If you could change one thing about a class... what would it be?

Elisella

I don't know how you'd fit an instakill into Runelore without one of the following happening:

A: It relies on affliction pressure, making it practically worthless to DWB/2H.
B: It relies on limb prep, making it an analogue of Damnation/Vivisect and opening up the Infernal problem of "nigh-unavoidable fork".
C: It relies on a health/mana threshold, thus defeating the purpose of a fork from disembowel in the first place.

B is probably the best option there. A isn't necessarily a valid complaint, given that SnB/2H can struggle with Vivisect while the odds of 2H/DWB pulling off Damnation are "lol" at best.

I don't think anyone can honestly say that Runelore isn't strong and doesn't synergize with knights. The problem is that it's an older skill that isn't as shiny as everything else and is mostly passive in both setup and execution.

Riell

Elisella said:

I don't know how you'd fit an instakill into Runelore without one of the following happening:

A: It relies on affliction pressure, making it practically worthless to DWB/2H.
B: It relies on limb prep, making it an analogue of Damnation/Vivisect and opening up the Infernal problem of "nigh-unavoidable fork".
C: It relies on a health/mana threshold, thus defeating the purpose of a fork from disembowel in the first place.

B is probably the best option there. A isn't necessarily a valid complaint, given that SnB/2H can struggle with Vivisect while the odds of 2H/DWB pulling off Damnation are "lol" at best.

I don't think anyone can honestly say that Runelore isn't strong and doesn't synergize with knights. The problem is that it's an older skill that isn't as shiny as everything else and is mostly passive in both setup and execution.

An instakill does not need to be viable for all specs.  Damnation and Vivisect are limited in scope based on specialisation, and I think that's okay.

Sobriquet

Phew. Glad I use all of those then!

Just... totems, please fix totem times...

[Deleted User]

Riell said:

Passive balance loss (which has a very real potential of stopping kill setups, especially from prep)

Fuckin' isaz. (Yes I'm aware I could have just damaged him out; I like FuneralMass. Yes I'm aware I forgot voyria the first time.)

Also meteor doesn't really replicate thurisaz. Thurisaz hits much harder than meteors, after meteor nerf a few years back. (star tarot still stronk tho)

Iakimen

Riell said:

Definitely do not think Runelore is OP at all.  I do, however, think that too many Runewardens do not capitalize on everything it has to offer.

Passive healing
Passive curing
Passive balance loss (which has a very real potential of stopping kill setups, especially from prep)
Hunger strats can be extremely potent against lots of people
Weapon runes enhancing prep times are amazing
Runeblades have incredibly high pressure, especially with hidden affs in group combat and guaranteed freeze.
Prop can win engagements.
Walls that are unbreakable by the majority of the playerbase.
Fucking raido.
Tumbling into wunjo/nairat on kill attempts
Passive vibe dampening.
Thurisaz (though this can be replicated with meteor arrows. However, Thurisaz is cheaper.)

Probably the two most under-appreciated things I see with many Runewardens are Othala and Hugulaz.  Passive shield breaking (and -prismatic barrier breaking-) is really, really good.  The fact you can start Othala in one room, then move and have it follow you while still getting all three hits is pretty awesome.  In my testing against Proficy, it's ~21% total hp damage passively in one balance.  Hugalaz is ~30-35% total hp damage.  Othala and Hugalaz combined is ~50-55% total hp damage, occurring while you are actively damaging, as well.  They can be stacked and hitting simultaneously due to Othala's delayed wind up.  IMO, Thurisaz, Othala, and Hugalaz make Runewarden a damage-strat powerhouse.

That's a LOT of super good stuff in one skillset.

When considering the idea of activating a rune for its effect, just no.  Even if you exclude Nairat, you still have Fehu (sleep), Pithakhan (mana damage - consider mana draining runeblades on top of this to pressure focus locks), Isaz (which would be on-demand balance loss), Loshre (anorexia), and Ingaz (paralysis).  I believe these runes would, if activated on their own balance, would have zero to minimal impact since all these effects can be achieved better through weaponmastery with Runeblades.  Therefore, to make the skill worthwhile, the argument could be made that the rune should be able to be activated with a weaponmastery strike.  This gives dwc and snb triple-afflict powers (including paralysis and anorexia - two locking afflitions) on demand.

IMO, Runelore is missing something very important, however: a viable instakill that would serve as an alternative to disembowel.  As it stands, it can be next to impossible for an unartefacted Runewarden to kill a decently artefacted target; this is not a situation that should ever occur.  Artefacts shouldn't make you unkillable to those without them.  They should just make it reasonably more difficult.

I don't really disagree with most of this, but many of these abilities are not as powerful as you make it seem. Passive aff healing/health regen is an incredibly common abillity across classes, and there are a number of superior versions of both. Isaz is quite good. Hunger strats are extremely potent against noobs and people who forget to bring food to the arena. Runeblades do have good pressure, and I've never agreed with the nairat change to prone targets. Prop can win engagements, as can many other abilities. Stonewalls are breakable by common non-factionals - Runewardens, DWs (though this varies), and Dragons, especially with Elder growing common. Not as much of a conundrum in groups as you are making it out to be. Raido is good, though its potency often leans on people being too stupid to counter it. Tumbling into wunjo/nairat is fair - that's their method of prone defense, and it is not as strong as it used to be. Strong area control, though. Eihwaz? I agree this is fairly solid, and also underused - equivalent to a permanent cube sigil on the ground for its duration. You need the water sketching artie to make use of this in a 1v1, and your use of it has to be fairly intelligent - reverb deals with this. Thurisaz is good. It has its counters, but those counters force the opponent to also play different. It's a great ability.

I don't disagree with your assessment of othala and hugalaz either, though I'm getting the feeling that you haven't been playing this game for long, or with good people. What kind of Runies are you fighting and fight with, that haven't effectively utilized what you mentioned? Dagaz/uruz/isaz are probably the most commonly sketched ground runes in 1v1s. Wunjo/nairat/gular in conjunction with tumble and running are a staple for Runie defense, with raido as a save. Runeblades are a no-brainer - of course everyone has this. Props are the first thing that is taught to Runie noobs, though admittedly they start off quite poor at it. Thurisaz/hugalaz damage stacking has been a leaned on strat for as long as I've played this game, and much longer (othala's change to barrier is fairly new). Sketching hugalaz before group engagements or for finishers is extremely common. The only abilities I've seen poorly utilised by most Runies are probably eihwaz and othala. Of course Runewarden has strong damage abilities - I mean, that is how that class is supposed to operate. Even mana locks are realistically a way to secure killing them with damage.

You're not thinking outside of the box enough - or at all. Assign new functions to a group of runes (I'd choose the ones that have little use, like loshre or tiwaz) that can be activated for a certain effect once sketched. There are a lot of little finnicky things you can do - you can vary balance costs, incorporate an individual or global rune activation cooldown, you can have certain runes activate only if certain other runes are on or not on the ground. You can get a little innovative and crazy with this, which is the point. They do not have to maintain anything like their current function - I wouldn't want that at all, really.

Riell

Iakimen said:

You're not thinking outside of the box enough - or at all. Assign new functions to a group of runes (I'd choose the ones that have little use, like loshre or tiwaz) that can be activated for a certain effect once sketched.

Yea, repurposing the not-so-useful runes to have special functions like that would be cool!  I can get behind that take on it, for sure.

Elisella

Add runes to armor as well for a silly bonus passive defense.

Like...I dunno. Waterbreathing, searing glyph functionality, regeneration while on fire. Silly things.

Minifie

add body functionality but only 3 slots, it’s where you can add or change functions from some of the shittier runes. PHYSICALLY OFFENSIVE TRAMP STAMPS!

Tahquil

I would have the viridian long description change to reflect what herbs you have propagated. Just a tiny little flavour thing.

Reyson

Effects specific to runeblades based off of affs you stick prior would be slick, leading into an instakill or possibly cool effects. 

E.g. sketch whatever on runeblade, you have a special variant of the spec's attack that's untargeted and goes through rebounding but not shield (or whatever testing reveals is necessary to make it doable but not trivial), and if the target has, say, a hardlock, you eat up all their mana. Or if they have two broken arms and are slick, it burns all the cures in their inventory. Or if they have two damaged legs and are frozen, it speeds up cleave by three seconds. A concussion if they have a damaged head, leg, and are blacked out, perhaps. Maybe just a level two head gives the old falcon bal strip effect, for nostalgia's sake, and also because that'd be pretty hilarious.

ETA: no mention on DWB is purposeful, y'all can go to hell.

Khalyon

I would like to see different types of runes sketched on runeblades, especially for 2h and maybe dwb. Kind of like venoms, change them up during a fight to give a different affliction. They could possibly change the relapse times to balance it out a little bit. Much like @Reyson's idea. 

I also love the idea of activated runes.

Leviticus

Atalkez said:

Make BM great again

This guy gets it.

Devran

I still am in love with an overhaul to Jester like I suggested here https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/399199#Comment_399199

I just really like the thought of a class like that. An overhaul is technically 'changing one thing' about the class right?

Morthif

Make bard flavor more manly. 

Riell

Need to test something ignore me

Minifie

Morthif said:

Make bard flavor more manly. 

Huh, never took you for a connoisseur of man flavour.

Galyleo

Minifie said:

Morthif said:

Make bard flavor more manly. 

Huh, never took you for a connoisseur of man flavour.

Edit:(I personally think Bard is fine the way it is as far as it's flavor goes)

Shirszae

Bard could actually stand to be a little less swashbuckler and more actual ministrel, imo. 

Jiraishin

Bard could stand to be a little less spammy.

Riell

Bard could stand to be deleted. -.-

Penwize

Shirszae said:

Bard could actually stand to be a little less swashbuckler and more actual ministrel, imo. 

Sounds to me like bards need to be split into two flavour specs: swashbuckler and minstrel.  That way Morthif can have his man flavour, and Cyrene can have its artsy flavour.

Morthif

I'd prefer minstrel over swashbuckler

Finchy

Penwize said:

Shirszae said:

Bard could actually stand to be a little less swashbuckler and more actual ministrel, imo. 

Sounds to me like bards need to be split into two flavour specs: swashbuckler and minstrel.  That way Morthif can have his man flavour, and Cyrene can have its artsy flavour.

I'd love to know the original floorplan for the class, it reeks of being two ideas melded into one, Swashbuckling is in serious need of being airlifted out and given a foil blanket. 

Galyleo

All I really want changed about Bard is being able to see what affliction is given when Contradanse hits, but that is just because I want to track that so I don't over-lap afflictions

[Deleted User]

Galyleo said:

All I really want changed about Bard is being able to see what affliction is given when Contradanse hits, but that is just because I want to track that so I don't over-lap afflictions

This was approved as a classlead a few rounds back, from memory. Don't know what ever came of it.
@Makarios

Finchy

(Paraphrased from @Riell's post a page ago)

Runewardens need a viable instakill to stand in place of Vivi

Done. 

Vender

Bards can break legs trivially and quickly with epic/jab and tremolo. They can also cancel tumble with noise as well as having access to lunge. A bard can keep an opponent prone with martellato and epics and curare/gecko jabs. You can also freeze ground, get tumbleweed, use walls. There is a reason why Bard does not have room hinder and but most bards simply don't use all the tools available to them.

Antonius

This thread is for crazy unbalanced ideas that will never happen. Get your well-reasoned arguments out of here.

Taryius

I wish I could use fire staffcasts instead of ice without sacrificing all my damage.

Vender

Antonius said:

This thread is for crazy unbalanced ideas that will never happen. Get your well-reasoned arguments out of here.

Well then, I'd give Serpents off-balance hypnosis suggestions then.