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  • KoganKogan
    Lucianus said:
    Na.. add Ethereal Shrouds as a trans skill to Conjuration. Players can set the price based on demand and how much it costs to make it.
    Oh I like this a lot actually. 
  • TahquilTahquil
    edited April 2017
    Looking over the last few pages veils should not be used as a togglable ignore function ><. If you are being harassed, issue or ignore are your tools.
  • PrythePrythe
    As a few have mentioned I also bought a Veil because I was told it would "Help the [Org]" when I was seeking advice as to "What to buy next."

    I had credits. I'm old. I've used  buying credits more than depositing gold in banks most of my Achaean life. I have spent dollars here and there because when I am playing Achaea it is one of my primary forms of entertainment. 

    I am still asked, "Is so and so around," and I look.

    Was/is that worth 2000 credits? No. 

    Do I understand the fuss? Not really.

    Would I be upset if Veils went away? No, not if I got my credits back.

    Am I upset if they stick around? No.

    People have the right to hide for whatever reason they want. There are also myriad ways to find the person, including asking, "Is so and so around?"

    I don't get the hate so I am clearly missing something. Not unusual when it comes to Achaea for me.

    Anybody want chocolate?

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • VirgoVirgo
    Prythe said:
    As a few have mentioned I also bought a Veil because I was told it would "Help the [Org]" when I was seeking advice as to "What to buy next."

    I had credits. I'm old. I've used  buying credits more than depositing gold in banks most of my Achaean life. I have spent dollars here and there because when I am playing Achaea it is one of my primary forms of entertainment. 

    I am still asked, "Is so and so around," and I look.

    Was/is that worth 2000 credits? No. 

    Do I understand the fuss? Not really.

    Would I be upset if Veils went away? No, not if I got my credits back.

    Am I upset if they stick around? No.

    People have the right to hide for whatever reason they want. There are also myriad ways to find the person, including asking, "Is so and so around?"

    I don't get the hate so I am clearly missing something. Not unusual when it comes to Achaea for me.

    Anybody want chocolate?
    I would love some chocolate 
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Just change the timer after an aggressive action to check the overall aggression cooldown. Problem solved.
    Huh. Neat.
  • IsmayIsmay
    The raid issue bothers me more than anything. How are we supposed to guess at numbers when 5 Mhaldorians are showing up on qw? If we can only see newbies, we're never going to raid you. Either that or we're going to end up just raiding when we want without regard to keeping numbers fair. 
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


  • ProficyProficy
    Melodie said:
    Phase has several ability-related counters. Veil is just money to combat money. One is used to hide you on an entirely different plane of reality, and you can only speak to other serpents there. The other just hides you from everyone while keeping you able to communicate and do everything normally without any form of hindrance.

    Pretty clear difference.
    Not true.... veil + gem + tellsoff = peace and quiet time for admin work
  • ProficyProficy
    And veil is needed... wanted and used artefact... get with it. Crying about it isnt going to change it. Its not a game changing mechanic. Just QoL, i dont see how you people can complain about that but dont have problems with like a crit pendant. Where your paying to make gold exp faster or the harvesting extracting gloves. Where your paying to make more of something. (Love those artes, just using them as an example).
    Point is. All veil does is make it so you cant sense the person. You can still track, portal, and other things to them..There are alot worse things out and about than someone not wanting to be found.
  • ProficyProficy
    Ismay said:
    The raid issue bothers me more than anything. How are we supposed to guess at numbers when 5 Mhaldorians are showing up on qw? If we can only see newbies, we're never going to raid you. Either that or we're going to end up just raiding when we want without regard to keeping numbers fair. 
    Piss poor play and mindset... if you wanna raid or skirmish just do it... soooo sad you only consider it when you have an advantage.....   shouldnt matter tooo much who they have if you like who YOU have.
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    As usual, you're spectacularly wrong and make nearly no sense @Proficy




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • RyzethRyzeth
    "Veil isn't a game changing mechanic."
        ~No one, ever.
  • TahquilTahquil
    All points for having a veil is countered by 'unless the other person has a veil as well'.
  • OmorOmor
    Proficy said:
    Ismay said:
    The raid issue bothers me more than anything. How are we supposed to guess at numbers when 5 Mhaldorians are showing up on qw? If we can only see newbies, we're never going to raid you. Either that or we're going to end up just raiding when we want without regard to keeping numbers fair. 
    Piss poor play and mindset... if you wanna raid or skirmish just do it... soooo sad you only consider it when you have an advantage.....   shouldnt matter tooo much who they have if you like who YOU have.
    Prof, I like you, but you completely missed Ismay's point here. Like, wayyyyy off.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • IsmayIsmay
    I feel like there's been this huge communication problem. I meant the exact opposite of what you thought, @Proficy. My point was that we DON'T want to raid with overwhelming numbers because we want the opposition to have fun too. If we can't see you guys, how are we supposed to know how many to bring or even to initiate a raid to begin with?

    If all we see are newbies on qw, we generally avoid raiding Mhaldor and go with another city. That's bad for everyone cause I'm sure most Mhaldor players enjoy raids.
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


  • CaelanCaelan
    Proficy said:
    And veil is needed... wanted and used artefact... get with it. Crying about it isnt going to change it. Its not a game changing mechanic. Just QoL, i dont see how you people can complain about that but dont have problems with like a crit pendant. Where your paying to make gold exp faster or the harvesting extracting gloves. Where your paying to make more of something. (Love those artes, just using them as an example).
    Point is. All veil does is make it so you cant sense the person. You can still track, portal, and other things to them..There are alot worse things out and about than someone not wanting to be found.
    Agreed.  I got mine because I wanted to "play" a hunter.  The point of hunting is to be hidden.  I very much used to stalk my 'prey' in game.  Having them not be able to "Farsee Caelan;lol go the other way" was pretty key for a jaguar lying in wait for the person they are hunting to walk by.  I also learned to enjoy that not everyone could keep track of me with things like Dontarion's WHOLIST tracker.

  • AegothAegoth
    Caelan said:
    Proficy said:
    And veil is needed... wanted and used artefact... get with it. Crying about it isnt going to change it. Its not a game changing mechanic. Just QoL, i dont see how you people can complain about that but dont have problems with like a crit pendant. Where your paying to make gold exp faster or the harvesting extracting gloves. Where your paying to make more of something. (Love those artes, just using them as an example).
    Point is. All veil does is make it so you cant sense the person. You can still track, portal, and other things to them..There are alot worse things out and about than someone not wanting to be found.
    Agreed.  I got mine because I wanted to "play" a hunter.  The point of hunting is to be hidden.  I very much used to stalk my 'prey' in game.  Having them not be able to "Farsee Caelan;lol go the other way" was pretty key for a jaguar lying in wait for the person they are hunting to walk by.  I also learned to enjoy that not everyone could keep track of me with things like Dontarion's WHOLIST tracker.
    A jaguar lying in wait.... and not being able to kill me with you and a magi wailing on me for a minute straight. 
  • CooperCooper
    Caelan said:
    Proficy said:
    And veil is needed... wanted and used artefact... get with it. Crying about it isnt going to change it. Its not a game changing mechanic. Just QoL, i dont see how you people can complain about that but dont have problems with like a crit pendant. Where your paying to make gold exp faster or the harvesting extracting gloves. Where your paying to make more of something. (Love those artes, just using them as an example).
    Point is. All veil does is make it so you cant sense the person. You can still track, portal, and other things to them..There are alot worse things out and about than someone not wanting to be found.
    Agreed.  I got mine because I wanted to "play" a hunter.  The point of hunting is to be hidden.  I very much used to stalk my 'prey' in game.  Having them not be able to "Farsee Caelan;lol go the other way" was pretty key for a jaguar lying in wait for the person they are hunting to walk by.  I also learned to enjoy that not everyone could keep track of me with things like Dontarion's WHOLIST tracker.
    I mean...the stuff you used to do to people literally made handfuls of people quit playing the game permanently - that is the worst veil defense I've seen posted.

    For those who weren't around, imagine this: 

    Average health in the game at this point is 3k, if you had 3.8k health people were like "holy crap how do you have so much?!".

    Caelan was artied out at this point as a Sentinel with a Lupine pre reflexes nerf and when Raja had level 2 balance regain. He would trap up the area and clouds with traps using hide and his veil while you were hunting. Then use his reflex bow to shoot off 2-3 meteors in about 2 seconds, then start shooting you. The arrows came at a little less than a second balance.  If you tried to run you hit traps and died. If you shielded you just died. If you had wings you would hit traps there and die.

    Or he would trap up and use his perma stun axethrow on you while you bashed and you'd die.

    Or he'd sit on clouds with traps around all the clouds exits and when you hit alertness and his traps he'd just axe you to death. 

    If you managed to get him to actual fight it was usually 3-4 mauls before you died.

    It was not fun and he would do this all day to you, making it so you either logged off for the day or you died 20 times. 

    Not fun! Thankfully every single thing he used to do is not possible anymore! 

  • MorthifMorthif
    sounds like somebody needs to git gud
  • CooperCooper
    Daeir said:
    Won't contest that, but I still attest that the game would be 5000x better if artefacts could be gained purely through in-game systems without relying on external expenditure, but that's basically the same thing as saying oranges would be better if they tasted like pears.
    And if all pears were free and non existent because the farmers have no revenue if pears are free. 

  • AegothAegoth
    barter system
  • AntidasAntidas
    Daeir said:
    The company I work for runs a game that has no income stream except player donations for a paltry "convenience" benefit which includes basically coloured names and slightly raised limits on a commonly used resource. It's served to literally thousands of times the players that Achaea has, and has operating costs that probably eclipse what every IRE game spends on hosting and wages yearly in a single month.

    You provide the platform for people to enjoy themselves on, and offer them cosmetic or nonsignificant bonuses in exchange for their money, and they will drown you in revenue if you provide a quality service.

    I no longer accept "but we must pay the devs for games to exist!!!" as rationale behind ruining a game's longevity with a poor transaction model. If the business model worked, Achaea wouldn't be shrinking. IRE may have pretty much pioneered "revenue from object sales" as a payment method, but they've absolutely failed at opening their games up towards properly embracing the model without objectively diminishing them.

    You will be hard pressed to find an uninvolved gamer that looks at Achaea's payment model and considers it a positive.
    I honestly don't know enough to firmly agree or disagree with either stance, although I admit I like the sound of such a business model. What I do know, though, is that if Achaea were to make that leap, it may mean the end of the game, whether or not it actually works.

    If it doesn't work, there may not be enough revenue sitting in the company's bank to be able to keep the servers open and employees paid to be able to test it and then switch back over when it fails.

    Even if it does work, it may be too late to make a business model change like that. It'd be great if there were thousands of people sitting around waiting to play Achaea the instant it became more affordable, but this is likely not the case. It may be true that if IRE has enough revenue to stay open until the company is able to find enough new players to actually be self-supported on that business model that it would work amazingly, but they would have to be able to survive that transformation phase first.

    I obviously have no idea of just how good or bad IRE's financial situation may or may not be, but I tend to doubt they make enough to be able to survive something like that. Just my two cents.

  • MinifieMinifie
    Antidas said:
    Daeir said:
    The company I work for runs a game that has no income stream except player donations for a paltry "convenience" benefit which includes basically coloured names and slightly raised limits on a commonly used resource. It's served to literally thousands of times the players that Achaea has, and has operating costs that probably eclipse what every IRE game spends on hosting and wages yearly in a single month.

    You provide the platform for people to enjoy themselves on, and offer them cosmetic or nonsignificant bonuses in exchange for their money, and they will drown you in revenue if you provide a quality service.

    I no longer accept "but we must pay the devs for games to exist!!!" as rationale behind ruining a game's longevity with a poor transaction model. If the business model worked, Achaea wouldn't be shrinking. IRE may have pretty much pioneered "revenue from object sales" as a payment method, but they've absolutely failed at opening their games up towards properly embracing the model without objectively diminishing them.

    You will be hard pressed to find an uninvolved gamer that looks at Achaea's payment model and considers it a positive.
    I honestly don't know enough to firmly agree or disagree with either stance, although I admit I like the sound of such a business model. What I do know, though, is that if Achaea were to make that leap, it may mean the end of the game, whether or not it actually works.

    If it doesn't work, there may not be enough revenue sitting in the company's bank to be able to keep the servers open and employees paid to be able to test it and then switch back over when it fails.

    Even if it does work, it may be too late to make a business model change like that. It'd be great if there were thousands of people sitting around waiting to play Achaea the instant it became more affordable, but this is likely not the case. It may be true that if IRE has enough revenue to stay open until the company is able to find enough new players to actually be self-supported on that business model that it would work amazingly, but they would have to be able to survive that transformation phase first.

    I obviously have no idea of just how good or bad IRE's financial situation may or may not be, but I tend to doubt they make enough to be able to survive something like that. Just my two cents.
    Completely making the change now would probably kill the game, because of how it would 180 the current structure. Something to be more flexible would to be adding a monthly amount of credits that can be bought for gold, it would be less expensive than the current credit market, and the credits would be bound, but adding the ability to buy 50-100 bound credits a month could help, you could even add it to IRE if need be.

    I don't mind adding something more consistent than the daily wheel spin thing, that people don't have to look at CFS and go "12k per now? ughhhh" and watch it increase after a string of non-credit buying promos.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Daeir said:
    Achaea would need to basically change from the ground up to accomodate the model shift. Whereas currently you can drop your wallet and walk away with level 3s, entire gear treadmills and progression paradigms would suddenly need to sprout into existence to cover every major artefact (stat wise and offensive/defensive wise, others can be made into rare items or whatever). It would be a HUGE change, and there would undoubtedly be a large section of the heavy-spending playerbase that would prefer the "old" way of simply being able to shell out hundreds of dollars and getting an immediate boost to their character's strength.

    So while I harp on about how things would be "better" this way, the reality of the situation is that while the post-change Achaea would probably be a significantly better game, it would in the short-to-medium term, be a significantly worse revenue source for IRE, probably not something the company can reasonably support for any extended period of time without sacrifices. That means it'll probably never happen.

    That is why I don't hold particularly high hopes for the game's longevity over the course of the next 4-5 years, even though we have an administration who has made probably the biggest leaps towards improving the game mechanically throughout the course of the game's history. Starmourn's reception will be very telling in a lot of ways for the future of pretty much all the IRE games, to be honest.
    Starmourn is perfect to attempt a brand new business model, and I hope it is not going to be cut and paste of the current system, but it is completely up to how they do it. If it does very well with a new model, I can see it being shifted with at least achaea potentially.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Armali said:
    I was hoping people would be arguing about classleads :(
    Endorse classlead 21 and give Amranu a cuddle for it.
  • ArmaliArmali
    Eh, I'd just scale bloodlet more (because it already does in part) to max hp and call it a day.
  • ZahanZahan Valhalla
    @antidas I think that is the exact attitude they have, and being polite about this, it is absolutely dead wrong.  

    Here is the IRE achaea for google play store:
    (i have this app on my phone but when i went to search for it on google, it doesn't show up)
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Iron Realms Entertainment&amp;hl=en
    It's not even there.  Anyway, on my phone it shows 10,000 downloads and was last updated Sep 19, 2011.

    Here is a link to some shitty "text paladin" game, I randomly found while browsing apps in the play store:
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.PaladinsV1&hl=en
    It has over 100,000 downloads.

    Comparing that basement creation to the world achaea has become (and could be), is like comparing a lamborghini to a broken go-cart, and yet it's winning the race despite achaea having a 20 year headstart.

    But, in my opinion, the business model itself is only one factor.  Another major factor is the complete lack of any presence on social media - young blood, maybe, at the top.  I'm constantly amazed at how well social media works.


    "A good salesman can sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman wearing white globes."
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  • MorthifMorthif
    that IRE Helper was made by Vadi years ago and he never updated it for newer versions of Android. I assume he just handed it over to IRE when the whole mess with SVO went down. The app was just a very plain way to read news and messages.
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