy said:

Borran said:

I really wish I had some idea of the changes weaponry and trade skill replacements are going to have on some classes... Forging is Borran's favorite part of knight classes. And what more could Sentinels gain in place if Concoctions? The class is already pretty well fleshed out.

I think they'll get their axe skills given a whole tree, divorcing them from woodlore - making woodlore about traps and animals. Don't quote me on that though.