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Comments
Side note, every time somebody mentions Might I remember that I should test it to see exactly what it can and can't stop nowadays. Then I forget. Does anybody have a list of what it does and doesn't fix?
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Obviously, re-afflicting weariness when you see Might is the smartest move since it has such a long balance/EQ on use.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
If your finisher is disembowel there should be no difference. Impale got changed a while ago to only require one arm. You can't cripple while impaled anymore, so the requirements for disembowel don't matter.
Of course, if something isn't working correctly there, that's a different matter entirely.
Granted, that's just one class. Monk, itself, seems like it might suffer from Cripple as Scythe and BBT setups have gotten more split-second at the end, but beyond that? DWB doesn't care about Cripple at all. S&B is usually all right because of the wider margins on single-leg Impale. 2H kinda suffers with Devastate/Impale, but half the time doesn't kill with DSB anyway. Blademaster can cope just fine. I don't know how bad it is for affliction-based classes, but I assume paralysis stops Cripple and thus it's unavailable at most pivotal moments.
Overall, Cripple doesn't strike me as a huge imbalance. It's strong against a few classes, but seems manageable for most. Maybe I just haven't seen the worst cases.
Paralysis doesn't stop cripple. Need to break an arm.
I think the issue for S&B and blademaster doing impale setups is moreso the mind throw though. The cripple is an issue for S&B doing focuslock/damn setups (usually to avoid having to deal with mind throw), which is where this conversation started.
holy shit that felt amazing.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/a5eca144
With DWC the cripple comes after the takedown, needing 4 mending before being able to DSL leg two by which time leg one is healed. Let alone having two legs broken when impaling.
The two are incomparable.
@Makarios @Aerek
I have to realize that you guys are way better than me and I don't just suck when I lose. Although I feel like being hard on myself gets me better.
Anyway thanks for the fights!
@Mizik:
Incomparable, perhaps. Problematic, I'd not say so.
Couple of points that make me lean towards that stance:
1) Dual cuttings attack rate blows monk out of the water - waiting for them to attack before setting off the break chain is basically problem solved. That does assume they're actively fighting back, though of course, which can't be an absolute assumption.
2: The option to break an arm is definitely on the table with faster rsl now. I see the worst scenario going something like this, let's assume around a 2 second base dsl for the unartefacted crowd.
0s: break arm epteth/epseth
few choices here, but let's assume they pick the one that makes most sense defensively.
0s: apply mending to arms.
If they just apply resto, its a free second/third breaks, no cripple.
1s: apply restoration to arms
before 2s: touch shield
2s: rsl break leg epteth
4s: still off salve bal, still two broken arms, still off eq. Break other leg delph/delph. Game.
Let's assume they parry well, and you prestuck nausea, so can only assure the first dsl will hit (hence needing that delph/delph early on). Even with good parrying you're about 50 50 for the kill, but 50 50 just won't cut it sometimes:
0s: break arm epteth/epseth
0s: apply mending to arms.
1s: apply restoration to arms
before 2s: touch shield
2s: rsl untargeted epteth
4s: still off salve bal with two broken arms (so no parry/shield/cripple etc). Double delph leg
5s: got options here. apply mending to arms could potentially let you tree and cripple, however its going to at most buy you one second if they cure properly, which you will have had to spend to get the cripple off anyway. The window is also very small. If you miss it, curing that mending break will kill you. If tree is not up, no good options here.
6s: dsl epteth/epteth or whatever strikes your fancy. Break other leg. Even if they cure arms at this point, its too late for cripple to avoid dsb.
There is also an inherent latency on cures where there isn't for offensive queueing, so these numbers will be slightly less conservative in a live scenario on the defensive end.
I'm going to stop here because doing this on my phone is really hard and I just wanted to outline a brief example of what I was leaning towards. Torso is still very problematic for dual cutting and I'd like to see some classleads for that, because I think even in traditional setups its rather clunky.
Happy to discuss this further though. Probably not in this thread because it doesn't really lend itself well to decent discourse with me only checking sparadically for this week, but if you have thoughts, drop me a pm or some such. Or file a classlead and message me about it, I'm happy to talk about those.
Missing torso in your setups. Otherwise it'd be same as SNB - 2 limb kill. We need 3 limbs.
Adding a 4th limb doesn't work since by the time you break the second leg 4 breaks later the arm is long cured.
Maybe the requirement for double delph is a problem.
None of these multi break scenarios consider tumble.
Guess I'll classlead this when I get home, but if we're discussing stuff right now:
I've mentioned in the past the possibility of impale giving some amount of limb damage to torso - would have to be half a level three scimitar doubleslash worth, at least, to not make counting awkward - so that there's no actual requirement to break before, or as part of, your chain, just to get it prepped. The "argument" made against it (I don't recall by who) was that dual cutting would always be guaranteed torso disembowels, which is so absurd I don't think I even bothered to respond to it. Dual cutting having the ability to break leg, break leg, impale, disembowel would really be no different to sword and shield's ability to break leg, break torso, impale, disembowel, which has counters to it if you know what you're doing.
It would need to be a specialisation-based bonus so that Sword and Shield doesn't benefit, though. Could also give it to two-handed, I suppose, and that alleviates all of the concerns I mentioned above.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files