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Achaean Raves

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  • CooperCooper
    I used to think it was just some sort of joke that Eleusis was playing as a city.

    "Haha everyone no matter how badly we get crushed we're just going to claim we won, it will be hilarious and fun"

    Nope, they legit think IC and OOC that they've won all these wars. Blows my mind.

  • SophiSophi Rally Point
    Eleusis would have won if the Coalition was still a thing. 
  • ArchaeonArchaeon Ur mums house lol
    i love a good e-peen measuring contest. 
  • CooperCooper
    I think I defended Eleusis more than Eleusis did, with the exception of @Yezrit, who defended like an absolute champ.

  • CaelanCaelan
    Cooper said:
    I used to think it was just some sort of joke that Eleusis was playing as a city.

    "Haha everyone no matter how badly we get crushed we're just going to claim we won, it will be hilarious and fun"

    Nope, they legit think IC and OOC that they've won all these wars. Blows my mind.
    I haven't talked to anyone who thinks that.  We held our own pretty well until the last 2 days, I think it was, when we got tanked and guarded over and over. Pretty sure that broke some people.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Caelan said:
    Cooper said:
    I used to think it was just some sort of joke that Eleusis was playing as a city.

    "Haha everyone no matter how badly we get crushed we're just going to claim we won, it will be hilarious and fun"

    Nope, they legit think IC and OOC that they've won all these wars. Blows my mind.
    I haven't talked to anyone who thinks that.  We held our own pretty well until the last 2 days, I think it was, when we got tanked and guarded over and over. Pretty sure that broke some people.
    There were plenty who legitimately acted as though they won against Babel and Mhaldor, despite getting completely slaughtered left, right and centre. There's definitely people there atm who think they won this one, as well. Not quite as much as the last two, but they're there.
  • RyxRyx North of Northreach
    I basically agree with everyone saying we need a clear way to define winning and losing here, because I think arguing OOC about who won and lost is... dumb. We can agree Eleusis in general didn't perform as well, probably due to numbers and time zones, but the concept of winning and losing are terms that usually come about by having conditions in the first place. For as long as everyone defines winning and losing differently, the winner will keep changing, and while that's fine IC, OOC it's a waste of breath.

    In my personal opinion, the fact the war ended with no conditions at the end means it was formally a draw, even if throughout we had less kills/more deaths.
  • SynbiosSynbios
    Vinzent says, "What does a humgii wear on Logosmas? Why, nothing of course."
    The joke is so bad, you can't help but slap you.

  • RangorRangor
    Anything accomplished during us timezone doesn't count. 😘
    image
  • AdrikAdrik
    So this leaves....

    Cyrene vs Eleusis war OR
    Targossas vs Eleusis war for next.

    Eleusis vs Eleusis already happened, Mhaldor vs Eleusis already happened, Ashtan (tm) vs Eleusis already happened, and now Hashan vs Eleusis happened.

    Who will win in the Eleusis vs Cyrene fights?!
  • CaelanCaelan
    edited July 2019
    Adrik said:
    So this leaves...

    Eleusis already won in the Eleusis vs Cyrene fights?!
    And to respond to Cooper and Pyori..

    Yeah for some reason we keep jumping into shit with no clear objective...  we do alright for a bit but then people get bored znd stop participating, usually followed by the other side gaining momentum until they start going bonkers and we have to back out and it creates a 'lose' situation. 

    Pretty self defeating really.

  • AsmodronAsmodron
    Cooper said:
    I think I defended Eleusis more than Eleusis did, with the exception of @Yezrit, who defended like an absolute champ.

    Yezrit was terrifying. I began to view them in the scope of that legendary fighter of your enemy's forces that appears and inspires a victory. Very Achilles. Couldnt get at that heel.
  • SobriquetSobriquet
    Caelan said:
    Adrik said:
    So this leaves...

    Eleusis already won in the Eleusis vs Cyrene fights?!
    And to respond to Cooper and Pyori..

    Yeah for some reason we keep jumping into shit with no clear objective...  we do alright for a bit but then people get bored znd stop participating, usually followed by the other side gaining momentum until they start going bonkers and we have to back out and it creates a 'lose' situation. 

    Pretty self defeating really.
    To be fair, I think it all started because Zenii didn't quite get the implications of setting relations to Hostile, or if he did, didn't think it through. 

    (Party): Mezghar says, "Stop."
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    Sobriquet said:
    Caelan said:
    Adrik said:
    So this leaves...

    Eleusis already won in the Eleusis vs Cyrene fights?!
    And to respond to Cooper and Pyori..

    Yeah for some reason we keep jumping into shit with no clear objective...  we do alright for a bit but then people get bored znd stop participating, usually followed by the other side gaining momentum until they start going bonkers and we have to back out and it creates a 'lose' situation. 

    Pretty self defeating really.
    To be fair, I think it all started because Zenii didn't quite get the implications of setting relations to Hostile, or if he did, didn't think it through. 
    Thing is, that is exactly how Ravien started it with Mhaldor back when I was Eleusian.

    I'm noticing a concerning pattern here...
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • RyxRyx North of Northreach
    Really excited for the book @Cailin is putting together about the fair! Hopefully I'll be able to help make records for the events she can't attend.
  • VhaithVhaith
    Sobriquet said:
    Caelan said:
    Adrik said:
    So this leaves...

    Eleusis already won in the Eleusis vs Cyrene fights?!
    And to respond to Cooper and Pyori..

    Yeah for some reason we keep jumping into shit with no clear objective...  we do alright for a bit but then people get bored znd stop participating, usually followed by the other side gaining momentum until they start going bonkers and we have to back out and it creates a 'lose' situation. 

    Pretty self defeating really.
    To be fair, I think it all started because Zenii didn't quite get the implications of setting relations to Hostile, or if he did, didn't think it through. 
    Zenii is a girl.

    We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.


  • AstarodAstarod
    edited July 2019
    Adrik said:
    So this leaves....

    Cyrene vs Eleusis war OR
    Targossas vs Eleusis war for next.

    Eleusis vs Eleusis already happened, Mhaldor vs Eleusis already happened, Ashtan (tm) vs Eleusis already happened, and now Hashan vs Eleusis happened.

    Who will win in the Eleusis vs Cyrene fights?!
    Hmm, well a little bird said Hashan may actually try to declare war on Ashtan! Oh Yez!

    For real though, lessgo. Let’s see some progress/Progress! After all the propaganda and the coalition stuff ending, perfect time to stand by your IC Posts!
    The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."

    Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
  • DorielDoriel
    Asmodron said:
    Damn. This little bird is really overworking.
    Someone needs to teach this little bird the age-old lesson of "Talk shit get hit".
  • TorrentTorrent
    Adrik said:
    So this leaves....

    Cyrene vs Eleusis war OR
    Targossas vs Eleusis war for next.

    Eleusis vs Eleusis already happened, Mhaldor vs Eleusis already happened, Ashtan (tm) vs Eleusis already happened, and now Hashan vs Eleusis happened.

    Who will win in the Eleusis vs Cyrene fights?!
    To be fair, I don't think the war between Mhaldor and Eleusis was a declared war though I could be wrong that was a while ago. Also Eleusis doesn't think they win every war, the Eleusian v. Babel Order war, (which by the way never ever, ever, ever do) all that was shown were the kills but Eleusis dusted every shrine that Babel had on the continent but Dunn wrecked in kills so it was considered a loss and it was hard to separate Order/City. The Hashan war, it was pretty even stats-wise, Eleusis couldn't raid cause of time zone issues as most of the people who do raid were never in the same timezone all at once. Though will admit that Hashan pulled it off especially at the end, As wars go it's always standard that neither side really admits defeat but it is assumed it is defeated. Eleusis knows that we didn't win that war but its kinda hard to save face.
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South Africa
    Krizal said:
    Winning condition being "keep hitting them till they all stop playing or quit army" isn't particularly fun for either side.
    Thing is, that is exactly what war is IRL. One side has to literally beat the other into being either unwilling or unable to continue the fight.

    Also, there is no war either IG or RL that has a win-condition. The only winners in any war, both IG and RL, are those who supply the tools for waging war.

    Those engaging in war, those who do the fighting ... they all lose ... every last one of them.
  • NumiraNumira
    edited July 2019
    Athelas said:

    Those engaging in war, those who do the fighting ... they all lose ... every last one of them


    nvm, tried to embed a gif from the movie War Games, it didn’t work. 
  • CaelanCaelan
    Half agree. Half call bullshit.

  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South Africa
    Synbios said:
    ... this is an incredibly unfun scenario when taken into the context of Achaea as a game (gotta balance the need for immersion and the need to grow and retain a satisfied playerbase), and would probably be one of those things that would require suspension of disbelief in the way of setting explicit win-lose conditions. 
    If war becomes fun ... is it still war, or just elaborate sport?
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South Africa
    Archaeon said:
    you get that this is a game right?
    Yup. :D

    The point I'm failing to make, is that the concept of war IG is far to closely related to RL.

    i.e. If one wants to make city conflict more of a thing. One has to employ both carrot and stick strategies.

    Right now, there's too much stick and not enough carrot.

    In designing a successful war mechanic for Achaea, one has to consider:
    1. IC motivation for characters.
    2. OOC motivation for players.

    Right now, the war mechanic fails, because it's all about who gets tired OOC first.
    i.e. Which faction's player-base becomes exhausted first.

    In order to make a successful war mechanic, one would have to alter the system, so that any and all possible OOC factors are removed.
    Such a system would do things like:
    - make time-zones irrelevant
    - remove the potential for player exhaustion
    - reward all participants with something tangible IG.

    As for how to achieve this, I've been thinking about it and the only solutions to the exhaustion factor I've been able to come up with, that makes any sense, is to have an RL limit on the duration of any one war. Something like an IG year might work, but I feel that's something that combatants will have to flesh out.

    With regard to rewarding participants ... well, the admins already know what kind of things would be rewards and how much of what can/should be granted for what level of participation.

    As for making time-zones irrelevant ... I have no clue how to do that just yet. Right now, my best idea is to have some kind of mechanic that allows for players to influence victory/defeat during off times IG.
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