Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

If you could change one thing about a class... what would it be?

13»

Comments

  • ElisellaElisella Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I don't know how you'd fit an instakill into Runelore without one of the following happening:

    A: It relies on affliction pressure, making it practically worthless to DWB/2H.
    B: It relies on limb prep, making it an analogue of Damnation/Vivisect and opening up the Infernal problem of "nigh-unavoidable fork".
    C: It relies on a health/mana threshold, thus defeating the purpose of a fork from disembowel in the first place.

    B is probably the best option there. A isn't necessarily a valid complaint, given that SnB/2H can struggle with Vivisect while the odds of 2H/DWB pulling off Damnation are "lol" at best.

    I don't think anyone can honestly say that Runelore isn't strong and doesn't synergize with knights. The problem is that it's an older skill that isn't as shiny as everything else and is mostly passive in both setup and execution.
  • RiellRiell Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Elisella said:
    I don't know how you'd fit an instakill into Runelore without one of the following happening:

    A: It relies on affliction pressure, making it practically worthless to DWB/2H.
    B: It relies on limb prep, making it an analogue of Damnation/Vivisect and opening up the Infernal problem of "nigh-unavoidable fork".
    C: It relies on a health/mana threshold, thus defeating the purpose of a fork from disembowel in the first place.

    B is probably the best option there. A isn't necessarily a valid complaint, given that SnB/2H can struggle with Vivisect while the odds of 2H/DWB pulling off Damnation are "lol" at best.

    I don't think anyone can honestly say that Runelore isn't strong and doesn't synergize with knights. The problem is that it's an older skill that isn't as shiny as everything else and is mostly passive in both setup and execution.
    An instakill does not need to be viable for all specs.  Damnation and Vivisect are limited in scope based on specialisation, and I think that's okay.
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,240 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Phew. Glad I use all of those then!

    Just... totems, please fix totem times...
    image
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 1,274 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 5
    Riell said:

    Passive balance loss (which has a very real potential of stopping kill setups, especially from prep)
    Fuckin' isaz. (Yes I'm aware I could have just damaged him out; I like FuneralMass. Yes I'm aware I forgot voyria the first time.)
    Also meteor doesn't really replicate thurisaz. Thurisaz hits much harder than meteors, after meteor nerf a few years back. (star tarot still stronk tho)

    Riell
  • IakimenIakimen Member Posts: 96 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 6
    Riell said:

    Definitely do not think Runelore is OP at all.  I do, however, think that too many Runewardens do not capitalize on everything it has to offer.

    Passive healing
    Passive curing
    Passive balance loss (which has a very real potential of stopping kill setups, especially from prep)
    Hunger strats can be extremely potent against lots of people
    Weapon runes enhancing prep times are amazing
    Runeblades have incredibly high pressure, especially with hidden affs in group combat and guaranteed freeze.
    Prop can win engagements.
    Walls that are unbreakable by the majority of the playerbase.
    Fucking raido.
    Tumbling into wunjo/nairat on kill attempts
    Passive vibe dampening.
    Thurisaz (though this can be replicated with meteor arrows. However, Thurisaz is cheaper.)

    Probably the two most under-appreciated things I see with many Runewardens are Othala and Hugulaz.  Passive shield breaking (and -prismatic barrier breaking-) is really, really good.  The fact you can start Othala in one room, then move and have it follow you while still getting all three hits is pretty awesome.  In my testing against Proficy, it's ~21% total hp damage passively in one balance.  Hugalaz is ~30-35% total hp damage.  Othala and Hugalaz combined is ~50-55% total hp damage, occurring while you are actively damaging, as well.  They can be stacked and hitting simultaneously due to Othala's delayed wind up.  IMO, Thurisaz, Othala, and Hugalaz make Runewarden a damage-strat powerhouse.

    That's a LOT of super good stuff in one skillset.

    When considering the idea of activating a rune for its effect, just no.  Even if you exclude Nairat, you still have Fehu (sleep), Pithakhan (mana damage - consider mana draining runeblades on top of this to pressure focus locks), Isaz (which would be on-demand balance loss), Loshre (anorexia), and Ingaz (paralysis).  I believe these runes would, if activated on their own balance, would have zero to minimal impact since all these effects can be achieved better through weaponmastery with Runeblades.  Therefore, to make the skill worthwhile, the argument could be made that the rune should be able to be activated with a weaponmastery strike.  This gives dwc and snb triple-afflict powers (including paralysis and anorexia - two locking afflitions) on demand.

    IMO, Runelore is missing something very important, however: a viable instakill that would serve as an alternative to disembowel.  As it stands, it can be next to impossible for an unartefacted Runewarden to kill a decently artefacted target; this is not a situation that should ever occur.  Artefacts shouldn't make you unkillable to those without them.  They should just make it reasonably more difficult.
    I don't really disagree with most of this, but many of these abilities are not as powerful as you make it seem. Passive aff healing/health regen is an incredibly common abillity across classes, and there are a number of superior versions of both. Isaz is quite good. Hunger strats are extremely potent against noobs and people who forget to bring food to the arena. Runeblades do have good pressure, and I've never agreed with the nairat change to prone targets. Prop can win engagements, as can many other abilities. Stonewalls are breakable by common non-factionals - Runewardens, DWs (though this varies), and Dragons, especially with Elder growing common. Not as much of a conundrum in groups as you are making it out to be. Raido is good, though its potency often leans on people being too stupid to counter it. Tumbling into wunjo/nairat is fair - that's their method of prone defense, and it is not as strong as it used to be. Strong area control, though. Eihwaz? I agree this is fairly solid, and also underused - equivalent to a permanent cube sigil on the ground for its duration. You need the water sketching artie to make use of this in a 1v1, and your use of it has to be fairly intelligent - reverb deals with this. Thurisaz is good. It has its counters, but those counters force the opponent to also play different. It's a great ability.

    I don't disagree with your assessment of othala and hugalaz either, though I'm getting the feeling that you haven't been playing this game for long, or with good people. What kind of Runies are you fighting and fight with, that haven't effectively utilized what you mentioned? Dagaz/uruz/isaz are probably the most commonly sketched ground runes in 1v1s. Wunjo/nairat/gular in conjunction with tumble and running are a staple for Runie defense, with raido as a save. Runeblades are a no-brainer - of course everyone has this. Props are the first thing that is taught to Runie noobs, though admittedly they start off quite poor at it. Thurisaz/hugalaz damage stacking has been a leaned on strat for as long as I've played this game, and much longer (othala's change to barrier is fairly new). Sketching hugalaz before group engagements or for finishers is extremely common. The only abilities I've seen poorly utilised by most Runies are probably eihwaz and othala. Of course Runewarden has strong damage abilities - I mean, that is how that class is supposed to operate. Even mana locks are realistically a way to secure killing them with damage.

    You're not thinking outside of the box enough - or at all. Assign new functions to a group of runes (I'd choose the ones that have little use, like loshre or tiwaz) that can be activated for a certain effect once sketched. There are a lot of little finnicky things you can do - you can vary balance costs, incorporate an individual or global rune activation cooldown, you can have certain runes activate only if certain other runes are on or not on the ground. You can get a little innovative and crazy with this, which is the point. They do not have to maintain anything like their current function - I wouldn't want that at all, really.
    ElisellaShirszae
  • RiellRiell Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Iakimen said:

    You're not thinking outside of the box enough - or at all. Assign new functions to a group of runes (I'd choose the ones that have little use, like loshre or tiwaz) that can be activated for a certain effect once sketched.
    Yea, repurposing the not-so-useful runes to have special functions like that would be cool!  I can get behind that take on it, for sure.
    Elisella
  • ElisellaElisella Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Add runes to armor as well for a silly bonus passive defense.

    Like...I dunno. Waterbreathing, searing glyph functionality, regeneration while on fire. Silly things.
  • MinifieMinifie Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    add body functionality but only 3 slots, it’s where you can add or change functions from some of the shittier runes. PHYSICALLY OFFENSIVE TRAMP STAMPS!


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
    Caelan
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,122 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I would have the viridian long description change to reflect what herbs you have propagated. Just a tiny little flavour thing.
    Elisella
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited February 6
    Effects specific to runeblades based off of affs you stick prior would be slick, leading into an instakill or possibly cool effects. 

    E.g. sketch whatever on runeblade, you have a special variant of the spec's attack that's untargeted and goes through rebounding but not shield (or whatever testing reveals is necessary to make it doable but not trivial), and if the target has, say, a hardlock, you eat up all their mana. Or if they have two broken arms and are slick, it burns all the cures in their inventory. Or if they have two damaged legs and are frozen, it speeds up cleave by three seconds. A concussion if they have a damaged head, leg, and are blacked out, perhaps. Maybe just a level two head gives the old falcon bal strip effect, for nostalgia's sake, and also because that'd be pretty hilarious.

    ETA: no mention on DWB is purposeful, y'all can go to hell.
    Shirszae
13»
Sign In to Comment.