Combat Logs

Tesha

oh, irrelevant

Achilles

Xith said:

(Cyrene has something of a monopoly on bards, I guess. I suspect the reason they don't get raided too much is that the raiders spend all their time dancing in a cave in the mountains.)

Sounds like a Rave.

Mishgul

shutup tvistor serpents are useless

Avto

Hashan hiring up mercenaries to defend them would be cool. I am sure many would be drawn.

Tvistor

If by 'many' you mean 'Ashtan' and by 'cool' you mean 'fifty pages of forum complaints' then hell yes.

Vayne

Jacen said:

I just don't know how to balance it man. I don't want the raiding to stop, but I don't want to walk into a kill room and get slaughtered everytime. I hate it when they get bored and leave, but I don't know what else to do. I don't want them to think we're giving up or that we wished the conflict to stop, but if situations like this keep happening, they'll just stop coming.

Like Jacen said, we used at as a learning experience, we tried a few different gambits which all didn't work then just held back and let them stay dug in on defendable until they made a move or got bored.

I would love a Hashani-factioned class, but I do not really see it happening. Hashan does have the advantage of potentially having a wide array of classes at the moment, all bar Paladins/Priests, which would be awesome if we had more that were capable/around, again the factional classes tend to get drawn to their faction even if they are not explicitly banned from being in others.

Calling in Ashtani support would result in the gratifying scenario of the refugees being dead, but it would quickly become Ashtan's show with Hashan increasingly tangental, not learning much, and generally being frustrated. I would much rather have us struggle on by ourselves then lean on outsiders. Now if Ourania and Babel want to team up and do something terrible to the refugees RP-wise, I am game for that!

Cooper

Hashan has never, ever been neutral in the entire history of the game. Anyone who says or thinks that is wrong and dumb.

Zeon

Jacen said:

I just don't know how to balance it man. I don't want the raiding to stop, but I don't want to walk into a kill room and get slaughtered everytime. I hate it when they get bored and leave, but I don't know what else to do. I don't want them to think we're giving up or that we wished the conflict to stop, but if situations like this keep happening, they'll just stop coming.

Find the person in their group who gets the least numbers of kills (maybe they're a shaman or priest or something). Also make sure this person isn't leading the raids (the kind of person that would join for the fun of raiding or because they were ordered to by their God). Have everyone target this person and kill them over and over over. Try and do this inside your city when you can to avoid xp loss. If you need to pit everyone else to just kill this person, do it. Hit them so hard that they start to lose whole levels of experience.* Between not getting kills, spending their raid time praying, and losing experience, this person will eventually start replying "no thanks" when they get tells from the raid leader asking them if they want to bash Hashan. Once this happens focus another person and rinse and repeat. If a former victim ever decides to start raiding again, make sure to target them first and remind them how much fun you can make things for them.

If your core offensive group (if you even have one) is dedicated enough some of these things out: Try and gank this person when they're bashing as well, try and make their time in realms as unenjoyable as possible. If you have necromancers, between raids try and kill yourself to farm up nice healthy stacks of soulspears. Use breathstream + soulspear and lineofsight to instantkill this person, but make sure not to waste soulspears on any other raiders because you'll need them when the person finishes praying. Also have your occultists grab their body when they die bashing if possible, no truename is an unnecessary truename if it causes your victim anguish. At first a person might just hide in a completely safe place and try and socialize with others, trying to trick themselves into thinking they've won because you can't touch them. This is the point where you target the next weakest raiding link. Eventually your former victim will do one of two things. a) If they decide to leave their safe room and try to play Achaea, it's very important that you break them. If you don't think that they understand that they're not allowed to enjoy doing ANYTHING outside their city without travelling 10 men deep, then you need to keep at it. b) They'll grow bored of talking on clans and idling in one room, so they'll qq. The latter is really what you're hoping for and if they do decide to show their face in the realms again one, you can probably give them a break because their will has already been broken.

*This is hard with the no prayer xp loss, but still possible. When Ashtan took down icons last I lost like 90-120% of level 95 in the few hours it lasted (the entire war was like 24 hours or something absurd like that).

Vaehl

The above is very impressive and also true.

Xith

Achilles said:

Xith said:

(Cyrene has something of a monopoly on bards, I guess. I suspect the reason they don't get raided too much is that the raiders spend all their time dancing in a cave in the mountains.)

Sounds like a Rave.

Just got a fabulous mental image of Phaestus with a Skrillex hairdo behind His heavenly DJ equipment, and all the Shamans doing swiftcurse glove shows.

D-D-D-D-Drop the harms! DZZZ-dzzzz.

Jacen

That sounds very nice in theory, but uh... don't you think it'd end up the other way? We'd jump a couple of bashing raiders like once or twice, then we can't walk outside the city without Aurora's order coming down on us?

Vaehl

Hide on ship/journal/QQ. Only leave city if you notice them out of New Hope alone and then go in with the guys. Never fight them with even forces, always have the superior number. Anytime they want to leave they'll have to with a group, which is tedious and may lead to them raging and possibly rage QQing when you find them alone and murder them.

Patience is the key. Strike when the time is right.

Tesha

I am pretty sure trying to psychologically break someone is a lot harder than just learning how to defend, lol. Just keep trying, stop worrying so much. Enjoy yourself and try to have fun with the losses, too. If you only have fun when you win, you are not going to be happy half-ish of the time.

Also you guys had 13ish people in your city when we were raiding last night, I have no idea why you only brought 7. 

Sohl

Not everyone likes to defend. As you raid more, you'll start to get an idea of which citizens are likely to participate, and you'll be able to judge better how many they actually have, instead of just the raw number off cwho.

Jacen

The only people that defend are in CLHELP HL

Jarrod

I'm sure that's not a complete list of potential defenders, so it's not something to base a list off of.

I agree with Sohl though, *shallam doesn't know who's going to defend so they always over-bring people, no judge of what the defense force will look like after they showup (maybe they assume 10 people will appear in realms at raid start like they would when Shallam got raided?).

On a different note, maybe if *shallam was willing to actually put themselves in any sort of risk, besides 'let's get to defendable and turtle with a totem and beckon' it would be more fun for both sides, instead of *shallam apparently trying to farm kills instead of looking for interesting fights.

Shunsui

Jarrod said:

On a different note, maybe if *shallam was willing to actually put themselves in any sort of risk, besides 'let's get to defendable and turtle with a totem and beckon' it would be more fun for both sides, instead of *shallam apparently trying to farm kills instead of looking for interesting fights.

I hate this, I hate this with a passion. Turtling down just turns everything into range/los fights which are boring as sin, and encourages defending groups to never rush for big, fun, epic melee fights. I wish we would at least set up shop within city limits when doing stuff like that, at least the no exp loss/potential to call guards would encourage people to rush.

Vayne

Jarrod said:

On a different note, maybe if *shallam was willing to actually put themselves in any sort of risk, besides 'let's get to defendable and turtle with a totem and beckon' it would be more fun for both sides, instead of *shallam apparently trying to farm kills instead of looking for interesting fights.

This is about the feeling I am getting. It's better to just let them sit on defendable smudging our totems then get beckoned into rites, vibes, and/or totem.

Cahin

Playing like a three man.

Cooper

Every time I've raided Hashan I've gotten pitted at -least- once. I got pitted 3 times last night. Usually they have 2-3 people that can pit, so we account for that. They have absolutely no control with pit and a seemingly infinite amount of karma (they aren't so hot on astralform use like Tanris and co., so they have more karma to burn on pit).

@Jarrod - we'd love to play the whole in city thing like you used to do, but we just don't have the infiltration classes and transportation abilities you guys did that made that possible (re: earrings/doppie lust/pathfinder/etc)

p.s. it would be cool if Ashtan was looking for interesting fights instead of astraling into New Hope, earring in a group of 3-10, killing 1 or 2 people and then jetting back to Ashtan instantly

Niks

Jarrod said:

I'm sure that's not a complete list of potential defenders, so it's not something to base a list off of.

I agree with Sohl though, *shallam doesn't know who's going to defend so they always over-bring people, no judge of what the defense force will look like after they showup (maybe they assume 10 people will appear in realms at raid start like they would when Shallam got raided?).

On a different note, maybe if *shallam was willing to actually put themselves in any sort of risk, besides 'let's get to defendable and turtle with a totem and beckon' it would be more fun for both sides, instead of *shallam apparently trying to farm kills instead of looking for interesting fights.

I think you're forgetting that we don't have tanks and can't participate in the war system per-se, we also don't have a team of monks/doppleganger users to conduct Ashtan-style raids. Besides the time we get enough Dragons to guard bash (which Hashan furiously whines at on forums), defendable camping is a pretty common Ashtani strategy back from Shallam days.

I feel no remorse at all tbh for a faction that started attacking us first. Shouldn't've done it if you didn't want to keep it up and feel free to keel over and ask for peace if you can't keep it up.

Iphis

Zeon said:

Jacen said:

I just don't know how to balance it man. I don't want the raiding to stop, but I don't want to walk into a kill room and get slaughtered everytime. I hate it when they get bored and leave, but I don't know what else to do. I don't want them to think we're giving up or that we wished the conflict to stop, but if situations like this keep happening, they'll just stop coming.

Find the person in their group who gets the least numbers of kills (maybe they're a shaman or priest or something). Also make sure this person isn't leading the raids (the kind of person that would join for the fun of raiding or because they were ordered to by their God). Have everyone target this person and kill them over and over over. Try and do this inside your city when you can to avoid xp loss. If you need to pit everyone else to just kill this person, do it. Hit them so hard that they start to lose whole levels of experience.* Between not getting kills, spending their raid time praying, and losing experience, this person will eventually start replying "no thanks" when they get tells from the raid leader asking them if they want to bash Hashan. Once this happens focus another person and rinse and repeat. If a former victim ever decides to start raiding again, make sure to target them first and remind them how much fun you can make things for them.

If your core offensive group (if you even have one) is dedicated enough some of these things out: Try and gank this person when they're bashing as well, try and make their time in realms as unenjoyable as possible. If you have necromancers, between raids try and kill yourself to farm up nice healthy stacks of soulspears. Use breathstream + soulspear and lineofsight to instantkill this person, but make sure not to waste soulspears on any other raiders because you'll need them when the person finishes praying. Also have your occultists grab their body when they die bashing if possible, no truename is an unnecessary truename if it causes your victim anguish. At first a person might just hide in a completely safe place and try and socialize with others, trying to trick themselves into thinking they've won because you can't touch them. This is the point where you target the next weakest raiding link. Eventually your former victim will do one of two things. a) If they decide to leave their safe room and try to play Achaea, it's very important that you break them. If you don't think that they understand that they're not allowed to enjoy doing ANYTHING outside their city without travelling 10 men deep, then you need to keep at it. b) They'll grow bored of talking on clans and idling in one room, so they'll qq. The latter is really what you're hoping for and if they do decide to show their face in the realms again one, you can probably give them a break because their will has already been broken.

*This is hard with the no prayer xp loss, but still possible. When Ashtan took down icons last I lost like 90-120% of level 95 in the few hours it lasted (the entire war was like 24 hours or something absurd like that).

So griefing a player into being so frustrated they feel like quitting the game, is acceptable?? 

Your post pretty much sums up the 'cancer' of Achaea, the type of attitude that needs to be stomped out instead of encouraged. People who act like what you've said, are the ones that have NO PLACE in Achaea, not the ones trying to have a little bit of fun trying to raid or defend. 

Zeon. It doesn't mean much, but you just lost any respect I had for you, to encourage this sort of behaviour. 

Tesha

I think he was kidding... I hope he was, at least. 

Bonko

Iphis said:

So griefing a player into being so frustrated they feel like quitting the game, is acceptable?? 

Your post pretty much sums up the 'cancer' of Achaea, the type of attitude that needs to be stomped out instead of encouraged. People who act like what you've said, are the ones that have NO PLACE in Achaea, not the ones trying to have a little bit of fun trying to raid or defend. 

Zeon. It doesn't mean much, but you just lost any respect I had for you, to encourage this sort of behaviour. 

Cynlael

Someone needs a comment that Bonko can't have a .gif reply to.
Awkward moment when someone actually took Zeons post seriously too.

Mizik

Why doesn't Shallam get more earrings?

Last count you guys out-artied us by a lot!

Jacen

Mizik said:

Why doesn't Shallam get more earrings?

Last count you guys out-artied us by a lot!

Imagine how much they out artie us by

Bonko

Cynlael said:

Someone needs a comment that Bonko can't have a .gif reply to.
Awkward moment when someone actually took Zeons post seriously too.

Zeon

Iphis said:

Zeon. It doesn't mean much, but you just lost any respect I had for you, to encourage this sort of behaviour. 

Thankfully it's your tears that satiate me, not your respect.

Tvistor

Should have joined Team Hashan just to enact Operation Zeon and grief Refugees out. The order would be like Lyr/Achilles/Sothantos/Cooper and I'd bring the remnants of Ashtan's A-Team.