Poll: Which modern Achaean House is the best and why?

Aralaya

@Bann owch

also I'm pretty sure party duels are where you get two parties together and they fight it out in an arena. I think

Aereidhna

That's a party spar. Duel is doing it outside of the arena.

Jonathin

If you aren't fighting for something, what's the point?

Bann

@Aereidhna- I'm with @Jonathin's usually salty ass in this. If there's no risk it's not fun. Duking it out at NoNT isn't the same as doing it in a city with guards and stuff.

Aereidhna

Okay...? No one's forcing you not to participate in raids. I was just suggesting alternative activities for people who are interested in combat in a city that is focused on neutrality and almost never gets raided, and who don't want to move to a city that welcomes factional conflict. I'm still a big believer that trying different things is more fun than sitting around complaining about having nothing to do. But to each their own.

Ahmet

Actually, Aereidhna, there are a good number of people being forced to not participate in raids. "Oh just move to another city" is a really horrible, narrow-minded response to that complaint. I understand where you (and half of Cyrene) are coming from, but it's a hell of a pitfall and it's one that has led to Cyrene losing a good chunk of their competent fighters (and some of their best citizens, I might add).

Keorin

I'd hope we can all agree that Cyrene has more appeal then just its lack of raids.

Aereidhna

How are people being forced not to participate in raids? Raiding other cities is not allowed and hasn't been for as long as I've played in Cyrene (including back when we were getting raided regularly, well before the amnesty). But defending is just fine. 

I don't like to see people leave the city. And I also understand that if someone really desperately wants city vs city conflict (which is more or less the definition of raiding) a neutral city might not fulfill what they are looking for. I'm not sure how to fulfill their needs without compromising Cyrene's neutrality by provoking other cities for lulz, and I also don't have any control over whether or not other cities choose to randomly raid us. I'm certainly open to suggestions.

(edited: I used to enjoy raid defense when we got one every now and then, but even then, it was just Ashtan and Mhaldor getting bored and coming to fuck with us randomly, and it didn't happen that often. Maybe the 'good old days' of raid defense happened before I came around.)

Farrah

I have to say, I'm with the group of people that's just like "Why not join a city that's... not Cyrene?" if you want to fight. It's ok to have a city for people who don't like raids.

There are plenty of cities that need fighters for people who want to fight.

#DeleteTheShield

#JoinHouseDawnblade

Keorin

Gods forbid I want to participate in group combat now and again without my character having to swear to some higher power.

Ahmet

Aereidhna, Cyrene doesn't get raided. Anyone who did anything to get Cyrene raided with any sort of frequency would no doubt be outcitizened and likely enemied. Cyrenians are also restricted by law from participating in defense elsewhere (which I think is a little silly myself, but maybe that's just me). How is that -not- forcing people not to participate in raids?

Okay, I understand you (and half of Cyrene) that doesn't want constant conflict. That's fine. The issue is less the lack of raids and more the attitude towards it. There's a portion of the citizenry that genuinely look down on people who pvp. There's a portion of the citizenry that would truly love to see everyone who's ever shown any interest in conflict piss right off and never have to deal with them again. There are people who are so goddamn scared that someone might piss in their tea that they'd throw people who are open PK out of the city to be ganked 6v1. There are people who are so scared that participating in world events might have some genuine consequences (god forbid) that they bury their heads in the sand and do nothing, and do their best to drag the rest of the citizenry along for the ride. It tends to be the same citizens who mistake political neutrality for true neutrality, and further those who mistake neutrality for mewling, submissive pacifism. Heaven forbid your citymate kill someone and you get caught up in some personal vendetta. It'd be a shame if a game that's meant to be immersive had any sort of 

I'm not pointing fingers. I'm not saying anyone in particular has these views. I'm saying there are citizens of Cyrene, some prominent, who legitimately believe these views, and who try to publicly and privately ostracize those who don't conform in every way they approve of. This is an attitude that has seeped into the newer citizens (albeit to a lesser degree) and has led to the "if you don't like it, then leave" idea. Which is fine, I guess, but constantly telling combatants to go elsewhere if they want to fight is going to lead to them doing precisely that, which isn't something I think we should be okay with.

Saeva

I loved the Insidium! It had a lot of shape left to take and history to be made but it was so awesome. 

I was was looking forward to helping to get the Legates on the same progressive path but went dormant due to real life issues, but I think Legates had even more potential to be very defined. It is on its way.

Aereidhna

Okay, I'm sorry that I apparently came across as seeing things that way. I don't. I appreciate and respect Cyrene's combatants and have cheered folks like Bron and Dochitha on plenty when they've fucked people's shit up.

I struggle because I like being inclusive and I don't want to pull the 'if you don't like it then leave' line - because honestly that rubs me the wrong way in real life. But I also think that there are plenty of avenues for people to create positive change like getting more involved, coming up with ideas to improve their House, etc. I get that sometimes the environment isn't receptive to change, but a lot of people do not even try.

Ultimately, it's not up to me what other people choose to do. For me, when things went south for me in my old faction and I wasn't getting any enjoyment out of it and no amount of throwing myself into trying to make things better was making me happier, I re-rolled in Cyrene and ended up much better off for it. But, again, to each their own.

Frederich

I remember whenever I asked over CT in Cyrene if anyone could help unwind a shrine and said that it'd take all of 5 seconds and posed next to no chance for the person to get hurt.

Someone screamed and yelled at me over CT that it involved PVP and that I was Sartan-Incarnate for even REMOTELY ASKING her to step outside of her house in Cyrene to help save the world.

Cyrene's fun and all, but we all gotta agree that #SomePeople in Cyrene think that anyone who even remotely does anything besides mudsex/drama is the absolute scum of the earth and they must be BANISHED.

Watchman

Cyrene could march on other cities in an attempt to unify them under the beige banner of neutrality.

Tahquil

Combat acceptance isn't about allowing raids. It's about letting those who do indulge in the odd spot of sword pokey pokey still feel like they are welcome citizens. Not pitching a pink fit and demanding they be punished/turfed outside city limits because X followed them when they returned to Cyrene for more curatives or, god forbid, return for a rest and to interact with their fellow citizens.

 Edit: Or jumping on them screaming to use the arena when they are testing something and something bugs out and someone is killed. I mean, it's two consenting 'adults', sometimes things go wrong but they know that's the risk but accepted it anyway. 

Skye

Cyrene actually saw plenty of action during the whole avatar thing, although I couldn't say who all wanted PK so badly and actually got involved in the fighting. 

I do hasten to add that it's all well and good to say you want raids and PK and stuff. But over the years it's become very clear to me that organisational PK happens on the aggressor's terms not the defenders. Meaning if you get bored and want them to leave, you can always beg them in messages to leave  lol j/k that doesn't happen.

Once you re-open that can of worms, it's not easy to stuff them all back in again. 

Anyway the best house is clearly my house. Doesn't have requirements, wake up when you want and do whatever you want. Write all the annoying ads you can get away with. 

Ryzeth

Aereidhna said:

I get that sometimes the environment isn't receptive to change, but a lot of people do not even try.

Plenty of people have tried. Look at what happened to all them. Cyrene's army might as well be just Bronislav at this point.

Krypton

Skye said:

Write all the annoying ads you can get away with. 

I think your handjob poster takes the cake.

Verrucht

Tahquil said:

Combat acceptance isn't about allowing raids. It's about letting those who do indulge in the odd spot of sword pokey pokey still feel like they are welcome citizens. Not pitching a pink fit and demanding they be punished/turfed outside city limits because X followed them when they returned to Cyrene for more curatives or, god forbid, return for a rest and to interact with their fellow citizens.

Honestly, I don't think Bronislav or Dochitha or any of the actual combatants in Cyrene had a big problem with this. I know Dochitha was worried about it sometimes, but I always reassured him and Bronislav seems to be fine with it.

If people are pitching fits about this kind of thing, maybe there's someone that could be informed so that people could be spoken with and understanding could be had.

Tahquil

You mean the senators that tell the person "Try not to do it, X is pitching a fit and I don't want to deal with that noise." Then go and tell X "I've spoken to them about it" Making X feel validated and superior?

Verrucht

Tahquil said:

You mean the senators that tell the person "Try not to do it, X is pitching a fit and I don't want to deal with that noise." Then go and tell X "I've spoken to them about it" Making X feel validated and superior?

Oh my bad. I was trying to be helpful. I recognise my error now.

Tahquil

Cool. Since you've had this moment of clarity feel welcome to read through the thread again and see if it can be applied to more points of concern that have been brought up.

Edit by request : 

Verrucht

Tahquil said:

Cool. Since you've had this moment of clarity feel welcome to read through the thread again and see if it can be applied to more points of concern that have been brought up.

Honestly? Nah. If people have actual concerns they can actually bring them up in game or through messages/PM. I came in mostly politely, and feel no need to cater to people just being bitchy.

Tahquil

Well bitch,

I CAME IN LIKE A WRECKING BALL.

Jonathin

Bann said:

- I'm with @Jonathin's usually salty ass in this.

My ass is not salty and I object to the insinuation that you've tried it before.

Bann

@Jonathin - Bruh it's salty af. But it's okay, some people are just naturally more saline than others.

Liyane

Watchman said:

Cyrene could march on other cities in an attempt to unify them under the beige banner of neutrality.

Exxia

Nazihk said:

Shirszae said:

Right now the Shield is pretty useless since no one raids Cyrene. I mean, sure, combat House, but as far as purpose go, its pretty sad. I really wish there was something more to it. Or more raids happening in Cyrene. Please raid Cyrene more.

Sorry, no raiding Cyrene for me. It has the best shops and I don't want to pull an @Exxia and end up dropping 45k on potash.

Shit, you don't do anything in raids but spam your bash attack, so OF COURSE no raiding even a bunch of midbie noncoms in Cyrene for you.

Kiskan

This was a public paste someone had put up, but for whatever reason, pastebin stopped indexing it shortly thereafter (and seems to be having trouble indexing it period), so I will drop it here, because I have less investment over here and I guess it's easier for me to just do.  It's actually one of the reasons I agree so heartily with Skye's post.  It took me a long, long, long time to better understand how certain things about the games work because frankly, I was ridiculously naive.  Anyway, sometimes what seems totally reasonable (and actually IS totally reasonable, like wanting the thrill of the occasional raid) might come with a hell of a lot of strings attached (or uncanned worms).  

Being raided (and raiding) can be a lot of fun, and efforts have been made to allow the defenders to sort of "turn off" the raid if they really want to and need to.  And it IS the right approach because the best way to protect players from excessive punishment in an IRE game really does seem to be to mechanically limit the damage others can do (which allows them to leave the actual rules fairly fluid).  But for whatever reason (I'd put at least some of it down to social engineering maybe?), people do seem to have a hell of a time pushing the flush button, even when they're really really really done.  So there's that.

I found this log right after that Mhaldor raid people were fairly unhappy about and it seems like a conversation that probably did really happen.  The reason it's special, is because you don't often get this kind of candor from anyone who's halfway smart about being a jerk.  I don't really know Jhui, but I get the impression that he is probably mostly very, very very smart about being a jerk.  So when someone does show you how they think, listen.  And I see two things he's thinking 1)  griefing is pretty darned acceptable right up to the line it doesn't get me shrubbed 2)  Boy, you guys are suckers

But he's just one dude.  It's really not about him.  It's about wherever that threshold of jackassery is.  It might be a lot higher than you thought it was, and a lot higher than you are prepared for.  

http://pastebin.com/3362dQ8j