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Multiclassing

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  • AnaidianaAnaidiana Member Posts: 826 @ - Epic Achaean
    monk/druid. Herb garden FTW.


    image
    Prythe
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,542 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, you're on drugs if you think they'll let you switch race/traits as a standard part of multiclassing when they already sell the gem/grimoire.

    Also, Internet Explorer is for scrubs.

    Sylvance
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I really wish I had some idea of the changes weaponry and trade skill replacements are going to have on some classes... Forging is Borran's favorite part of knight classes. And what more could Sentinels gain in place if Concoctions? The class is already pretty well fleshed out.

  • CathyCathy Member Posts: 377 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Borran said:
    I really wish I had some idea of the changes weaponry and trade skill replacements are going to have on some classes... Forging is Borran's favorite part of knight classes. And what more could Sentinels gain in place if Concoctions? The class is already pretty well fleshed out.
    I think they'll get their axe skills given a whole tree, divorcing them from woodlore - making woodlore about traps and animals. Don't quote me on that though.
    Achieved dragon on the 13th of Aeguary, 634 - aged 21 and 1 month and 21 days.

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  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What sentinel really needs is a spear/trident expansion. They don't use them nearly enough.
    MelodieTrevizeSilas
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited November 2013
    Rangor said:

    Internet Explorer does crazy things

    QFT

    That aside, I'd rather races, traits, and statpacks not change with class automatically. Gem of Reincarnation and Grimoire of Adaptation already provide those.

    Description would be simple to change, no need to do that automatically.

    I would like to see one artefact, that allows you to select unique statpacks and/or traits (not race!) per class.
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  • NizarisNizaris The Holy City of MhaldorMember Posts: 537 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Rangor said:

    @nizaris

     

    Ability to define race for each selected class (optional; see below).-See Gem of Reincarnation artefact. I doubt there will be an additional artefact that does the same.Ability to define specialization for each selected class.

    - See Gem of Reincarnation artefact. I doubt there will be an additional artefact that does the same.

     

    Ability to define traits for each selected class.- Isn't there an artie that lets you reset traits every month already?

     

     

    Holy bat Internet Explorer does crazy things to the formatting.



    Two reasons why I think that IRE should create something similar to this:

    • Multiclass is going to generate more credit sales as people buy credits to trans their second class skills. Without something like this, people will be limited in their class choices by their already-selected traits. This, in turn, will limit their class choices, impacting credit sales.
    • The Gem of Reincarnation and Grimiore of Adaptation provide different functionality than what I am suggesting here, and would still serve a use in this idea. Different functionality: With the existing artefacts, there is a limitation on how often they can be used that this idea would see to. This idea would allow people to switch class and stats more often. Grimiore and Gem still useful: The traits and specialization packs would be just as set once they are established as they are now. One could only flip between them, not make changes to them. A grimiore and gem would be very useful in making ongoing changes.
    image
  • KiushaKiusha Member Posts: 16 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    It would make more sense from an IC perspective to leave traits as they are, aside from the benefits from artefacts. After all, they are supposedly the result of what you've been doing with your life. Besides, changing class would not change basic things like intelligence, just the skills you use. A single race/specialisation/trait reset would be plenty for people to choose carefully what they want with multiclassing.
    NakariBorranZythaar
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kiusha said:
    It would make more sense from an IC perspective to leave traits as they are, aside from the benefits from artefacts. After all, they are supposedly the result of what you've been doing with your life. Besides, changing class would not change basic things like intelligence, just the skills you use. A single race/specialisation/trait reset would be plenty for people to choose carefully what they want with multiclassing.
    The "result of what you've been doing with your life" could be argued for minor traits, but doesn't really make sense for majors, which would be more important. Choice of a single race spec and set of traits to match multiple classes would severely limit your choice of class combinations. 
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.
    Yeah, that's a reasonable argument for it. I just see it leading to everyone just speccing con (even more than now), which is kind of boring.
    BorranTrevize
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.
    I sort of agree that it's a sensible thing if it's easier to multiclass between two similar classes than two completely different one. The issue however is that not all classes that are similar RP-wise have similar stat requirements and vice versa. There are also classes with barely any stat relevance at all (say, jesters), as well as such who can be played with all sorts of different stat builds (e.g. monk), which might make these classes particularly popular, despite there not being any IC reason for them being so popular.

    And making people choose between specialising for one class or choosing compromise stats may lead to overly many people going for constitution as the "default stat", which would be contrary to Achaea's recent developments, such as the serpent dex changes, or the generally increased focus on offence rather than defence.

    On the other hand, I guess most people won't do combat with all their classes anyways. They might have one combat class, one bashing class, one utility class, etc.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I am curious about what what the most common results would be. Whether it would primarily lead to people choosing more general builds (like pure con/defence), a lot more gem/grimoire purchases, a preference for more compatible classes, specialising in one class and being subpar in the other(s), etc.
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Sena said:
    I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.
    This is why I'd prefer them to be more on the limited side. Lean multiclass towards ones that make RP sense (either by having the skills necessary naturally, or through magical 'artifacts'). I would prefer to see more combinations like monk/druid, serpent/blademaster, sylvan/shaman than a bunch of min/maxing. I know this wouldn't remove them, but it should help keep it better.
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  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Sena said:
    I am curious about what what the most common results would be. Whether it would primarily lead to people choosing more general builds (like pure con/defence), a lot more gem/grimoire purchases, a preference for more compatible classes, specialising in one class and being subpar in the other(s), etc.
    Unfortunately, depending on how they implement it, I'm predicting a -lot- of X/serpent combos.
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    EldNimHaldon
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,091 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Trevize said:
    Sena said:
    I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.
    This is why I'd prefer them to be more on the limited side. Lean multiclass towards ones that make RP sense (either by having the skills necessary naturally, or through magical 'artifacts'). I would prefer to see more combinations like monk/druid, serpent/blademaster, sylvan/shaman than a bunch of min/maxing. I know this wouldn't remove them, but it should help keep it better.
    What do you even mean by 'having the skills necessary naturally?' 

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  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    Trevize said:
    Sena said:
    I like the idea of it being harder (or more expensive) to use two very different classes than it is to use two more similar (at least in terms of stats) classes. I also like the idea of having to (normally, without a gem/grimoire) choose between specialising in one class with your traits/stats or choosing traits/stats that are more generally useful for both, but not as specialised for either.
    This is why I'd prefer them to be more on the limited side. Lean multiclass towards ones that make RP sense (either by having the skills necessary naturally, or through magical 'artifacts'). I would prefer to see more combinations like monk/druid, serpent/blademaster, sylvan/shaman than a bunch of min/maxing. I know this wouldn't remove them, but it should help keep it better.
    What do you even mean by 'having the skills necessary naturally?' 
    That was from an RP standpoint - stats or arties (gem of transmutation).
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  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Your combinations don't make much sense, I'm afraid, Trevize. Monk and druid don't share much, stat-wise, in common, nor do they share flavor in common. Serpent and Blademaster, at the moment, do not, either. Sylvan shaman nominally, I suppose, but I think it's probably more common to see con spec in shamans than int spec. I'm not trying to knock the argument, I just don't think it's being presented in the right way.
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Anedhel said:
    Your combinations don't make much sense, I'm afraid, Trevize. Monk and druid don't share much, stat-wise, in common, nor do they share flavor in common. Serpent and Blademaster, at the moment, do not, either. Sylvan shaman nominally, I suppose, but I think it's probably more common to see con spec in shamans than int spec. I'm not trying to knock the argument, I just don't think it's being presented in the right way.
    Monk and druid would work fine for stats - strength or con spec, nimble; monk could be made to work with most classes rp-wise. Serpent and blademaster both have stealth, to some extent, but blademaster doesn't have much use for dex - but it doesn't have much use for any stat but con, either. As far as i know, most shamans spec con, too. Unsure about sylvan post classleads. Biggest conflict there is probably that Shaman wants nimble and sylvan wants quick witted (i think).
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Which is what I'm saying. The only classes that have synergy where stats are concerned rely on constitution, with the exception of a few notable pairs, such as magi/occie, stuff like that.

    I just don't think it's very easy to defend rewarding a bland choice like con specialization, when the admins are trying to push achaeans to become more diverse in the stats they try and raise.
  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,882 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2013
    I am probably going to have to multiclass Priest/Paladin so I can have two different bloodsworns (not active at the same time!). Or would I be able to bloodsworn a Priest as a Paladin and have dual Priest sworns? The possibilities! :O

     i'm a rebel

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Double bloodsworn so much win.
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I misread part of your post initially. Still, I think much of the reason that most of the pairs that would work with the same stats would be con specced is that so many classes currently don't have much incentive to spec anything else. Assuming the current trend continues, you may well see more viable pairs in the future. I'm still not sure I buy the argument for incentivizing multiclassing with classes that share primary stats and traits, though.
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't think multiclass'll ever be something you can limit/rationalize mechanically. Should be a flavor thing. Hopefully, people won't just pick things for fullest mechanical effect, but you'll never be able to stop those who do.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eld said:
    Serpent and blademaster both have stealth, to some extent, but blademaster doesn't have much use for dex - but it doesn't have much use for any stat but con, either.

    I think I remember someone saying that they were considering ways of making Dex more useful to blademasters. I might have wanted it so badly that I just hallucinated it, though!

    Trevize
  • ZythaarZythaar Member Posts: 25 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited November 2013
    Tesha said:
    I am probably going to have to multiclass Priest/Paladin so I can have two different bloodsworns (not active at the same time!). Or would I be able to bloodsworn a Priest as a Paladin and have dual Priest sworns? The possibilities! :O


    What about...Bloodsworn with yourself? :o lol.

     

    On a serious note, I'm quite concerned about multiclassing a lot more than i'm excited for it. I would like to see sort of a "dabbling" in other classes, but I think you should definitely be -better- in your main class. I like classes defining much of your character. But that's just me...I think picking what you are should be a hard choice. Not just, eh, i'll pull out the credit card and add another class.

     

     

    EDIT: I do like how it will be easier to keep your main and cut down on alts...but like I said I'd prefer dabbling so you could like test out a class before switching or something. I dunno, i'll wait and see how they play it out...for now i'll be cautiously optimistic. :)

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  • KiushaKiusha Member Posts: 16 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Nim said:

    I think I remember someone saying that they were considering ways of making Dex more useful to blademasters. I might have wanted it so badly that I just hallucinated it, though!


    I believe it was Tecton in the Mayaween Q&A and he said that about Blademaster, Bard and ... Jester?
    Nim
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,561 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tesha said:
    I am probably going to have to multiclass Priest/Paladin so I can have two different bloodsworns (not active at the same time!). Or would I be able to bloodsworn a Priest as a Paladin and have dual Priest sworns? The possibilities! :O

    @Tesha: Double-Swords are so old-fashioned. Move over, knights, Double-Sworns are the hottest thing in town!

    Tesha
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Cathy said:
    Borran said:
    I really wish I had some idea of the changes weaponry and trade skill replacements are going to have on some classes... Forging is Borran's favorite part of knight classes. And what more could Sentinels gain in place if Concoctions? The class is already pretty well fleshed out.
    I think they'll get their axe skills given a whole tree, divorcing them from woodlore - making woodlore about traps and animals. Don't quote me on that though.

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