Do you like theft in Achaea?

Cooper

No comments necessary in the thread, please just vote yes or no!

Archaeon

Comment

Ryx

"Yes, with revisions"

[Deleted User]

Conceptually, it's a fine mechanic to have given what the world of Achaea is about...

How it's been implemented, no.

Morthif

Yes, but it needs real consequences for thieves. 

Torinn

Yes, but it's too easy for thieves to escape consequences

Ayani

Item theft, I don’t like. There are things I do not want resetting because I want to be able to gift them later on. Makes me really hesitant about using them as rp props. That means they just hide in packs or safe rooms until I have need of a gift. Always found that a bit of a bummer. Gold, though? I do not mind. 

Shirszae

No. No feasible consequence for the thief can balance the loss of a very important item for a character. 

Zackery

My issue with theft isn't with the mechanics as much as the fact that in-game possessions come from real-word purchases. If you buy $10 of credits, sell them on CFS, and then someone steals 120,000 gold from you, they essentially just took your $10. Or if you drop 50 customization credits to non-decay something (but don't have another 50 to drop on resetting) and it gets stolen, that's both the value of the item and the credits you lost. I know that's an oversimplification, but it still seems shitty to me that you can lose things bought with real money due to in-game events.

This is all just my opinion. Definitely understand that other folks won't necessarily view it this way.

Stheno

I rarely thieve, but a world without theft is less interesting from a story perspective.

Tonin

I don't enjoy it personally, but I don't think it needs to be removed.

Armali

A world without permadeath is less interesting too.

Cailin

I feel like some people are saying the same thing but voted differently. "yes but it needs changes" "no, unless it changes"

 I think theft is interesting enough, that if it could be made better, I'd vote Yes. But since I am unsure if the changes can/will be implemented, and I dislike theft in its current iteration, I voted no.

Rackham

If I had some recourse aside from shaking my fist angrily, and hoping my gold hoard is larger than whoever wants my stuff, then I'd find it an interesting mechanic.

Skye

I'm only saying no because I would like the ability to sit in some very nice public, non-city places that have been built over the years without someone trying to gaffle my wallet. It's a beautiful world with opportunities for interactions, but it's kinda demotivating to do so when it comes with the clause, "You can sit outside until someone starts casing you, then you gotta go sit on guards for the rest of the day until it wears off".

Penwize

Skye said:

"You can sit outside until someone starts casing you, then you gotta go sit on guards for the rest of the day until it wears off".

I don't actually understand this statement.  Are you under the impression that casing lets someone bypass selfishness, or take things you're currently wearing?  Casing doesn't really affect what you need to do to protect yourself from ordinary theft.  Someone can still steal your gold, sigils, letters, and keys (that aren't on keyrings) without casing you.  Casing gives you extra warning that they might be trying for something else, so you should keep an eye out and make extra sure you're keeping selfishness up (and not letting them drop it via hypnosis).  Or just, you know,  hire a mark to kill them after they case you so the cases go away.

Vinzent

Because Marks always act that quickly... Also why in the heck do keys not need casing. That seems like a horrible idea.

Skye

Doesn't have to be casing either anyway. A normal person does the same for regular pickpocket attempt too. Unless you're saying you're content to sit around and let them try again.

Astarod

I was robbed the other day by @Sothantos, because I wasn't paying attention to mobile defenses... I was lucky because I was able to buy everything back (since he's actually not a bad guy ), but I don't think there's a way to balance it so that the Thief has just as much at stake as the person who is carrying something.. for example an item that a now retired player gave to them. Such items are irreplaceable and would be very upsetting to lose. I would love it if I didn't have to just toss all that shit on the ship because of how insecure my inventory might be due to thievery

I think the buy back system was a great step forward, though I think it would be a great idea (in my opinion), if maybe it was altered so that items had a gold value that thieves would get rewarded when they were dropped off at a fence. Having everything converted to gold (and able to be bought back at that gold price by the victim) would be a fair reward for the level of consequence they face. 

Jovolo

We can dream for a world without theft, the sun would shine on that day as I wake with a smile on my face

Dominius

I've had stuff stolen from me before and I'd be angry about it too, but at the same time it forces me to be attentive which is a feature I enjoy in the game. Trying to talk to people who are just afk or interacting with other who aren't really there can be a drag when interaction is part of the reason we all play. If there was no theft, I imagine this would consequently get worse over time, making it less fun for a number of players. Those who like to steal and get chased and those who enjoy interaction. Less fun means less players and Achaea is most fun when there are lots of people around. Lots of players means lots of focus from developers, means lots of creativity and better gameplay. Keep theft to keep Achaea full!

Melodie

I'll clarify that the CONCEPT of theft isn't unattractive to me (several people know I enjoy thievery in Discworld), but the way its implemented and works in Achaea is just generally bleh and unappealing for many of the reasons stated above, and those reasons (to me) outweigh the fewer perks of the system for the great majority of the populace, newer players in particular.

Jovolo

Dominius said:

I've had stuff stolen from me before and I'd be angry about it too, but at the same time it forces me to be attentive which is a feature I enjoy in the game. Trying to talk to people who are just afk or interacting with other who aren't really there can be a drag when interaction is part of the reason we all play. If there was no theft, I imagine this would consequently get worse over time, making it less fun for a number of players. Those who like to steal and get chased and those who enjoy interaction. Less fun means less players and Achaea is most fun when there are lots of people around. Lots of players means lots of focus from developers, means lots of creativity and better gameplay. Keep theft to keep Achaea full!

I don;t know about this. Theft forcing people to stay attentive does not seem like a fun mechanic but more a reason for people to actually.. not want to play. I would rather have someone that is active 50% of the time in a world without thievery than someone who is 0% active because of a world with thievery. 

I might be on my own in this but there have been two instances in the 10+ years I've played where I've quit for a pretty significant period of time because I had either a very large amount of money stolen and on the other I had journals with several important literary works I had poured dozens of hours into. 

Yes it was my 'fault' for not paying attention at the point in time a thief happened to target me, but this is the thing with thievery

The punishment absolutely does not match the crime

Morsul

Dominius said:

I've had stuff stolen from me before and I'd be angry about it too, but at the same time it forces me to be attentive which is a feature I enjoy in the game. Trying to talk to people who are just afk or interacting with other who aren't really there can be a drag when interaction is part of the reason we all play. If there was no theft, I imagine this would consequently get worse over time, making it less fun for a number of players. Those who like to steal and get chased and those who enjoy interaction. Less fun means less players and Achaea is most fun when there are lots of people around. Lots of players means lots of focus from developers, means lots of creativity and better gameplay. Keep theft to keep Achaea full!

Lol. Actual result: people will rather QQ whenever they need to take even a short break because the alternative is losing your gold. And once you're logged off, it's easier to stay logged off and go through the hassle of logging in and deffing up.

Mindshell

There's a variance in types of theft in the game, some of them I consider better than others, like I'm cool with plundering, the threat there is contained and the loss is specific, you know what you're getting into with sailing.

PK based theft through forcing actions is a bit more restricted than it used to be, and I'm not really happy about the direction that went, but being able to interact with people's vials/pipes/weapons if they didn't take sufficient precautions were interesting alternatives as means to killing someone, like riftlocking, but more comprehensive.

Pickpocket, (untargeted) dabbles mostly in that realm too, with some espionage stuff by being able to nab letters as well, and those are humgii trash once you've read them. Pickpocket (targeted) I'm not fond of, it's a reskinned version of shake which ended up deleted, and that was also entirely preventable by fisting anything important to you, by opening up more personal items you evoke the more emotional responses that people will have to being stolen from, shake was trash, this is too.

Swiping items off the ground I'm also cool with, there's the ability to add defences to shops and property and take appropriate precautions, and merchandise is generic value. If you mess up, loss drives you to improve, I like the give and take on both ends, I think on a class level it's been restricted to serpent too much though, with theft being tied to forced actions before, there was a much broader scope of classes that could participate each with their own unique challenges.

Ryx

I might be on my own in this but there have been two instances in the 10+ years I've played where I've quit for a pretty significant period of time because I had either a very large amount of money stolen and on the other I had journals with several important literary works I had poured dozens of hours into. 

There was a really active guy in my House for the last two months that seemed to be a big thief target, because he was very very vocal about how much he'd lose and how he wanted us to kill the thief. He recently spontaneously retired without so much as a peep. When I asked, no one seemed to know about it. I've been wondering if this might've been a factor in his decision. 

Mroxyl

No

If it was gold only, then yes. As it is currently, nope.

Asmodron

Been meaning to post about this for a few days now.

The reasons I stand against theft (with what I see is a majority of the playerbase) is simply because not only does it provide a benefit to just the thief in the equation...but it also dilutes the experience of playing Achaea for the players. How?

Achaea is advertised as a world of "thousands of rooms and quests within areas", attempting to entice players to explore, experience and live it. Personally I love nothing more than to enjoy the immersive writing quality and effects our dedicated volunteers have produced. To simply explore and enjoy areas that have been developed with such intricacies that you would want your character to be there. We have all this provided...and yet...we then have theft, which we are told to: 'stand on guards to thwart the thief'. It counters the very idea of what Achaea is advertised for.

Just counter it:

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Some people say "Just get triggers" and "Just kill the thief lol" as well as "Dont hold anything of value". I honestly believe these people are attempting to ignore the obvious issue here. Firstly it isnt if we counter the attempt, it is the fact that -it is possible-, which in itself pushes the fear to avoid it. Not only are we human, but an internet connection isnt 100% always at its best. You're going to get distracted, or lag, or disconnected etc, and it takes just that slip-up to force you to lose something immensely precious to you and your character. Why should anyone want to experience that in a game of all things, without their choice?

The Targets:

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It isnt even the older players that get the most affected but rather the newer ones. Those just out of novicehood but still getting their bearings in Achaea. Those trying to discover the world and learn more about it. Those that discover that whenever they step outside their city...they apparently are being hounded by a player that is trying AND allowed via mechanics to strip them of everything. Most of us have known players throughout the years that just quit the game because of theft. It isnt healthy for the growth of the game as it never has been.

It provides great atmosphere:

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One excuse I recently heard is that apparently theft is needed because it provides a sense of danger to the world that would not be fun and too tame without it. Frankly that sounds like a fairly poor excuse for allowing this type of mechanic in place.

Achaea already inspires a sense of danger. You have warring city-states, aggressive mobs, horrifying stories/zones, destructive events (Tide was only a bit ago..), angry gods, heck even pygmies kidnapping people and more. Trying to emphasize that achaea would be too tame without theft is folly.

If we wanted to 'increase the danger of stepping outside the city', then there are other avenues that could be taken. Making weather temperatures affect those unprepared, roaming raiding npcs, heck make bandits on roads like those in Sojourn even. Who knows.

The point here is that theft doesnt 'add' to achaea, it subtracts. It doesnt add quality game time, for if anything it forces a player that doesnt want to have their things stolen to have to remain on guards for their playtime. It forces players to want to avoid exploring. It makes players feel like they dont want to log in as much...simply because why should they? Or they are on their phone and may get targetted.

Let's wrap this up:

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I stand against player theft because I want a better experience for players in Achaea. I've seen what theft does to players and all I see is subtracting from the experience as well as players that just dont want anything to do with the game. Theft should have been removed in Achaea long ago, like it was in the other IRE. The fact it not only remains...but coding time went into providing a new system for it....for a mechanic that benefits some 10 people...is very surprising.

If theft should remain then it should either target only NPCS...or only player gold...as gold is in itself a commodity that comes and goes as is and people need not hold millions on them to begin with.

As it stands now, it is not healthy for this game or its future.

Caelan

Asmodron said:

Been meaning to post about this for a few days now.

The reasons I stand against theft (with what I see [appears to be] a majority of the [forum using]  playerbase [who also chose to answer this poll - albeit in a way that they would answer no but mean yes, or vice versa, as well as by those who flatly answered]) is simply because not only does it provide a benefit to just the thief in the equation...but it also dilutes the experience of playing Achaea for the players. How?

FTFY. 

Also, I don't like theft, but I answered yes because I think it does add to the game overall.  It adds a very real sense of impending danger, discourages idling/afk, almost forces interaction, and if you get robbed and call Profit every name in the book, you likely won't get your shit back so it teaches a bit of that too.

There is a trend lately with everyone here wanted the entire game changed to their preference, and/or just bitching loud enough that admin change things so you don't have to deal with it.  I understand gameplay varies by person and is a shifting dynamic but the shouting vocal minority has a longer track record of making things shittier than better.

Jovolo

It's not really a minority though. 


2/3 of nearly 100 people who answered the poll have said they do not like theft, at the very least not in its current incarnation. You can try and spin that how you like but the point stands that it is you who is in the minority of people that enjoy how theft currently impacts the game

Morsul

maybe if we use the electoral college, the thieves would win