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Quick Combat Questions

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  • VirgoVirgo Member Posts: 62 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Bann said:
    Pondering picking up a 3rd class again. Was really leaning towards Magi, but now also considering Jester. Thoughts?
    It's complicated but fun. Really good survival. I'd say give it a whack if you're bad.
  • BannBann Member Posts: 333 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    ...I meant more about Magi vs Jester. I already have Serpent and BM.

  • VirgoVirgo Member Posts: 62 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Oh. 

    I'm not the person to respond. 

    I'm sorry. 

    Forgive me. @_@
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 1,883 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Magi all the way.  Seriously. Hit me you ic.  Ill convince you
  • AnkhareoutefAnkhareoutef Member Posts: 122 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Does monolith stop vodun/puppet travel?
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinMember Posts: 2,656 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Does monolith stop vodun/puppet travel?
    Nope

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

    image

    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • CaliraCalira Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 162 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Does monolith stop vodun/puppet travel?
    One with the user will, one with at the destination will not
  • AnkhareoutefAnkhareoutef Member Posts: 122 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Calira said:
    Does monolith stop vodun/puppet travel?
    One with the user will, one with at the destination will not
    That's what I thought.  I remember having to write mushrooms into my travel aliases.
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited April 16
    So I have been testing with @Proficy , which I thought it would work, it turns out it won't work.

    Here's the case:
    • Proficy has health that requires 8 morningstars hit to break (L3 morning stars, prolly need more with <L3)
    • Doublewhirl a broken limb twice with flails won't mangle it.
    • He'd apply to head on leg break.
    • He's tanky enough he won't die to mangles and can't mangle him long enough due to health
    These circumstances completely halt the kill of a Dual Blunt.

    (what I have tried: break left leg, he applies to head, I DWL left leg with flails in attempt to mangle it until he switch to apply legs, then I'd break head, assault and pulp, but not in time, as the left leg didn't mangle after 2 continuous flail DWLs (L3 flail). @Mindshell )

    Thoughts?
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Okay I got the idea about this now Thanks @Keorin @Calira @Proficy
  • BannBann Member Posts: 333 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 17
    So, got a couple of questions for you guys. Two mainly, from the standpoint of people who can't really get a lot of artefacts.

    First, what are some current Shaman tactics to win? I know there's a bleed route, but you can kinda prio haemo and not worry about that too much, right? So what do you do then? What if you want to push some Tzantza, how do you build those mental affs up to where you can reliably pop someone?

    Second, in regards to current Sylvan. I've been looking over this, and there basically seems to be two paths. Prop is the prep path, pushing the resto breaks to mask the heartseed for the kill. Are there any particular head/torso/arms/legs plant setups that are generally better than the rest? Also for weatherweaving, is there a general skill path to follow, or is it more slam them with affs until you get enough to Shockwave them to death?

  • TruaxTruax Member Posts: 21 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited April 17
    Bann said:
    So, got a couple of questions for you guys. Two mainly, from the standpoint of people who can't really get a lot of artefacts.

    First, what are some current Shaman tactics to win? I know there's a bleed route, but you can kinda prio haemo and not worry about that too much, right? So what do you do then? What if you want to push some Tzantza, how do you build those mental affs up to where you can reliably pop someone?

    Second, in regards to current Sylvan. I've been looking over this, and there basically seems to be two paths. Prop is the prep class, pushing the resto breaks to mask the heartseed for the kill. Are there any particular head/torso/arms/legs plant setups that are generally better than the rest? Also for weatherweaving, is there a general path to follow, or is it more slam them with affs until you get enough to Shockwave them to death?
    Super interested in a response to the first question! I can build the affs, but in the last .5s of the Tzantza, I'm paralysed consistently, which pretty much kills the strategy every time. :( 
  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 17
    You're not really going to build the affs on someone who's paying attention and just assumes mental affs on blight. You'll have to lock them almost always.

    Also if you prio haemo too much you're just gonna get locked/hindered to hell even more easily than they already do. That's the thing with Shaman: you can't really stop both. Even if you manage to not get locked/inflamed, if they're paying attention they'll get free stacks of fashions via soulrend and fuck you over that way instead.

    Sylvan just build to 70 arcane power and do the 4 kelp aff bursts into lock/shockwave or slickness/asthma+torso break->heartseed. Either way is highly viable; Sylvan's the one class you really don't wanna stay in the same room with for very long.

    @Truax soulrend. Learn to love it. You don't need to stick mana leech to get mass amounts of fashions. Easiest thing to do is to combo breach+soulrend; breach is something that isn't affected by swiftcurse, so you're not losing any speed. The way I did it was not go for haemo early and just let them keep clotting the bleed away + focus/cursewards was more than enough mana drain. As I said, you're not going to get tzantza requirement without locking them if they're paying any amount of attention.
  • TelinusTelinus Member Posts: 110 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @bann Sylvan propagation is interesting, though the only things that you really need to utilise is valerian on arms for a lock. Outside of that, thornrend is pretty slow and doesn't really stack anything, so during prep for you could utilise bloodroot or some variation of the non-mental afflictions on arms -for the body ones its completely up to you, probably sileris on legs for avoiding slipping on ice, then elm on head/body against runies/magi, Hawthorn on body versus bards and valerian body against blademasters/shaman .

    Heartseed is interesting, though I'm pretty sure (need to test more) that its avoidable with one very, very simple move or trigger.


    Bann
  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Telinus said:
    Heartseed is interesting, though I'm pretty sure (need to test more) that its avoidable with one very, very simple move or trigger.
    Heartseed's only worth pushing for versus inexperienced people. The same old strat works versus those types, where you just break legs->heartseed on 2nd resto apply->break torso. Alternatively you can blow their tree bal then break leg+staff sweep->eclipse->heartseed->break torso.

    Pretty easy to avoid though, much harder with kelp stack into slickness/heartseed/torso break, cause you're relying a lot on RNG at that point.
    Bann
  • TaryiusTaryius Member Posts: 103 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Bann

    So.. Shamans. You're kill strategies will mainly be inflame/lock/tzantza and vodun stuff.

    Inflame is pretty simple, especially since you can just put discern on the end of any alias now (Thank you classleads)
    Inflame deals 6.6x your targets bleeding in instant damage, increased by sensitivity. With Teraile attuned you will afflict 55 bleed on every curse, you're general strategy is to stick haemophilia then build up bleed and or stack sensitivity into an inflame. It's something you can pressure while going for the lock. You also want to use bloodlet to build a lot of bleeding, and it can be used for some serious burst bleed/damage with bloodlet --> jinx bleed/inflame.

    Locks are pretty simple, stick the required afflictions minus slickness and anorexia and then you deliver those two simultaneously with either a doll or with Aspar binding. 'curse anorexia invoke soulscourge imbibe gecko' or 'curse anorexia invoke coagulation slickness'. The first requires a decently fashioned doll, the second require they be bleeding for a certain amount (In essence you have to stick haemophilia)

    Tzantza stuff isn't really viable against anyone who notices, you can use a doll to hide a lot of afflictions (Confusion, Dizzy, Recklessness). At six mentals it's instant, but anyone who lets you get there in a 1v1 deserves to die.

    Vodun stuff is pretty gimicky and only works against those who don't know what's going on.

    You can spam Vodun bleed over and over, with 50-60 fashions you'll kill anyone unartied with the sheer mass of bleeding.

    You can also do restore stuff, it's pretty nasty. Essentially you use confusion out of room, to hide it on the foe and to extend their eq recovery times. Then you 'Vodun Command apply restoration to head' - 'Vodun Cripple'(Breaks all 4 limbs) and then 'Vodun command restore'. Some people will already restore at that point so you don't have to command. And then just start the Tzantza with confusion on them, and you'll kill them before they recover from the 14s eq loss.

    You also have slowlocks.

    So, against the unaware you can blight asthma, vodun slow, vodun slow. They'll waste one aeon balance attempting to smoke, then the second aeon balance they will cure asthma. As long as they attempt to smoke with asthma you'll get balance before they can cure aeon and them swiftcurse asthma/swiftcurse anorexia/etc into a lock or Tzantza.

    Against better, but still unaware foes you can use concussion out of room. Go in, Vodun slow, Vodun slow and you'll get balance back before they cure aeon  and you curse asthma/etc into a lock or Tzantza.

    You can also do salvelock stuff but I don't know any of that.

    PS. Also I don't think paralysis stops Tzantza. I don't anything that stops the channel once it's started aside from another command. Pretty busted. (Might've changed with the Tzantza changes though *shrugs*)
    TruaxBann
  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Anyone who doesn't diagnose+curseward when the Shaman's out of the room, deserves the death that's coming to them. In room, they'll see you doing the doll affs.

    Don't even need to be out of the room to kill them with vodun. Just have to rely on them to not notice the force apply, and curseward the second you do it. Which is the vast majority of people.

    With blight just assume asthma+mental aff and you're good to go. Serverside will attempt to eat kelp+focus: it'll either hit impatience (by not being able to focus) or it'll hit asthma (or any other kelp aff). Alternatively to impatience, it'll cure the blighted mental aff. Sure you'll end up wasting a herb balance either way, but blight balance is slow enough that it won't cost you.
    Bann
  • BannBann Member Posts: 333 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Hey thanks for all the awesome responses so far guys. Really helps a lot. Does anyone have any input RE: Weatherweaving for Sylvan?

  • KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,097 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bann said:
    Hey thanks for all the awesome responses so far guys. Really helps a lot. Does anyone have any input RE: Weatherweaving for Sylvan?
    Run.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
    Dochitha
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I think time it and shield at the right time. Also, if you are alchie can educe tin to reflect the damage. Running is a good idea. I think flying works too, it won't hit you in the air (not sure if this is changed).
  • BannBann Member Posts: 333 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    lol not for surviving it, bros. For using it :D

  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Bann said:
    lol not for surviving it, bros. For using it :D
    LOL indicates the notion of it being OP heh.
  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 881 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Educing tin versus a Sylvan is not really feasible, either. It reflects two attacks, and it's only half the damage. Alchemist can't capitalise on the damage done, and the Sylvan can just hold their arcane power and keep using non-empowered combos until it wears off.

    Worst part about Weatherweaving is you're not gonna kill someone who moves out of your room. The second they do, all your arcane power is gone if you try and chase. So unless they tumble out after you shockwave (and you can move and follow with stormhammer or something) it's GG. Gotta use thornrend breaks to kill competent people.

    PS. Propagation is not 'useless' or anywhere close to. Anyone who tries to tell you that clearly has never fought as a Sylvan. Thornrend is not slow, even less so when you have a diadem. It also has access to afflictions that don't require AP usage, or require the 'sicken effect' to be applied.

    (when I say sicken effect, I mean acts similarly to Apostate sicken, wherein it needs certain affs present to give other affs. Akin to how depthswalker instills works)
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 699 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Some of the information given on Shaman in this thread seriously amuses me. Shaman doesn't care about curseward on force apply for instance. Maybe curseward on strip speed, but that's about it.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Amranu said:
    Shaman doesn't care about curseward
    FTFY

    Might as well not even use it 99% of the time.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,094 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Why is that, @Atalkez and @Amranu ?
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 18
    They can swiftcurse Breach/relapse > swift/relapse hits I believe. Even if they can't pair the relapse, the relapse on the first non-breach curse makes up for anything they lose on breach. Really doesn't do anything for you at all, except in instances where they leave room so you put it up to be able to attack them before they can you.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 699 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    You can't swiftcurse relapse lol
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 3,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 18
    You're right my fault. So swift breach > curse/relapse > swift > swift > jinx or whatever it works out as. Curseward doesn't help vs the aff rate when you would want it to the most. Maybe if it was still usable prone, but nope.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 982 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 18
    Relapse has a pretty hefty CD iirc. But if they can invoke whatever isn't on CD, of bloodlet/relapse, that probably shouldn't even be possible since I think breach is swiftcurse speed and strip plus aff at 1 second speed is not standard. (Maybe it's not, based on Amranu's above post)

    The maybe even bigger problem with curseward is that shaman can lock or kill you in probably less than ten seconds and curseward just throws you off eq for 4 of them, which also removes the need to prestick active cure counters if you breach then finish the lock before they have eq. I'm afraid of being dead before I regain eq if I ward.
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