Mhaldor vs Targossas

Ifreann

May the best Mhaldor wins.

Edit: Yeah. I bet on Mhaldor.

Issam

One critique I have so far is that I don't feel that the existing infamy system neatly fits into the war system. The fact that there's constant aggression between cities is opening up the participants to being attacked by people solely looking for  opportunistic kills who otherwise have no stake in the conflict. My suggestion would be to have a separate sort of infamy for soldiers involved in war that makes them open targets only to the opposing city and their city allies. If someone wants to go for cheap breathrain/radiation kills, they should have some skin in the game besides sitting in their city waiting for deathsight to light up from the people in the orgs involved.

Rackham

I love hearing stats on the war. Unsure how I feel about it's effects on the current book running. Usually the payouts for wagers are effected by visible or imagined stats. And those stats change frequently with new information, such as that presented by the war reports. Love the flavor, love knowing how my bets are doing, but unsure if the stats should be changing the odds, or if it's better to leave the odds and hide the stats. That's a debate for people who run numbers better than I do.

I also love hearing about what's 'fair' all of the sudden. Gosh I'm getting tickled in the best of ways over the comeuppance. War isn't self contained. All them 15-6 raids I've defended on give me more than enough reason to stick my nose in things. And NOW I've got gold on the matter too.

More tears please.

Cobault

Imagine:
Going out of your way to piss off the ENTIRE world, every single other City in the game being your variety battlegrounds of 'I'm bored. Imma destroy your shit'
Then, initiating a serious conflict with another City and then COMPLAINING because the rest of the world is biting and nipping at you like pilot fish following a shark. Mhaldorians could suffer from the Infamy system just the same, the difference is, somehow, the City of Evil doesn't have the rest of Sapience fuming at them and ready to get a little revenge. Like, no one is even trying to HELP Mhaldor in this matter - they just wanna fuck y'all up while you're preoccupied from what I've seen.

Reap what you sow. IC, every other City wants to see you guys lose.

Edit: To stay on topic though, the Infamy system is fine. Both sides are gaining Infamy at basically the same rate, there's just an unadjustable variable at play making Targossas feel like they're getting hit worse over it.

Archaeon

what a garbage attitude to have

Rackham

Lol

   

Archaeon

You can lol all you want. Last time I tried to reach out to you to try and make it fun for everyone you were a complete ass so I don't think you're interested in fair fights whatsoever, you'd rather just complain

Issam

Yeah, Targossas is the main antagonist in the game right now, it's not unexpected that everyone wants a chance to join in on the dogpile. I'm commenting on the system itself because presumably it's going to be someone besides Targossas declaring war in the future. The forum RP isn't really useful here.

Saonji

Now you know what it's like when your response to people complaining is just 'lol'

lol

Archaeon

Lol   

Rackham

Yeah, in retrospect I did kinda snap at that. I don't appreciate the OOC shots you guys take. 'Do you guys have defenders' after you bring 12 people into Ashtan feels disingenuous. Further, after I answered (albeit pretty snippy, yeah, I wasn't in a great mood) you guys started bashing guards!

So yeah, if I had any indication that you guys were interested in fair fights, maybe I'd feel different about things. I don't mean to complain, because I guess Ashtan has historically done the same shit to Shallam. That's the way the game works. One side gets strong, and does whatever they want until they aren't strong anymore. It's just how things are. But that's totally why I'm getting so much satisfaction from this.

Sothantos

And in a surprising twist, the first instance of toxic hostility in this thread comes from Ashtan instead of either Targ or Mhaldor.

Can we get OOC forums war bets too?

Archaeon

Ok lol guess it's not ashtan that's collecting tears in this situation

Iaxus

Although I love the drama as much as the next guy, keep this thread somewhat on track so the next war can be better. Rants section is open.

Reyson

A separate infamy system would be good.

I have no idea how kills are weighted, but some kind of sliding scale like combat rankings (but not visible on honours or anything) would be cool. If someone is doing super great and murdering the other team but not getting killed back, they must be either very good or very lucky, so bringing them down being worth more than hitting the same old first target over and over would be a cool mechanic, though I'm sure it's code-heavy on the back end. 

I'd like it if crusades against patron Gods could be declared cheaper during wartime, so that we can open up Nish as a battlefield. That can make for big, pitched battles that everyone knows are coming up and can show up to, too. And, of course, essence could count towards the war score, possibly! 

Archaeon

I was thinking a bit about how we could turn this from 'guard bash and gank infamous people' to something a bit more fun.  The fact is that the current war system encourages off peak raids and guard bashing, ganking infamous people and generally being more opportunistic than tactical.  This is infuriating and has really brought out the worst in me, and I don't think I'm alone.  

My ideas would include tracking kills on soldiers, and giving points for that as well.  The points would be divided by how many people assisted in the kill.  So if you gank someone 6v1, six times, that would count the same as killing someone 1v1.  This could provide the opportunity for the people who enjoy the group aspect of things to still have fun, while giving the people who don't like group as much and would rather 1v1 an opportunity to assist as well.  Kind of like a Trojan war situation, where you had big wars and epic duels.  

Archaeon

Reyson said:

I have no idea how kills are weighted, but some kind of sliding scale like combat rankings (but not visible on honours or anything) would be cool. If someone is doing super great and murdering the other team but not getting killed back, they must be either very good or very lucky, so bringing them down being worth more than hitting the same old first target over and over would be a cool mechanic, though I'm sure it's code-heavy on the back end. 

this is a great idea, an HVT system besides the ruling council of a city would be awesome.  Especially since you don't have to be a great fighter to be a ruling council member, and would not put as much emphasis on pushing people that may not want to fight all the time into fighting. 

Saonji

Given the existence of the killstreak artifact (talisman?), it probably wouldn't be that heavy on the code.

Big Papa Jomi

If you’re gonna do that, make sure that deaths to allies/self/non-Targ/Mdor don’t count. I don’t know about guards because then after a good streak you can just guard-suicide BUT say one team raids and the other guards them, that should still count because you used guards instead of killing them yourself, which should reset the war streak. 

Maybe it only resets during sanction or with a certain number of enemies in the city?

Reyson

Yeah, I suppose. I dunno, I don't like coding, so I try not to think about it very much!

I'd really like the scale to be hidden, so that doing things like keeping a tab on enemies to see who's been murderin' a lot and hasn't died very much is an IC thing, rather than an OOC one, and rewards people keeping an eye out to how the fight is going from an IC perspective. 

I'm on the fence about the war posts. It does seem like fight-by-numbers, but on the other hand, I can see the value in tracking how things are going, for teams, so I dunno. I do wish they weren't quite so explicit, maybe, and more descriptive than numerical, or that the very numerical details, at least, are given through the War Council command, rather than through the posts. 

Kog

As a spectator-only for this, I find myself impatiently checking for the war summary post daily. Keep some info there, I love the feeling of this being a thing happening in the world that's talked about and recorded so people can gossip IC or OOC about it.

Santar

Achaea needs some brightly coloured world-messages for kill streaks during wars.

Santar has pwned Archaeon's head. WICKED SICK
Santar has pwned Astarod's head.  MONSTER KILL
Santar has pwned Achilles' head. GODLIKE!!!!
TRIPLE KILL!!!

Saonji

Santar said:

Santar has pwned Archaeon's head. WICKED SICK
Santar has pwned Astarod's head.  MONSTER KILL
Santar has pwned Achilles' head. GODLIKE!!!!
TRIPLE KILL!!!

Wicked sick is 25 kills. Godlike is 30. WS couldn't come before  
Also monster kill is a 6-kill multikill, so it isn't coming before triple kill (which isn't even a thing!)

Do you even Unreal? Fuck.

Santar

Saonji said:

Santar said:

Santar has pwned Archaeon's head. WICKED SICK
Santar has pwned Astarod's head.  MONSTER KILL
Santar has pwned Achilles' head. GODLIKE!!!!
TRIPLE KILL!!!

Wicked sick is 25 kills. Godlike is 30. WS couldn't come before  
Also monster kill is a 6-kill multikill, so it isn't coming before triple kill (which isn't even a thing!)

Do you even Unreal? Fuck.

Not my fault you playing the wrong game.

Kaios

Rackham said:

So yeah, if I had any indication that you guys were interested in fair fights, maybe I'd feel different about things. I don't mean to complain, because I guess Ashtan has historically done the same shit to Shallam. That's the way the game works. One side gets strong, and does whatever they want until they aren't strong anymore. It's just how things are. But that's totally why I'm getting so much satisfaction from this.

As someone who has only just started growing out of the 'novice' phase but having participated in quite a lot of fights so far, from my perspective that's how it always goes. It has happened to me constantly and I have participated in some of those scenarios myself, being ganked unfairly, bounties always being taken by the best fighters, ridiculous contracts, raids or defilings in which the odds are well against you, and in general dealing with people who think that role play consequences should take precedence over having a good time and enjoying oneself.

Often times when first joining a group that is about to go raiding the size is initially quite small, but if for example the defending city does not yet have enough available anyways to defend then they might choose to wait until some more are, but the longer you wait for your own people is giving more time for the attacking city to add more of their own too. You can blame a party leader for adding more in to their group but is it really fair to do that? From what I've seen everyone really does try their best to keep it somewhat fair but people just want to have fun and participate so why should they be left out because the numbers aren't entirely even?

I have noticed that everyone loves to complain about those things and yet they'll do them without a second thought to others. Oh you want to raid Hashan? No, sorry, get guarded on. Mhaldor? Guards again. Then Targossas uses guards even when they have the greater numbers and people are like "wow, why would they do that?!" A lot of hypocrisy going around lol.

Honestly, I have the most fun fighting against Ashtan because you almost never rely on guards even when Targossas does and it seems like you also have the least amount of fighters utilizing insanely automated systems which really does make the fights more enjoyable, for me at least.

Saonji

Kaios said:

Honestly, I have the most fun fighting against Ashtan because you almost never rely on guards even when Targossas does and it seems like you also have the least amount of fighters utilizing insanely automated systems which really does make the fights more enjoyable, for me at least.

As someone who plays in Ashtan, uh... Yeah about that...

Archaeon

this is a truly miserable experience.

Kinilan

I'm loving every second of this.

Stheno

I think Targossas has put forth a great effort and had us on the back foot a few times. The big, chaotic fights are especially fun.

The war mechanics do feel like more of an extended siege, where defunding and demoralising your enemy are part of a good strategy. From my perspective, it has driven city engagement not only in combat, but in hunting, trade, and preaching, and it has given us a chance to recognise people who would otherwise go unseen.

Big Papa Jomi

damn, that worldburn hurt

oh well