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May Promotion

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Iohanna said:
    I didn't and still really don't understand what the craze for the Matic card was
    People assumed by "high end crit" then it would be WSC / Plane-razing... In which case you could use it to 1 shot otherwise tough mobs, like Xu on Prin, the Duke in Sirocco etc. Which is huge value.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Sena said:
    Worst-case scenario is it multiplies your average damage (before accounting for crit paragons) by about 2.5 at top-end crit rate (level 100+, +8% total crit bonuses), and by 6.4 at level 80 with no crit bonus.
    That's if you roll for your crit as normal, and if it's less than obliterating, you get obliterating instead.
    Do you have a crucious paragon, the one that allows for 64x crits (because normally they're not possible)? If not, then it means that Matic is allowing you to get higher crits than you normally could, and is better than this worst-case scenario.
    Even if this is the case, the ability to more than double your average damage (or more than sextuple at mid-level) for 1 hit per hour is pretty useful and compares well to other artefacts considering the price, though moreso for classes with slow attacks (I'd probably be pretty annoyed with it as a monk, assuming it only applies to one hit of a combo).

    Better case  scenario (though I suspect the actual functionality is still better than this) is that it simply starts you out at obliterating in place of normal attacks, and rolls for higher crits as usual from there. In that case (same assumptions as before), it multiplies your average damage by about 4.5 at top end, 7.8 at mid-level.
    Again, if Matic is actually allowing for 64x hits, then it's probably even better than this.
    At 300cr (which is what I paid given the information I was able to glean) it’s not anywhere near “equal” to other hunting arties, and yes, I am blood maiden cape away from pretty much having them all. The reason matic was high on my last was that I could guarantee that crit when I wanted it, and that’s important for clearing rooms that are not worth it (clyn/shale, krui’s room, frost wraith+spider/serpent, duke semiro’s room). If I can’t guarantee that crit, it’s not worth it to enter clyn and krui’s room, and makes a crapshoot for the rest.

    if you are happy with it, then w/e, but considering the other factors, it’s barely worth 100cr, 
  • IohannaIohanna
    Yeah, that definitely makes sense to me when it's put into perspective like that. Achaea has far greater minds than my own, and I try to wait and get the general consensus before diving in. I'm glad that we do have people who take the time to sit down, think and test out the numbers just as Sena made some great points in the post above.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Iohanna said:
    I didn't and still really don't understand what the craze for the Matic card was, and I couldn't imagine paying more than the average for the rest of the cards. It's only 3 criticals up front, and then one critical an hour afterward. Even then, I personally wouldn't pay 50cr for that. Definitely not trying to pour salt on the wound, but that sounds like a good idea. It's been like this for as long as I've been playing, the whole vagueness/having to test for numbers.
    Because turning rooms that you’d ignore into guaranteed kills is worth it, which is what the wording of matic lead people like me to believe.

    maths is pointless when it’s not something a number of hunters got for *speed*, I got it for practicality, and it still isn’t worth it because if I can’t guarantee an insta kill on shale/krui for example (and mobs in underrealm), then the room is still worth avoiding. Sena’s math is right, but she’s completely missed WHY it looked so good in the process.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Pyori said:
    Iohanna said:
    I didn't and still really don't understand what the craze for the Matic card was
    People assumed by "high end crit" then it would be WSC / Plane-razing... In which case you could use it to 1 shot otherwise tough mobs, like Xu on Prin, the Duke in Sirocco etc. Which is huge value.
    This, right here.
  • SenaSena
    edited May 2018
    Minifie said:
    At 300cr (which is what I paid given the information I was able to glean)
    I didn't expect people were actually paying 300 for it, I was assuming 200. Still, even 300 doesn't seem too terrible if it's at least as good as the second scenario I mentioned. It's a more niche use (clearing out the occasional tough rooms like you said) than other artefacts, but it's also far more effective than any offensive artefact for that purpose.
  • MinifieMinifie
    edited May 2018
    Sena said:
    Minifie said:
    At 300cr (which is what I paid given the information I was able to glean)
    I didn't expect people were actually paying 300 for it, I was assuming 200. Still, even 300 doesn't seem too terrible if it's at least as good as the second scenario I mentioned. It's a more niche use (clearing out the occasional tough rooms like you said) than other artefacts, but it's also far more effective than any offensive artefact for that purpose.
    Question: what do you hunt and at what level? Matic isn’t something I had planned to use on cooldown, it had other uses (3 werewolves better matic to survive) but 2 oblits as serpent won’t down one werewolf.

    matic wasn’t a throughput artie, it’s a conditional utility artie for me, 300 is worth it if it landed a PRC or even WSC because it turns bad rooms into easy kills and potential deaths into survivals while still hunting.

    and again, the wording on the news post was vague, and someone had to be the guinea pig. The reports I got was only landing WSC and PRC, which made 300cr worth it.

    @Makarios

    @Nicola thoughts?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited May 2018
    Yeah, using it on cooldown is uh... Bad. It's definitely not as amazing as thought, and certainly not equal. Generally the thought was that if it had 3 charges, it would be a guaranteed WSC/PRC and thus used to take out powerful mobs / dangerous+grouped mobs. As it stands it really should have more charges, or a faster regen rate, if it's oblit and above...
  • SenaSena
    edited May 2018
    Minifie said:
    maths is pointless when it’s not something a number of hunters got for *speed*, I got it for practicality, and it still isn’t worth it because if I can’t guarantee an insta kill on shale/krui for example (and mobs in underrealm), then the room is still worth avoiding. Sena’s math is right, but she’s completely missed WHY it looked so good in the process.
    Just a note, I wasn't saying it was good for overall speed, since no matter how it works it doesn't compare to other artefacts in that regard when you only get 1 hit per hour, even if it guaranteed 32x or higher. Unless you only bash in short bursts, but then you're probably not the type to buy bashing artefacts/cards anyway. I assumed exactly the use case you mentioned, taking out a tough denizen/group that would otherwise be too dangerous or take too long.

    Minifie said:
    Question: what do you hunt and at what level? Matic isn’t something I had planned to use on cooldown, it had other uses (3 werewolves better matic to survive) but 2 oblits as serpent won’t down one werewolf.

    matic wasn’t a throughput artie, it’s a conditional utility artie for me, 300 is worth it if it landed a PRC or even WSC because it turns bad rooms into easy kills and potential deaths into survivals while still hunting.
    I'm pretty much inactive right now and don't hunt at all, and level 83. I fully admit I don't have much experience with high-level hunting, I don't know how much health different denizens have or the layout of the high-level areas.
    I think you're automatically treating it as the worst-case scenario without enough information to go on though. In the second scenario I mentioned (before accounting for paragons because I don't have actual numbers for them), the chances of using two charges and both being oblit is less than 25%. Your chance of world-shattering jumps from about 3% to 25%. It's not a guaranteed clear, but it's a far higher chance.
    Also, like I said, it would be more effective for other classes, with slower balance but more damage per hit. Serpent is more about speed, making Matic a lot less useful.

    Mostly, I'm just saying we don't have enough information to make a call, and it could still potentially be good depending on how exactly it works.
  • MinifieMinifie
    edited May 2018
    Not guaranteeing a WSC or PRC is death against clynalia/shale. I’m treating it as a “worst case scenario” because what I use it for, if I don’t I risk a visit to ugrach. It is why I am not interested in why an oblit or AP is still “good”, because they AREN’T “good enough”. 

    Glad I tested on krui, I can at least run there. Clyn/shale woulda eaten me :(

    we are coming from 2 entirely different views here. You might think you are not gauging it for throughput, but if I can not guarantee that flipping that card will kill my target, I am either dead or skipping that room, and in that case, what else but for throughput would I use it for?
  • SenaSena
    Minifie said:
    Not guaranteeing a WSC or PRC is death against clynalia/shale. I’m treating it as a “worst case scenario” because what I use it for, if I don’t I risk a visit to ugrach. It is why I am not interested in why an oblit or AP is still “good”, because they AREN’T “good enough”. 

    Glad I tested on krui, I can at least run there. Clyn/shale woulda eaten me :(

    we are coming from 2 entirely different views here. You might think you are not gauging it for throughput, but if I can not guarantee that flipping that card will kill my target, I am either dead or skipping that room, and in that case, what else but for throughput would I use it for?
    I never said anything under world-shattering is still good or good enough. I did assume though that you wouldn't be using it against things that would be a guaranteed death if they didn't die instantly. Is it really rare to find things that aren't worth it normally, but you can still survive a few rounds?
  • MinifieMinifie
    Sena said:
    Minifie said:
    Not guaranteeing a WSC or PRC is death against clynalia/shale. I’m treating it as a “worst case scenario” because what I use it for, if I don’t I risk a visit to ugrach. It is why I am not interested in why an oblit or AP is still “good”, because they AREN’T “good enough”. 

    Glad I tested on krui, I can at least run there. Clyn/shale woulda eaten me :(

    we are coming from 2 entirely different views here. You might think you are not gauging it for throughput, but if I can not guarantee that flipping that card will kill my target, I am either dead or skipping that room, and in that case, what else but for throughput would I use it for?
    I never said anything under world-shattering is still good or good enough. I did assume though that you wouldn't be using it against things that would be a guaranteed death if they didn't die instantly. Is it really rare to find things that aren't worth it normally, but you can still survive a few rounds?
    Clynalia/shale will web and rope with hamstring and stuttering, they can stack them fast.

    2 werewolves is fine, the third is going to bleed me out, anc I have to evade out of lupine

    a frost wraith or wendigo walking in on a spider or snake can find me stunned long enough to die (especially with spuder for stun/webt)

    krui’s room is odd but they can all loki with damage and hit with a stun and prone, which can still clean me up easily.

    underrealm entrance has a lot of quad mangling mobs that can walk in and devastate me with a other mob quite quickly, add in triple loki from ravers as well.

    if you get jumped in annwyn sometimes being able to one shot your mob to give you some breathing space (especially sidhe) can be the different between surviving or even fighting back.
  • TaryiusTaryius
    Hmmm. Unless this has some funky interactoin with the crit paragons( that I don't have), or has changed in the last 48 hours, I have only ever gotten 16x or 32x crits from Matic from many, many uses.
  • FarrahFarrah
    Minifie said:
    Sena said:
    Minifie said:
    At 300cr (which is what I paid given the information I was able to glean)
    I didn't expect people were actually paying 300 for it, I was assuming 200. Still, even 300 doesn't seem too terrible if it's at least as good as the second scenario I mentioned. It's a more niche use (clearing out the occasional tough rooms like you said) than other artefacts, but it's also far more effective than any offensive artefact for that purpose.
    Question: what do you hunt and at what level? Matic isn’t something I had planned to use on cooldown, it had other uses (3 werewolves better matic to survive) but 2 oblits as serpent won’t down one werewolf.

    matic wasn’t a throughput artie, it’s a conditional utility artie for me, 300 is worth it if it landed a PRC or even WSC because it turns bad rooms into easy kills and potential deaths into survivals while still hunting.

    and again, the wording on the news post was vague, and someone had to be the guinea pig. The reports I got was only landing WSC and PRC, which made 300cr worth it.

    You don't have to spend 300 credits to be a guinea pig. If you have a question about an artefact, you can ISSUE ME or message Makarios or Nicola and ask before you buy. Just FYI.
  • MinifieMinifie
    I try to only message mak when I think it's valuable feedback or useful information. Wasting his time with "them crits, how big we talkin' about?" just felt stupid, but I'll probably just do so from now on.

    FYI though if Mak complains, I'm sending him your way!
  • MinifieMinifie
    Makarios said:
    Answering questions is never a bother - you can always send them my way.

    That said, we'll discuss Matic today (or tomorrow at the latest - Sundays are always a bit hit and miss).
    Thanks Mak! I am not pissed or anything, I'm just not sure the rarity of the card reflects the usefulness is all, but I'll wait, I've been playing around with it to see what tricks I can do with it.
  • AntoniusAntonius
    You're assuming that the rarity is intended, and not just a consequence of RNG, which may not be the case. They all have the same redeem value which usually means they're all intended to have the same chance to show up.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • MinifieMinifie
    Antonius said:
    You're assuming that the rarity is intended, and not just a consequence of RNG, which may not be the case. They all have the same redeem value which usually means they're all intended to have the same chance to show up.
    no, but without access to those numbers at all, and the distinct lack of them being OPENLY known, them being rare is a possible hypothesis. If they have the same drop rate, Mak could confirm (although I doubt that's numbers he'd want to divulge).
  • IsmayIsmay
    Minifie said:
    I try to only message mak when I think it's valuable feedback or useful information. Wasting his time with "them crits, how big we talkin' about?" just felt stupid, but I'll probably just do so from now on.

    FYI though if Mak complains, I'm sending him your way!

    I'm the world's worst at doing ISSUE MEs for artefact questions. They've always been very good at answering any questions I have!
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


  • MindshellMindshell
    I'd really like a way to look at the cards once they're already in the deck, with all the effort put into giving them nice descriptions and then its lost once you deck it. Would be a nice feature to preserve the aesthetic of collecting all the cards.
  • EllodinEllodin Hawaii
    from a few days ago:

    Sent By: Meletus on 05 May 2018, 10:32
    Greetings! Regarding your issue #82737: Unfortunately there is no way at present to probe the cards in your deck. However, we are working on the matter, and there should be a solution soon. In the meantime, please let us know if you have any further questions via ISSUE ME!

    also would be nice to be able to showoff in some way

    And as he slept he dreamed a dream, and this was his dream.
  • ReysonReyson
    If there's no way to play that one game where you drink and put the famous person's card on your forehead and you have to guess who it is, I'll be sorely disappointed. 
  • MindshellMindshell
    Well that went in quick, feels like a collection now. :)
  • ExelethrilExelethril
    L'enfer, c'est les autres.

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
  • AnkhareoutefAnkhareoutef
    Are any of the cards still selling well? Thinking about buying a chunk of credits
  • IsrayhlIsrayhl
    Lucaine and Ashaxei are the only two that I've seen go for more credits. Market, right now, is completely inundated with cards since you can't trade them in unless you're the one who bought them, and there have been a lot of the common cards pushed out after most who were buying credits got their sets done. 
  • CooperCooper
    Pazuzu, Nicator, and Matic are also still in demand. 

  • VhayneVhayne
    Anyone know if they're maybe releasing different cards at some point during the promotion, or is this it?

  • AsmodronAsmodron
    Vhayne said:
    Anyone know if they're maybe releasing different cards at some point during the promotion, or is this it?
    I'd be surprised if they didnt.

    I wouldnt mind god themed cards.
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