New Class: Pariah

Dochitha

Reiv said:

There really needs to be a way to 'release' reserved insects without collecting a full swarm, building it, and sacrificing it. Trying to find and see what all the bugs do has been painful with 10 balance-consuming gathers and the whole build-and-sacrifice sequence.

How I handle it, I have 5 swarms to sting (1000 each), and 5 swarms to burrow. I name they spyramides for sting, and bpyramides for burrow, like this for every aff. You only need to do this once, and after that it's pretty much maintenance free, unless you use sacrifice in groups... in fact I have only been using pyramides to burrow so I think it can be simplier...

Eryl

Let’s speculate on arties!

- Something that adds rooms to your crypt
- Something that speeds up traveling to your crypt
- Something that increase the amount of bugs you can enthral
- a knife that doesn’t decay
- I know others mentioned they don’t think it will happen, but I can see a damage Artie (probably in the form of a knife that doesn’t decay)
- Something that makes eternity hit in LoS instead of just adjacent
- Something that makes wave move move than one room

What do ya’ll anticipate as possibilities?


edit: ohohoh increase jar inventory!

Shirszae

So after dealing a bit with Pestilence I have to say I agree with whoever said swarm mechanics seem a bit overcomplicated. Like, why do we enthrall so few at a time when we need 1000 to do anything? 

Is there any possibility that each attempt to enthrall tries to either capture 1k or the difference between 1k and however many of that type of insect you already have? Balance could just be scaled if the idea is that it takes time. Another idea is to make it apparent whether they are biting or flying or burrowing when you initially detect and not only after they are enthralled. 

As for artefacts, I would definitely like a nondecay knife that could be customised, but unsure what power it should have. Maybe something that gives a few extra seconds to your ability to continue your epitaph? Though I feel like that could stand to be upped ever so slightly at baseline right now too.

Finally, is there any chance thr knife could be made sheath able? Right now if you try you get told its not a weapon. 

Ainly

Eryl said:

Let’s speculate on arties!

What do ya’ll anticipate as possibilities?

 Extended dust form. 

Ainly

Shirszae said:

Finally, is there any chance thr knife could be made sheath able? Right now if you try you get told its not a weapon. 

Beltloop works though I know it's not the same. 

Eryl

Ainly said:

Eryl said:

Let’s speculate on arties!

What do ya’ll anticipate as possibilities?

 Extended dust form. 

Oh, that would be an awesome thing!  Great idea.

Shecks

Eryl said:

Let’s speculate on arties!

- Something that adds rooms to your crypt
- Something that speeds up traveling to your crypt
- Something that increase the amount of bugs you can enthral
- a knife that doesn’t decay
- I know others mentioned they don’t think it will happen, but I can see a damage Artie (probably in the form of a knife that doesn’t decay)
- Something that makes eternity hit in LoS instead of just adjacent
- Something that makes wave move move than one room

What do ya’ll anticipate as possibilities?


edit: ohohoh increase jar inventory!

Swarm size is practically guaranteed - adds a lot of utility without adding to 1v1 dueling power almost at all.  I think we can expect to see this (although according to the Int scaling theory, there already is technically an artie that does this - being Sash).

An alternative to this would be something that lets you catch more insects, or lets you catch them from any location, or gives you access to a special insect (like robberflies) more often.

My ideas / guesses:
• Something that lets you move your crypt every so often for free
• Buffs to crypt defences, such as more golems or something that makes Carvings matter, etc
• +15%/30% duration of Expose  (I think it needs to be a little longer unartied but this is classic artie design)

What I'd love but know won't happen:

An artie that lets me use the Skillset and 20+ artefacts I've already spent huge amounts of time and/or real-life money on that were and still are marketed as working on all classes (referring to Weapons/ Weaponry).  Balance aside, I'm sorry, but I'm a little bitter about this.



There are reasons why Weaponry was banned, but I really wish it could have been done in a way that isn't a gutpunch to people who spent money on skills that they won't be able to use anymore - particularly for people who don't multiclass and literally just lose access to Weaponry & their weapons until they give up Pariah. 

Pretty sure we'll see bows given back soon, but I really do think we can solve the problem(s) without banning WoT, halberds, warhammers, javelins, atlatls, and so on.

Vinzent

I'm rather indifferent to Weaponry being locked.

Ainly

Issue with the latency ab file. It reads that it prevents immunity elixir for 13 seconds but it only prevents it for 10 seconds. I've gotten the voyria kill to work based on 10 seconds, just wondering if the ab is wrong or latency timer is off.

Shecks

Ainly said:

Issue with the latency ab file. It reads that it prevents immunity elixir for 13 seconds but it only prevents it for 10 seconds. I've gotten the voyria kill to work based on 10 seconds, just wondering if the ab is wrong or latency timer is off.

It's also wrong in a few good ways too - for instance Amranu says it doesn't just prevent immunity elixir, it completely prevents curing voyria in any way at all (including passive heal effect, tree tattoo, etc).


Re:  Artefacts

• pretty sure we'll see an expanded Jar as well
• 3 Crush traps instead of 1
• Increased chance for Plunder to succeed (i.e. faster plundering)

Shirszae

I'd rather we got a custom los attack over bows 

Amranu

It prevents passives from curing it over everything else, but they still can apparently, after further testing. I'm guessing it makes passives act like tree with regard to voyria.

Shecks said:

It's also wrong in a few good ways too - for instance Amranu says it doesn't just prevent immunity elixir, it completely prevents curing voyria in any way at all (including passive heal effect, tree tattoo, etc).

Shecks

Shirszae said:

I'd rather we got a custom los attack over bows 

Flavor-wise and also balance-wise - that's awesome, but I don't think this is mutually exclusive.  Plenty of classes got LoS attacks without banning bows on them.

My thing is that I bought a Bow.  Then I bought an artie quiver.  Then I bought a box of stasis for my meteor arrows.  Then I bought an add-on for it, that specifically (including at this very moment) specifically says that it will allow me to SHOOT on classes that don't have access to bows.  It just doesn't sit well with me that I bought that at face value, then after-the-fact they made it not true anymore.  The fact that bows don't break the class in any way is just kinda salt on the wound.

The reason for this whole thing is unclear, but I've been told by reliable sources that they basically banned the entire Weaponry skill and all weapons specifically because of Handaxe (and presumably Thoths jabs which are just as fast).

If that's the case, then why not just make all weapon attacks take 3 seconds, or give Pariah a massive negative multiplier on to-hit (just like some classes have massive positive bonuses, e.g. Sentinel with handaxes).  I'm sure there are many solutions, but this one just feels bad. 

Taryius

I think it is a very minor issue, if one at all. I will absolutely take a minor loss in weaponry for the lore implications of Pariah, and to keep them as arcane Magi instead of weapon wielders.

I like @Farrah 's idea of the EPITAPH modifier on swarm attacks to only used them if empowered. Would solve some of the stupidity issues, and ease coding burden.

Give a swarm attack that is LoS and deals some damage. And add prone somewhere. 

Enthralling 100 insects at a time is not a big deal to me, but I do agree it would probably be easier to only let you make swarms 1000 strong. Allowing you to go below or above that seems like a relic of a previous iteration of the skill, and just adds confusion right now.

Dochitha

I do hope artefact knife would increase hunting efficiency to bring it inline with some best hunting classes like serpent. I am comparing Pariah with 19 dex Serpent since they both have similar speed, with Pariah feeling bit quicker, but Pariah is outputting 15% less damage compared to Serpent, and also so much less tanky than Serpent.

Just sharing a weird thing, Pariah's hunting speed feels terrible with Sidhes so much more than hunting other stuffs. On Sidhes, each trace does like 1%+ damage only, I remember Serpent does 2-3%. Not sure if it's Sidhe's resistance against magic damage?

Ainly

Dochitha said:

I do hope artefact knife would increase hunting efficiency to bring it inline with some best hunting classes like serpent. I am comparing Pariah with 19 dex Serpent since they both have similar speed, with Pariah feeling bit quicker, but Pariah is outputting 15% less damage compared to Serpent, and also so much less tanky than Serpent.

Do you think 19 dex serpent is a standard to base things around? 

Kog

You feel something suddenly clamp down about your throat, almost entirely cutting off your air.
You have been afflicted with asthma.
A sudden pain lances through your chest, and a cold numbness spreads outwards from your heart.
You have been afflicted with paralysis.
[AFF] PARALYSIS | A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled PAR ast]  04:16:39.01
You may eat another plant or mineral.
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled PAR ast] 04:16:39.37
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled PAR ast] 04:16:39.40

[Curing]: EAT MAGNESIUM
You eat a magnesium chip.
[CURED] PARALYSIS | Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed.
You have cured the paralysis affliction.
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.44
Dochitha raises his right hand, and snaps his fingers.
A wave of nausea overcomes you as myriad bodies shift beneath your skin, roused from action and
seeking escape. Flesh distends and tears as they rip themselves free, a black tide rolling away from
you as your blood showers the ground.
You have been afflicted with pyramides.
Your heart skips a beat, then begins to pound.
Dochitha traces a logograph depicting a lunging bear in the air before you, the blood upon his knife
bursting into arcane flame as it hangs in the wake of the blade's passage.
Even as the logograph becomes fully formed it leaps from the air to you, ephemeral claws plunging
into your chest and leaving lines of icy fire in their wake.
You have been afflicted with haemophilia.
[AFF] HAEMOPHILIA | You sense a subtle change deep within.
Your heart gives a shuddering stutter in your chest, a wave of nausea and weakness flooding through
you.
[4949(80%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]  (-496h, 8.1%)  [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.48
[4949(80%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.49

[Curing]: SIP HEALTH
You take a drink from a glazed runic vial.
The elixir heals and soothes you.
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]  (+1206h, 19.6%)  [haem pyramides ensorcelled
 ast]  04:16:39.81
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast]  04:16:39.83
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.89

You may channel the fury of battle once again.
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.99
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast]  04:16:40.16
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast]  04:16:40.32

[AFF] BLEEDING | You bleed 205 health.
+------------------------------------------------+
|            Pariah swap, WATCH LOCK             |
+------------------------------------------------+
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]  (-205h, 3.3%)  [haem bld(205) pyramides
 ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.38
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.49
Now prioritising the haemophilia affliction.
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.59
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.76
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.87
Dochitha traces a logograph depicting a striking scorpion in the air before you, the blood upon his
knife bursting into arcane flame as it hangs in the wake of the blade's passage.
The logograph leaps from the air to you, and you feel a terrible pain in the side of your neck
before an icy cold rushes through you.
You have been afflicted with scytherus.
[AFF] SCYTHERUS | You feel light headed and dizzy.
Dochitha raises his right hand, and decisively snaps his fingers.
Darkness swallows you in a writhing tide of chittering buzzing bodies. The insects swarm over your
face, stinging at your eyes, scuttling into your mouth. You struggle to breathe but only draw in
more of the myriad enemy and you asphyxiate on the corpses of your killers.
[Curing]: No longer prioritising the haemophilia affliction.
You have been slain by Dochitha.
**********************************************************
You have been defeated and are thrown out of the Arena.
**********************************************************
Cyrenian spectator stands. (indoors)
[5815(100%)|5275(100%)|100|100|65.7] [M  XE]  (-135h, 2.3%)  [SCY]  04:16:41.05

two attacks in a single herb balance is a wild ride.

Shecks

Kog said:

You feel something suddenly clamp down about your throat, almost entirely cutting off your air.
You have been afflicted with asthma.
A sudden pain lances through your chest, and a cold numbness spreads outwards from your heart.
You have been afflicted with paralysis.
[AFF] PARALYSIS | A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled PAR ast]  04:16:39.01
You may eat another plant or mineral.
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled PAR ast] 04:16:39.37
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled PAR ast] 04:16:39.40

[Curing]: EAT MAGNESIUM
You eat a magnesium chip.
[CURED] PARALYSIS | Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed.
You have cured the paralysis affliction.
[5445(88%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.44
Dochitha raises his right hand, and snaps his fingers.
A wave of nausea overcomes you as myriad bodies shift beneath your skin, roused from action and
seeking escape. Flesh distends and tears as they rip themselves free, a black tide rolling away from
you as your blood showers the ground.
You have been afflicted with pyramides.
Your heart skips a beat, then begins to pound.
Dochitha traces a logograph depicting a lunging bear in the air before you, the blood upon his knife
bursting into arcane flame as it hangs in the wake of the blade's passage.
Even as the logograph becomes fully formed it leaps from the air to you, ephemeral claws plunging
into your chest and leaving lines of icy fire in their wake.
You have been afflicted with haemophilia.
[AFF] HAEMOPHILIA | You sense a subtle change deep within.
Your heart gives a shuddering stutter in your chest, a wave of nausea and weakness flooding through
you.
[4949(80%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]  (-496h, 8.1%)  [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.48
[4949(80%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.49

[Curing]: SIP HEALTH
You take a drink from a glazed runic vial.
The elixir heals and soothes you.
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]  (+1206h, 19.6%)  [haem pyramides ensorcelled
 ast]  04:16:39.81
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast]  04:16:39.83
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.89

You may channel the fury of battle once again.
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:39.99
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast]  04:16:40.16
[6155(100%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem pyramides ensorcelled ast]  04:16:40.32

[AFF] BLEEDING | You bleed 205 health.
+------------------------------------------------+
|            Pariah swap, WATCH LOCK             |
+------------------------------------------------+
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]  (-205h, 3.3%)  [haem bld(205) pyramides
 ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.38
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.49
Now prioritising the haemophilia affliction.
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.59
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.76
[5950(96%)|5275(100%)|95|100|65.7] [B D C K M  E]   [haem bld(205) pyramides ensorcelled ast] 04:16:40.87
Dochitha traces a logograph depicting a striking scorpion in the air before you, the blood upon his
knife bursting into arcane flame as it hangs in the wake of the blade's passage.
The logograph leaps from the air to you, and you feel a terrible pain in the side of your neck
before an icy cold rushes through you.
You have been afflicted with scytherus.
[AFF] SCYTHERUS | You feel light headed and dizzy.
Dochitha raises his right hand, and decisively snaps his fingers.
Darkness swallows you in a writhing tide of chittering buzzing bodies. The insects swarm over your
face, stinging at your eyes, scuttling into your mouth. You struggle to breathe but only draw in
more of the myriad enemy and you asphyxiate on the corpses of your killers.
[Curing]: No longer prioritising the haemophilia affliction.
You have been slain by Dochitha.
**********************************************************
You have been defeated and are thrown out of the Arena.
**********************************************************
Cyrenian spectator stands. (indoors)
[5815(100%)|5275(100%)|100|100|65.7] [M  XE]  (-135h, 2.3%)  [SCY]  04:16:41.05

two attacks in a single herb balance is a wild ride.

(edit) yeah that's pretty nasty.  I'd chalk that up as a pretty rare thing though.  max speed of Trace combo is 1.5s.

Gurklukke

Shirszae said:

I'd rather we got a custom los attack over bows 

Honestly, I would not mind having a LoS be something blood related, if we have their blood on our knife (Or used from a jar(kinda like mindprint)

We could TRACE ARROW <Target> - Laden with the scorn of the accursed, a bloody, sanguine arrow leaves a fresh wound on your body.


As for artefact ideas:

We could do it like Psion did and do some base damage increase artefacts that are class specific for Memorium
More BUGS, obviously (Though maybe not needed ...honestly)
Longevity of sand - Accursed Eternity
Larger Crypts
Ability to store more jars
Maybe an expensive one to preserve a tablet? - If I ever find one

Shirszae

Gurklukke said:

Shirszae said:

I'd rather we got a custom los attack over bows 

Honestly, I would not mind having a LoS be something blood related, if we have their blood on our knife (Or used from a jar(kinda like mindprint)

We could TRACE ARROW <Target> - Laden with the scorn of the accursed, a bloody, sanguine arrow leaves a fresh wound on your body.


As for artefact ideas:

We could do it like Psion did and do some base damage increase artefacts that are class specific for Memorium
More BUGS, obviously (Though maybe not needed ...honestly)
Longevity of sand - Accursed Eternity
Larger Crypts
Ability to store more jars
Maybe an expensive one to preserve a tablet? - If I ever find one

I like the idea of trace arrow or something equally thematic. Maybe trace sun could serve as both los and in room? It would certainly fit. Could just make it not give  an aff on los or give a random one or something.

No a fan of needing their blood for los though since that would be a pretty harsh limiter. 

Gurklukke

I will be scolded by @Dochitha if I do not suggest a bug themed LoS - Send an angry swarm towards them to sting the living daylights out of them

Maybe couple it with SWARM ECLIPSE -> SWARM SATURATE <target>

From their vantage in the skies, your swarm detects <Enemy> and buzzes in a discordant cacophony before diving fiercely per their master's command

The skies darken as a myriad of insects converge upon you, stinging you painfully.

Atalkez

@Kog were you off balance? You didn’t attack when you cured paralysis, and don’t shield either. Either one of those would have probably given you the time you needed to cure haemophilia to clot. 

Edit: @Makarios can you make sure the speed cap on logo is 1.6s? It should never be faster than herb balance like that. This only happens because it can reach 1.5s and a bad hop of server side simulated latency means you don’t even get an eat. No other addiction class gets that.

Shecks

Atalkez said:

@Kog were you off balance? You didn’t attack when you cured paralysis, and don’t shield either. Either one of those would have probably given you the time you needed to cure haemophilia to clot. 

Edit: @Makarios can you make sure the speed cap on logo is 1.6s? It should never be faster than herb balance like that. This only happens because it can reach 1.5s and a bad hop of server side simulated latency means you don’t even get an eat. No other addiction class gets that.

It's definitely 1.5s speed (checked using serverside).  Maybe 1.49 but could just be variance.  Strongly suggest making it 1.6 (which isn't really a cap since it doesn't scale with anything).

Kog

Atalkez said:

@Kog were you off balance? You didn’t attack when you cured paralysis, and don’t shield either. Either one of those would have probably given you the time you needed to cure haemophilia to clot. 

Edit: @Makarios can you make sure the speed cap on logo is 1.6s? It should never be faster than herb balance like that. This only happens because it can reach 1.5s and a bad hop of server side simulated latency means you don’t even get an eat. No other addiction class gets that.

I didn't have anything of the pre reqs when I cured paralysis, including haemo, and I was off balance yes.

Makarios

I can't say for sure since the start of the log isn't specific, but that looks like relapsed afflictions via heartbeat to me rather than two actual attacks.

That said, I do think the extract bleeding will need to come down a little - it was intended as a burst amount but not to be sufficient for the insta from 0 (it was meant to take two balances to achieve the bleeding rather than the one displayed here). That said, some bleeding may have already been in play, so I will need to look.

Vinzent

Is Extract invisible? Otherwise it just looks like that bleed came out of thin air.

Kog

He traces two logographs in the log, the combo is extract/pyramides and haemophilia trace, then the next attack is just trace scytherus/kill.

I guess a more aggressive clot profile might help a little (clot at 1 instead of 50?) assuming no other source of bleeding is present?

Makarios

I'm refering to that paralysis/asthma - this in practice is what kills you here (eat bloodroot stops curing off the haemophilia etc). But yeah, the counterplay there is a bit too limited for my taste given rate of attack so I'll likely make adjustments either today or tomorrow depending on how long they take to get in a state I am happy with.

Dochitha

Agree that changes could be made. I would hate the same to happen to me. Yes, heartbeat of asthma and paralysis into the bear trace. Yes extract pyramides and bear combo goes from 0 to 205 bleed, enabling instant kill on next balance. Rate of attack is pretty quick at Epitaph 4 there, reliable defense is shield, but extremely hard to react with this timing and even if defended, it just loops back again after 3 balances.

Amranu

is Pyramides taking effect before the bleeding? Because that would probably do it.