Combat Logs

Ernam

After 20 minutes of chasing around @Dajio in the arena for this combat spar:

Perform force Dajio remove boots (on water)

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/6d09a48a

He has gotten a lot better though.  Beat @Xinna twice in row!

Combat Status Dajio
2014/11/06 14:26:40 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 35  Rating: 337
2014/11/06 14:24:35 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 76  Rating: 302

Exelethril

Or maybe Xinna dc'd, HMMM. The mystery deepens.

Ernam

Dajio:
2014/11/06 15:14:08 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 83  Rating: 248
2014/11/06 15:10:06 vs. Xinna  Result: Loss  Change: -27  Rating: 165
2014/11/06 15:06:33 vs. Xinna  Result: Loss  Change: -59  Rating: 192
2014/11/06 14:57:08 vs. Ernam  Result: Loss  Change: -33  Rating: 251
2014/11/06 14:37:04 vs. Ernam  Result: Loss  Change: -53  Rating: 284
2014/11/06 14:26:40 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 35  Rating: 337
2014/11/06 14:24:35 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 76  Rating: 302

He's actually pretty decent with serpent offense, albeit I haven't seen any illusions (possibly mana conservation).

He got me yesterday with Darkshade (due to me being dumb), but it was intentional and he maintained it for the duration of the darkshade timer.  Props.

Terra

From Ernam's 20 minute spar with Dajio:

5247        Dajio 11/06/14:51  How do you drop a prismatic barrier?  

5248        Dajio 11/06/14:53  Anything else?                           

5249        Dajio 11/06/14:53  He just keeps shielding with the lyre. 

Why does a priest even need to shield? GG.

Ernam

Serpent has a ton of ways to drop/bypass lyre, and I was lyring to catch him on balance for force.  Nothing wrong with it.

Amarillys

Terra said:

Why does a priest even need to shield?

To make people like Dajio ask questions.

Aegoth

Ernam said:

Serpent has a ton of ways to drop/bypass lyre, and I was lyring to catch him on balance for force.  Nothing wrong with it.

by "tons of ways", you must mean one way only... which is to hypno/snap action. Other than that, a serp's boned

Dunn

You can bite through lyre iirc...

or should be able to if not since you can curse/evileye through shield/lyre and can bite through shield.

Terra

Ernam said:

Dajio:
2014/11/06 15:14:08 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 83  Rating: 248
2014/11/06 15:10:06 vs. Xinna  Result: Loss  Change: -27  Rating: 165
2014/11/06 15:06:33 vs. Xinna  Result: Loss  Change: -59  Rating: 192
2014/11/06 14:57:08 vs. Ernam  Result: Loss  Change: -33  Rating: 251
2014/11/06 14:37:04 vs. Ernam  Result: Loss  Change: -53  Rating: 284
2014/11/06 14:26:40 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 35  Rating: 337
2014/11/06 14:24:35 vs. Xinna  Result: Win  Change: 76  Rating: 302

He's actually pretty decent with serpent offense, albeit I haven't seen any illusions (possibly mana conservation).

He got me yesterday with Darkshade (due to me being dumb), but it was intentional and he maintained it for the duration of the darkshade timer.  Props.

Dajio is a pretty solid serpent combatant. Though, serpent vs. bard is not the best proof of that, given that it greatly disfavors the bard.

Basically, you put two momentum classes against each other (that would likely be equals if each had their full offense), but then give one affliction immunity (see, shrugging), and reduce the other's offense by 50% at the same time (weaving/dex spec). My two wins were when I decided to fight like a bitch (running every time I missed a jab to cure up, since my missed jab allowed him to cure up) because everyone was teasing me for losing to him, but then I went back to fighting the fun way (truelock chicken). Unfortunately, when both sides have the other prepped for a truelock, I'm ahead, but then I miss the crucial finishing jab (and he can't miss!), chicken don't work out so well.

I dislike fighting serpents for that reason. To me, the only fun way to stop momentum is with counter-momentum. Hate running. Ergh.

Ernam

Aegoth said:

Ernam said:

Serpent has a ton of ways to drop/bypass lyre, and I was lyring to catch him on balance for force.  Nothing wrong with it.

by "tons of ways", you must mean one way only... which is to hypno/snap action. Other than that, a serp's boned

Well, now that Aegoth is here, we can really get into some deep combat strategy topics.

I'd like to lead with something a little more philosophical, however:

Just because you don't know what the counter to something is doesn't mean there isn't one.  Serpent has a very long list of ways to both bypass and drop lyre.  @Santar actually challenged me to come to clouds and duel him yesterday, under the condition that I ONLY lyre and cure the entire time, just to prove this fact.  I declined, because I know he'd win.

Many classes are boned by lyre.  Serpent is not one of them.

@Xinna I wasn't lulzing at you for losing to Dajio just to clarify.  I was using the fact that he's holding his own against you in the arena as evidence that he's doing pretty damn well.

Santar

Dunn said:

You can bite through lyre iirc...

or should be able to if not since you can curse/evileye through shield/lyre and can bite through shield.

Nope.

Klendathu

Santar said:

Dunn said:

You can bite through lyre iirc...

or should be able to if not since you can curse/evileye through shield/lyre and can bite through shield.

Nope.

HELP ARTEFACTS DEFENSIVE:

     Does not stop order, smoke bomb, incinerate, chill,

        death aura, empress, soul rend, paroxysm, jack in the box,

        body warp, chaos rays, unnamable, grave hands, piety,

        banana peels, tentacles, holocaust globe, knife sigils,

        rite of warding, gravity and tremors vibes, bloodworms,

        untargetted beckon, and demon sear.

     Destroyed by dragon blast, soulspear, and truename.

     Stops trample, star tarot, entity attacks, darts trap, leprosy,

        thornspray, yank, arc, spirit wrack, targetted beckon, all

        bombs other than smoke, nearly all denizens, disruptive

        harmonics, percussia, hailstorm, efreeti, tailsweep,

        rite of demons, vibes (lullaby, creeps, dissipate, palpitation,

        oscillate, energize, disorientation, plague, stridulation,

        revelation, adduction, and dissonance), daegger hunt, and

        shadowstrike.

     Can do while in a prismatic barrier: check abilities, talk on city

        or clan channels, submit a bug report, check the who list for clans

        or cities, check and view config, check defences, virtually anything

        having to do with messages (MSG READ, MSG SEND, MSG LIST, etc),

        check world game or arena status, glance, read help, speak on house

        channel, check house who, check inventory, use market or newbie

        channel, check public news, use a party channel, embrace death, check

        punishments, qq/quit, check rankings, read a log, say things,

        check stat, check tattoos, send a tell, check recent tells, yell.

Atalkez

Need to add Shin Burst to what goes through it.

Ernam

The list of things that bypass it is nowhere near complete.

OK I'll spill.  I'm sure I'm missing a few:

For serpent:
serpent pet bite
relapsing
hypnosis afflictions and action (note: hypochondria, disrupt)
meteors can be launched (prior to dropping prismatic)
bombs
at least one or two other sneaky things.

Oh yeah, and flay and dispel.  Thanks @Aegoth!

Aegoth

Ernam said:

Aegoth said:

Ernam said:

Serpent has a ton of ways to drop/bypass lyre, and I was lyring to catch him on balance for force.  Nothing wrong with it.

by "tons of ways", you must mean one way only... which is to hypno/snap action. Other than that, a serp's boned

Well, now that Aegoth is here, we can really get into some deep combat strategy topics.

I'd like to lead with something a little more philosophical, however:

Just because you don't know what the counter to something is doesn't mean there isn't one.  Serpent has a very long list of ways to both bypass and drop lyre.  @Santar actually challenged me to come to clouds and duel him yesterday, under the condition that I ONLY lyre and cure the entire time, just to prove this fact.  I declined, because I know he'd win.

Many classes are boned by lyre.  Serpent is not one of them.

Gonna go out on a limb here and say you don't know what you're talking about yet again...

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/f9d8daab

Jhui

if you can hypno, suggest, and seal, serp is just fine vs lyre.

Not sure if you can, but if you can, discussion should be over.

Aegoth

yea, they can. That's still just one method, not a "very long list". It's effective, no doubt about it, but it's not "holy shit serpents are immune to lyres"

Santar

Serps do so-so against lyres. As far as classes vs. lyre goes, Serp is near the bottom in terms of effectiveness against lyre. They're not the absolute worst against it though, and they can do ok vs. someone spamming lyre.

Mishgul

Being apostate vs lyre was cool. I mean. They just wasted 2s of eq to fail to slow me down.

Ernam

Again I will re-iterate that I was just lyring to catch him on balance for Force.

Would also like to reiterate that serpent has at least 8 counters (that I feel like sharing) in addition to an entire skillset that completely ignores prismatic shield.

Can you actually lock some who chooses to spam lyre?  Yes, you can.  Has it been done?  Yes.  Is it easy?  No.  Should it be?  No.

The list of ways to punish someone sitting still permanently on balance using hypnosis is long and requires someone with creativity beyond that which is required for freeze ground, embed retardation, delph arrow.  Not going to entertain @Aegoth with replies to silly unbased, uneducated claims any further.

Aegoth

Well, it looks like Santar disagrees with you, Ernam. Pretty sure that Santar knows more about serpent than you. Pretty sure that any random cyrenian novice knows more about serpent than you, for that matter. It's all good though, you keep thinking you're a decent PvPer by killing AFK people. We'll be over here, in reality-land

Jhui

you can suggest action as many times as you want as long as it's not the same action, lyre = nothing vs serp

Dunn

Should definitely go through lyre. I can tzantza through lyre, but you can't bite through it? Weird. 

Santar

It's possible as a serpent to kill someone who uses lyre in an unintelligent manner, yes.

But I mean, there are a lot of classes that rather than just being okay versus lyre, actively annihilate anyone who attempts to lyre against them. Like:
Shaman
Jester
Apostate
Dragon
Monk

Paladin can probably go on that list too. All of the above classes destroy anyone who tries to lyre trivially.

And then the rest of the majority of classes can do pretty okay versus lyre.

BM probably has the toughest luck vs. lyre if burst damage is still pitiful. Runie not all that good vs. it either. But those are both prep classes at least.

Ernam

26) You told Aegoth: Duel?

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Kross

First time I sparred a decent serpent in the arena (see: Shecks) I lyred on him. He proceeded to threaten me by saying "Don't -ever- lyre against him in an arena spar again." 

No logs because it was lulzy to begin with. Just curious to see if he refutes saying it.

Ernam

I mean, slow prepping as monk with lyre is pretty lame.  Slow prepping gets me fired up.

Would also point out that I won that spar.


@Santar I would definitely add Paladin, as well as Occultist

Just for trivia's sake, it's actually possible to truelock someone as a serpent without them ever dropping prismatic, from unafflicted.  Batch curing can help (somewhat) but just illustrating my point.

Oh yeah, also forgot to mention:
Illusions  (illusion lyre dropping, illusion you leaving, illusion Santar walking in and starting Devour, illusion high prio serpent pet bites, and so on)
Pickpocket the lyre (have done it)

Aegoth

Ernam said:

26) You told Aegoth: Duel?

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https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/f192ea3d

Ernam

For the peanut gallery, that was heavily afflicted and damaged, with metawake down, during a skirmish, and unaware that I was about to be pulled into a ret trap.

This was the reason for my duel request, not the result of it.

Jacen

What can monk do against lyre? Didn't see any monk abilities on that list.