Theft Updates

Namino

Namino's reaction, in pictures.

Achaea lost a great player 

Elyon

Mili

Just need to get my digs in before the thread is ultimately closed.

I don't think anyone is really happy with the changes and not sure it's going to get more constructive than pages 1 and 2. Death needs to cost 10x more for thieves so that it's not a huge payday every time they get 'lucky'

plz admin

Thaisen

I mean...if this is the actual end result...then I say the changes are A++.

Tahquil

So.

Steal code. Get offended about potential consequences to stealiing code.

Hmm.

Hmmmmmmmm.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

Hikagejuunin

Never stole his code for the record. But if the admins are cool with wiping someone's profile cause they didn't pay then I wonder what other malicious fun can be gotten into? It's not like mudlet runs in a sandbox. Nice ssh keys you got there, be a shame if...

Treyal

hi if mudlet has access to your private keys then you have much bigger cybersecurity problems, but like, way to string a sentence together there!

Tahquil

That's a transaction (or lack of) between players. Like if I asked for an art commission, got the art and never paid. You can trash my name on the forums but the admin aren't involved at all.

@Saonji can have my key things. Help me sort out my porn folders pls.

Saonji

"Avoiding theft is simple, just create a few triggers and you're set."

Saonji creates a few triggers to protect their system from thieves.

Thieves:

Hikagejuunin

Deleting someone's entire profile, including unrelated code that isn't yours is not even comparable.

Accipiter

Like, Elyon was even in a shouting match where people were talking about him stealing from mindless newbies. He is the least quitted he has ever been.

Saonji

@Hikagejuunin Thankfully for you, you can opt out of using something you didn't pay for, and avoid the consequence of it entirely. ☺️

PS: Everyone who does buy it (or even expresses a desire to do so) knows and accepts this, before I even send it to them. So maybe get your head out of your ass.

Atalkez

If it only deletes the currently loaded profile, it’s just deleting itself so you can’t use it. Load the most recent, pre install, profile and it’s fine. Seems reasonable to me. Svo didn’t work for years if you hadn’t paid for it.

Hikagejuunin

At least I'm not the only one who thinks as much.

Saonji

Oh no, my feelings.

Kogan

Imagine trying to intentionally derail a thread by targeting others about something non-related so it will get locked just because people are talking about a toxic system in the game you're afraid to lose.

Sobriquet

In 24yrs of Achaea we have 100's of very notable Combatants, a plethora of well revered City leaders and those in political power, a number of outstanding RP'ers that make you really step up and take notice and bring the world to life. We've had bards, Jesters and performers, tailors and designers. In all that time we've had one decently played thief, Tenebrus.

In a world where we see Mhaldor skinning Mhun children to make handbags, Ashtan courting Chaos Lords, worlds being destroyed, Aliens invading and destroying entire towns, Tsol'eth killing 1000's in Cyrene and killing purely for knowledge and advancement. Abilities used on a daily basis that cleave people in half, turn their bodies to gold, literally explode them with fire until nothing but ash remains.. yet the the one area we as a playerbase dislike the most and the one area we as a collective want to punish, is theft.

"Oh look, Aegoth as blown someone up again, that's neat"

"Oh, Elyon stole from a citymate, let's team him 12 strong until he gives up"

There is nothing "dangerous" about it compared to anything else in this world, but the impact is significant as it only breeds anger, resentment and frustration. The game as a whole would not suffer one iota if thieves didn't exist, in fact, I think the overall experience for players as a whole would be a net benefit.

Amranu

"If it only deletes the currently loaded profile, it’s just deleting itself so you can’t use it. Load the most recent, pre install, profile and it’s fine. Seems reasonable to me. Svo didn’t work for years if you hadn’t paid for it."

There's a difference between distributing code that doesn't work without permission and distributing code that actively sabotages both itself and other parts of someone's profile.

One is perfectly legal and generally accepted as a method to prevent piracy. The other one is borderline hacking.

Namino

I'm reminded of Game Dev Tycoon, where the devs intentionally released a cracked version of their game which was altered so that the games developed by the player were slowly increasingly pirated themselves in turn until they got a bankruptcy game over inevitably, causing the pirating player to lose hours of progress and effort.

I wonder if that's 'borderline hacking'.

(It isn't. Quit stealing shit. Sounds like you'd complain about a razor blade after grabbing someone's weave. Behave yourself and you won't catch hands.)

Also, pulling the "everyone else at camp also thinks you're gross" card has to be one of the smallest pp moves I've seen on this forum, ever, barr none.

Anyway, theft, amiright?

Saonji

There's a difference between distributing code that doesn't work without permission and distributing code that actively sabotages both itself and other parts of someone's profile.

There's a difference between using something you didn't pay for, and using something that you did pay for (or was free).

One is perfectly accepted, the other is theft.

It's pretty sad that the people justifying the theft of hundreds of RL dollars, are the same ones trying to justify protection of intellectual property as "hacking".

Get over yourselves. If you don't like it, pay for it like everyone else did, rather than trying to steal my shit.

PS for the outrage brigade: This hasn't actually happened yet, because I (shocking, I know) trust the people I do sell it to.

Kog

If logging in is opting in, hitting the install button seems like saying please?

Hikagejuunin

PS for the outrage brigade: This hasn't actually happened yet, because I (shocking, I know) trust the people I do sell it to.

Nothing says trust like bundling your scripts with malicious code

Saonji

Nothing says trust like bundling your scripts with malicious code

Strange how everyone who has bought my system, has agreed to me doing what I've done.

Feel free to continue derailing the thread, though.

Austere

Am I a bad person for wanting a copy just so I can see this "malicious" code?

Cooper

If the malicious code only deletes the system that's fine and similar things have been done for longer than I can remember.

If it deletes stuff outside of his script that is not good and is a cause for concern. The good news is that if that concerns you, you can easily choose not to install or use it.

Saonji

Okay I'll dispel some misconceptions, since completely unfounded rumours seem to have cropped up. @Zulah can verify if he wants to.

The agreement (that is to say, the rules I give to everyone before even accepting payment) people read, includes a snippet about this (in fact, it's the main rule with the longest section about it). It says, quite clearly, your current profile will be wiped clean. Perhaps there is some misunderstanding on the wording, but what Atalkez said is essentially what happens, and is the very reason the first step of installation is make a new profile. Hardly my problem if they either don't read the instructions, or never had them (due to it being given away/stolen), and install it on their normal profile then decide to do shitty things.

None of my code is malicious, or shady. I'd encrypt it if it was. Since I don't, anyone who downloads it can plainly see all the code in any text editor. Again, Zulah can tell you all of this.

There's many people in this game who don't like me, that's true. It's a fact I have virtually never cared about, can't appease everyone, after all. I do care when people try to spread lies about me, though, especially ones like this. Considering how much code I've given away completely free over the years, and how many I've helped learn, it's kind of grating.

Kind of ironic I have to defend my actions against thieves, in a thread about thieves, but here we are.

Eryl

I think selling any sort of system is kind of taking advantage of people who continue to think learning to use what’s publicly available is out of their reach. However, I am also that’s kind of how capitalism works and can’t really fault someone for selling something they’ve worked really hard on. Don’t wanna walk? Hail a taxi and pay a premium.

But the point is it’s a service you have to pay for. @Saonji can be kind of extra sometimes (we all can, let’s be real here), but I don’t think any modern Achaean doesn’t use or at least know of some of the code and snippets they’ve put out there.

Shit, Saonji has scripted things people were offering credits to script for free AND made the script public.

Ya’ll coming here trying to deflect is hilarious though, especially the ones like Naruto who think they’re the hottest shit since sliced bread.

Gallida

Confirming that the "Don't give this away or distribute this" clause is impossible to miss, both between swearing on your favorite relative before you buy and the warning in the installation guide.

The "anti-theft" portion is entirely plaintext and clear enough to indicate exactly what it does if you don't have a licensed copy, even if you're terrible at coding.

This raises the question of "why exactly does Mudlet allow scripting to delete files on your computer in the first place", but that's a whole other can of worms.

Profit

You can't tell me that Profit deserved a windfall of 12 million gold

Profit deserved a windfall of 12 million gold.

Archaeon

lmfao  

Gurklukke

Gottem