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  • I mean Alyxeri went and sat in Targ just the other day not long after they finished raiding Eleusis, and chatted with 1 or 2 from there while visiting a friend. I could probably easily list of at least another 5 or 6 in Eleusis who are the same, and that's just off the top of my head.

    Plenty in Targ who talk to enemies.
    Plenty in Ashtan who talk to enemies.
    Plenty in Mhaldor who talk to enemies - hell I sat at NoT and conversed with @Roayun about Nature/Evil for at least an hour and a half after our duel.

    It's not "exactly how it is in other cities" sorry. There's a different between talking to / conversing with, and spending quality time with them being buddy-buddy like nothing happens. Refusing to interact purely on the basis that they're an enemy is just you being a shitbag.

    [spoiler] Did I use the term right, @Atalkez? [/spoiler]
  • edited October 2017
    Hataru said:
    Prythe said:
    Keorin said:
    Lisbethae said:

    I don't know how people expect to have GREAT RP when you are enemied to Cyrene, especially when you know Cyrenians don't interact with enemies.

    Get unenemied and you'll have more interaction.
    This is a pretty crummy view to hold in a game that revolves around interaction between players.
    It's a valid view. How many who live in Targ socialize with those who live in Mhaldor. 

    I'll wait.

    Still waiting.

    If somebody wants to interact in and around Cyrene they need to not be an enemy of Cyrene. 

    Which is exactly how it is for every other City.


    But I interact with Cyrenians too, as an enemy. And positively. At least with Kogan and Dochi. Though when I say positively I mean that they actually bother to interact with me, not that said interactions are always positive.


    You are right - that interaction can, and should, include, "I hate your face" conversations.

    But it does, doesn't it?

    I did not use the word "socialize" in my original post.

    And folks in Targ and Mhaldor "interact" all the time.

    You _do_ get to have those types of interactions.

    As do I. 

    Not sure what point you're trying to make. 

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • Kiet said:
    Prythe said:
    Keorin said:
    Lisbethae said:

    I don't know how people expect to have GREAT RP when you are enemied to Cyrene, especially when you know Cyrenians don't interact with enemies.

    Get unenemied and you'll have more interaction.
    This is a pretty crummy view to hold in a game that revolves around interaction between players.
    It's a valid view. How many who live in Targ socialize with those who live in Mhaldor. 

    I'll wait.

    Still waiting.

    If somebody wants to interact in and around Cyrene they need to not be an enemy of Cyrene. 

    Which is exactly how it is for every other City.
    I talk to Targossans literally all the time, some very regularly. Being enemies doesn't mean you have to use the ingame ignore function on someone or the equivalent of it.

    I talk to Cyrenians, too, sometimes, but they're the only ones that regularly tell me 'omg we can't talk you're an enemy' lol
    Can confirm, I talk to Kiet periodically. Mostly just to call him a scrub when he dies in a raid. But still, thats talking.

  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    I talk to people sometimes in the middle of raids. It's usually pretty good for a pick-me-up when I'm feeling a bit frustrated.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • edited October 2017
    a) You did use the word socialize.
    Prythe said:
    It's a valid view. How many who live in Targ socialize with those who live in Mhaldor.
    Right there.

    b) You literally said:
    Prythe said:
    If somebody wants to interact in and around Cyrene they need to not be an enemy of Cyrene.
    Kinda goes contrary to "they do get those interactions" - so which is it? lol
  • I talk to enemies all the time. Usually about combat, sometimes about situations that are happening.

    We are all friends on an OOC level for the most part, Cyrene representation isn’t really there in a lot of ways for that kind of stuff.

    Verrucht is still my boy tho




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • edited October 2017
    I'm not even talking about 'great RP.' I'm literally talking about engaging enemies. At all. Even if it's two people calling each other a filthy fog huffer/treehugger/bog-breath/twinkle princess/sun cultist, the game only really moves forward when people mutually contribute to a storyline.

    No one's ever said that every interaction has to be a masterpiece, or even particularly relevant or memorable. But the refusal on the part of many people to even have little moments, to stay IC to argue with enemies, to consider -any- avenue of interaction bar OOC tells, is something I'm apparently very much not the only person to notice. 

    That merits some looking at, I suspect.

    Lisbethae's comment is extraordinarily telling; it's exactly what I mean when I say that if someone is enemied, an enormous portion of the Cyrenian population will refuse to even acknowledge that character in-game.

    Edit: sry, phone typing hard
  • Phone typing is awful. I feel you.

    I'm totally open to criticism and listening though. While I've curbed some of my roaming interactions as of late, all I really have to go on is my personal experiences. On one hand, I do not fault people for not going out of their way to interact with cityenemies, on the other, I can't imagine myself ever snubbing someone who was trying to reach out for some for of interaction.

    Are you guys getting stuff like "Tell lowlander Please don't interact with me, I'm busy sipping fizzy lemonade and contemplating the color blue." or what sort of things are you getting on your end. I'm genuinely curious what others are experiencing. Part of me is wondering if it's pure ooc shutdown or just a very poorly done "haughty aristocracy" or some such.


  • KryptonKrypton shi-Khurena
    That's because Cyrene has a very prevalent (and very self-reinforced) mentality that troublemakers -- or anyone who likes conflict, for that matter -- are brutes & subhumans, and "beneath" interacting with.

    Very akin to "holier than thou" Christians, in that way.
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    edited October 2017
    Can confirm atalkez's story

    When Atalkez sees me struggling to kill people at clouds, he gives me secrets.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • Lisbethae said:
    Reyson said:
    Re: Cyrene and @Caynix: Cyrene only offers interaction if you don't step on anyone's toes, don't raid, don't try to start any trouble. I can count on one hand the number of Cyrenians I've had constructive, decent IC interactions with, and still have three leftover fingers. That kind of wilful isolationism is pretty bad for the game- not so much the 'we don't want to pvp' thing as the 'we refuse to engage at all unless you're doing exactly what we feel is the right way to play this game' thing. 
    Your character is 32 now. You've been enemied to Cyrene since you were 22. That's a total of 4 in game years, or about 2 months where Cyrene had a chance to get to know you. I don't know how people expect to have GREAT RP when you are enemied to Cyrene, especially when you know Cyrenians don't interact with enemies.

    Get unenemied and you'll have more interaction.
    This comment right here is why people generally think Cyrene is Achaea's embarrassing shit-stain
  • edited October 2017
    Phone typing is awful. I feel you.

    I'm totally open to criticism and listening though. While I've curbed some of my roaming interactions as of late, all I really have to go on is my personal experiences. On one hand, I do not fault people for not going out of their way to interact with cityenemies, on the other, I can't imagine myself ever snubbing someone who was trying to reach out for some for of interaction.

    Are you guys getting stuff like "Tell lowlander Please don't interact with me, I'm busy sipping fizzy lemonade and contemplating the color blue." or what sort of things are you getting on your end. I'm genuinely curious what others are experiencing. Part of me is wondering if it's pure ooc shutdown or just a very poorly done "haughty aristocracy" or some such.


    To be honest, that'd be cool! To have the IC equivalent of Downton-Abbey-ers (first season, since they grow up and stuff as it goes on) looking down on the brutes who go out to cause trouble or something. That'd be something to work with!

    I don't know if you remember, but a couple months back, when I was trying out monk, Telendrieth and Reyson went back and forth trying to radiance each other and reached a gentleman's agreement to just mess with other people because radiance is dumb when you can walk out? That's the neat little kind of thing I'm talking about. It made a fight more than just a simple ol' raid (I laughed at the time, was cool). 

    What I get is mostly pure OOC shut-down. And when you refuse to engage at -all-, and only basically resort to OOC tells, you kill even that kind of little moment in the crib. Which is what makes me sad about Cyrene (tbf, people in other Cities do it, as well, it's not an exclusively Cyrenian thing. But Cyrene does it more consistently and in more wide-spread fashion than any other faction from what I've seen). 
  • AeryllinAeryllin Michigan, USA
    The very first point I want to make, and something I think everyone needs to remember no matter what flag they wave or ideal they follow - people are, and always will be, people.  No matter what settlement you look at, no matter where you go, people will still be people.  There are good, bad, annoying, selfish, helpful, generous.  There are people you will love, there are people you simply will not like.  But this is true of EVERY place.  And whatever stereotype or reason you like or dislike some folks for, its not always fair to judge the actions of the many from the actions of the few.

    So, my first character - my forevermain, this character, Aeryllin - was Cyrenian because the friend I started playing with chose that as the city he wanted to be part of that had a house that accepted his chosen class.  I started in this city for no other reason.

    That being said, I came to love it dearly.  I have had so many amazing friends and experiences here.  Hours and hours of wonderful RP - part of having good RP interactions is knowing you can't wait for it to come to you, you have to do your part to seek it out and live your life.  If you're not one who enjoys conflict, or you are a lover of the Arts, or you simply don't want to live in a strict theocracy, Cyrene can be a place where you can meet like-minded folks to live with and have a great and fun time.  Not everyone has fun in the grim or gritty harsh reality of some conflicts or way of life - and ultimately, this is a game! We play it to have fun!

    Over the years I have played, I have made alts to give other cities a thorough chance and get to know them from the inside.  I took each one seriously and a couple of them I played for RL years.  I have since sworn off alting and don't miss it.  I had very different experiences, and each one did shape my overall opinion of each city.  In no particular order, my observations are thus:

    Ashtan - Likely the city I disliked the most out of all of them, I admit, even if it had my longest-running of all my alts.  There were some things I really liked - the old Occie house had some really great lore, and I had a couple of very dear friends that would have made any environment worthwhile. I enjoyed learning nihilist things and having an RP so very opposite of Aeryllin's. I feel the Renaissance was the worst thing that ever happened to Ashtan and that a TON of unique things were crushed and lost, without a lot of the right sort of people to rebuild.  While I had some fun with individuals, the city as a whole was a place I never enjoyed. In my experience, many people there seemed to consider it RP to be a real jerk and call it freedom/nihilism/chaos - they didn't want to put much effort in.

    Mhaldor - I wanted to like Mhaldor, and it was likely my second longest-running alt.  I recognize that my personal great distaste for PvP didn't serve me well here above all other places.  But mostly, that aside.... my experience here was simply very boring.  No one ever wanted to just talk if I encountered them in person - typically those I did encounter were apparently going the austere or stoic route, and didn't seem to have time for someone they didn't know..  No socialization on the city channel, and it all felt extremely clique-ish - as if you had to already be someone to expect interaction with others.  I wasn't treated poorly, although getting brushed off for a long time as a worthless slave was disheartening even when I was working hard.  Even when I got past that point, though, I found interaction with others in the city EXTREMELY difficult to come by.  I was disappointed to never find the high and in-depth RP some people praise so strongly from here.  It was simply an extremely dull experience, not one full of negativity.

    Targossas - My shortest running alt of the lot.  Priest has always been my favorite class, but I just couldn't get anywhere here.  Perhaps part of it is my unusual hours, but more times than not I'd be literally the only one awake in my House, or the few people I'd find would be unresponsive.  It felt like a ghost town!  Never anyone around that could help with House stuff, rare to find people in the city to talk to.

    Hashan - This was a more pleasant experience than I had initially expected I'd have.  When I first started playing the game, Hashan was so tiny!  In more recent times, they've gotten much more populous.  In my time here, I met some really interesting and friendly people, and had some pretty fun times.  I never really felt the city had much of a cohesive identity or ideology or real direction, but it was alright.

    Eleusis - Dear gods, I loved playing a druid. I love the forestal classes in general SO much more than alchemists, and I'd multi as a Druid without a bit of hesitation.  Insofar as people go, I think the Eleusians were probably the most similar in mannerism to Cyrenians.  I met a few truly good and awesome people, although I think some of the Nature beliefs are a bit TOO exclusive of the world in general.  Not everyone that is not part of the solution is part of the problem in any situation, in my mind.

    In the end, though, having given every place a fair shot - some of them more than once - I could never want to live anywhere besides Cyrene.  The atmosphere, the people, the great RP and family and friends...the open honesty in how things are run, and how many people work out of genuine love or bend over backwards and almost 'fight' each other to help out others...it sings to me.  The city has true beauty to offer.  I love the freedom of choice, and the support people offer each other no matter what walk of life they wish to follow.  No one has things shoved down their throat or their freedom of choice stripped from them.  People are typically friendly and morally upstanding, respectful of others.  I've had so many meaningful experiences, tons of which started from the tiniest little incidents or comments.  And the quality of character of some of the people I've been blessed to know here, their loyalty and dedication and honour and simple love has made my life so much more fulfilled.  Cyrene is the city of my heart and I have never regretted it for a moment.


  • Reyson said: I'm not even talking about 'great RP.' I'm literally talking about engaging enemies. At all. Even if it's two people calling each other a filthy fog huffer/treehugger/bog-breath/twinkle princess/sun cultist, the game only really moves forward when people mutually contribute to a storyline.
    These are great. I need to work on my insult game. 

    You tell @Kiet, "You filthy fog huffer!"

  • Alyxeri said:
    a) You did use the word socialize.
    Prythe said:
    It's a valid view. How many who live in Targ socialize with those who live in Mhaldor.
    Right there.

    b) You literally said:
    Prythe said:
    If somebody wants to interact in and around Cyrene they need to not be an enemy of Cyrene.
    Kinda goes contrary to "they do get those interactions" - so which is it? lol
    I edited my post - I guess before you saw the edit (and before you replied).

    Check the corrected version which addresses your point.

    OP wanted to socialize.

    Cyrenians do not socialize with enemies. They are allowed to, and do, interact. 

    It's not that confusing for anybody who is not just here to bash Cyrene.

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • Mostly relevant to the discussion re: Cyrene attitudes

    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/7vJiZQPa





    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • edited October 2017
    Atalkez said:
    Mostly relevant to the discussion re: Cyrene attitudes

    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/7vJiZQPa

    Aluine isn't Cyrenian and if you had to HONOURS to see who the other person was... what they said does not reflect the general attitude of Cyrene. This is the same person who to my knowledge insulted Sartan at CC. Not the brightest decision.

    Edit: I think Mhaldor raided Cyrene over that too, but I don't think Sartan mistakenly thought she was Cyrenian. I may be wrong on this but I think it was more to do with having Aluine just be disrespectful to him and apparently  nobody said anything to her about it at the time that it happened. Not sure who was there or how much of this is fact. Feel free to correct me, but if there is a lesson in any of this. You just don't go around being disrespectful to people  (yes just like us) who give up their mortal characters to make the world more fun for an entire faction and possibly even other factions.
  • Which is why I said mostly relevant.

    Even if it's not the "general attitude" of Cyrene - that's the attitude some of us are met with within moments of speaking to people there. Perl and Zbaco weren't exactly chomping at the bit to reign them in!





    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • Zackery said:
    Prythe said:
    In real life I often say that I love lesbians as individuals, just not in groups. In many ways I feel the same about forestals. Love many of them individually, but grouped up? Oy!
    Can we just take a moment and acknowledge that this is not okay
    Yeah, idfk. :/ 
  • Atalkez said:
    Which is why I said mostly relevant.

    Even if it's not the "general attitude" of Cyrene - that's the attitude some of us are met with within moments of speaking to people there. Perl and Zbaco weren't exactly chomping at the bit to reign them in!

    To be fair. I wouldn't have either. I would have been waiting to laugh at the deathsight if she kept at it.
  • edited October 2017
    Dochitha said:
    We definitely cannot let a single voice determine who Cyrene is. For those who have interacted with Cyrene, both as an enemy or not, in any form of interactions, knows Cyrene adds a pretty bewildering feel to the game. I love Cyrene because:
    • I could peace and talk with anyone from any city, not risking nose getting cut off
    • I could hunt any time and mostly not called to attend shits, lots of freedom.
    Glad you're touching all the important parts. Also. I've been missing out on these monthly group shits. I thought people complaining about Targ prayers was bad. Am I in trouble for missing said shits?
  • What kind of drugs are you taking, Dochi? I need a hook up
  • edited October 2017
    Kogan said:
    Atalkez said:
    Which is why I said mostly relevant.

    Even if it's not the "general attitude" of Cyrene - that's the attitude some of us are met with within moments of speaking to people there. Perl and Zbaco weren't exactly chomping at the bit to reign them in!

    To be fair. I wouldn't have either. I would have been waiting to laugh at the deathsight if she kept at it.

    See, but isn't that the thing?

    I could have 1v4 that entire group, no problem. That would have gotten me enemied though, and I'm out of my "free chances" are being unenemied according to Verrucht. So while I could have probably handed the whole room a big L, I would have been the one punished in the end. 

    Edit: For the record, I'm not demonizing Cyrene at all. I understand that, based upon the RP of my character/decisions, I'm likely not going to be met with kindness from the jump. I have several friends in Cyrene, and largely these types of things don't happen. They DO happen though, which is what I think people are trying to point out. 





    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    edited October 2017
    Man, Aluine is still allowed to sit at CC in Cyrene and talk shit after the aforementioned incident? Christ above.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • Atalkez said:

    See, but isn't that the thing?

    I could have 1v4 that entire group, no problem. That would have gotten me enemied though, and I'm out of my "free chances" are being unenemied according to Verrucht. So while I could have probably handed the whole room a big L, I would have been the one punished in the end. 

    Oh the whole group. I mean... I think those who didn't speak up were on the same page as me honestly. As in I talked to some of them and they were like why does X think I have to defend them saying Y. I don't think you'd have to kill the whole group. Just one. That would have been worth the laugh and honestly I'm not sure too many would have been upset after knowing what happened. Asking someone to leave because of conflict they're bringing is not unreasonable so I do not understand the response you got from a non-citizen.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-Khurena
    In retrospect, that should be 20 charges for Disrespect, I think. :joy:
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