The Revelation

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  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna be
    Daeir said:
    There's like 10 different ways I can think of off the top of my head that you can use to circumvent the no self-fast-travel thing as an Avatar. The caveat is they all pretty much require a second person and are stopped by monolith.

    All except one.
    :)
    Huh. Neat.
  • i'd probably watch a non-com-zom but 30 vs 5 already feels like that heh
    spread positivity
  • Hm, voyria/run to shrine definitely not a mechanic we'll be preserving.

    Will make some more changes shortly to fix up some of these loopholes.

  • ANNOUNCE NEWS #4656                                     (10/10/2016 at 12:18)  
    From   : Makarios, the Meticulous
    To     : Everyone
    Subject: A small batch of changes
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I bring you all another small batch of changes. Here are the details:
    - The areas with only one entrance have been removed from the list of available splinter spawns.
    - TRACK and GROVE RETURN no longer may be performed while avatar.
    - Avatars may no longer be HOISTed.
    - Avatars now all have an always active passive cure. This makes them essentially immune to voyria 
    (and harder to kill!).
    - Shindo THUNDERSTORM and BLIZZARD no longer hit phased/blackwinded/astralformed people.



    Well... fuck
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • edited October 2016
    I understand losing Hoist/Track from others (e.g. dragons) doing it, but not being able to actually track using my own class abilities kinda bites. :/

    Ah well. Soldier on, as it were.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • Sarathai said:
    I understand losing Hoist/Track from others (e.g. dragons) doing it, but not being able to actually track using my own class abilities kinda bites. :/

    Ah well. Soldier on, as it were.
    Runies lost raido daaaaaays ago :)
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • edited October 2016
    @Makarios @Nicola please halp
    I don't even care what was said after this. It's still epic and sums up half this thread.

    I'd just like to say this event has been awesome and I'm not even part of it. The amount of mud slinging and finger pointing here puts the recent presidential debates to shame. I think if half the people who have posted here were not part of this event and were reading what they posted from an outside view they would think less of themselves.

    Its a game people. You're gunna die. You're gunna die a lot. Then you're gunna die some more. Use that time to step outside and breathe.

    @Makarios @Nicola props for creating an event that could create this level of controversy!
  • Makarios said:

    Hm, voyria/run to shrine definitely not a mechanic we'll be preserving.

    Will make some more changes shortly to fix up some of these loopholes.

    What about the grace issue? Die to self or denizen, come back graced and still Avatar, free walk to shrine.
  • I was not expecting this.
    Last night I offered up 20 atlatls on market and got knocked over by the tells, except most of them weren't offers but one fast typer trying to guilt me into selling to them cheap for the sake of the world. Pretty much ruined my desire to sell them at all and left one disappointed person with a million gold in hand. I'm just going to wait until everyone's done hating each other and try it again.
  • The reveal: The Tsol'teth's plot was just to destroy the shrines as we would immediately fall into fighting each other doing their job for them. Those cunning bastards.
  • Farrah said:
    Makarios said:

    Hm, voyria/run to shrine definitely not a mechanic we'll be preserving.

    Will make some more changes shortly to fix up some of these loopholes.

    What about the grace issue? Die to self or denizen, come back graced and still Avatar, free walk to shrine.

    You can't relinquish while graced. Not really keen on promoting rezkilling, though, which is where no grace tends to end up going I find.

  • Addition: that's also a violation of HELP HONOUR and we'd be very happy to hear about anyone doing that.
  • edited October 2016
    It's not just relinquish that's a problem since people can enter a closed off temple like caverns and renounce there, then relinquish. 

    Literally everyone who happens to die to self or denizen is doing it. Clarification as to what's ok and not ok while graced would help then (for example, you presumably can walk somewhere before renouncing to avoid being cave ganked, but not temple/city?).

    I haven't seen anyone deliberately die to a denizen or heartstop to do this. It just happens a lot more often than you would think because of (1) Avatars hiding on guards and (2) tons of crucible/holocaust use.
  • I don't think people are purposely going to a big denizen and kicking it so that they have grace for an easy time. I have seen people diving people on a guardstack because it's the only effective way to claim their essence. The dying to a denizen isn't really the goal so much as getting the essence. Diving someone on a guardstack is such a desperate effort that it can't really be said that people are abusing it by dying to guards
    image
  • KezKez
    edited October 2016
    Why not just make the essence go away or redisperse when you die in a way that doesn't transfer it to someone else?
  • If you're using grace to bypass hostiles, you're doing something wrong. If you think you're skirting what's acceptable, you probably are.
  • Because what happens is 6 people dive impossible odds and somehow win against ridiculous odds and the other team just says cool and subverts while they embrace for 5 minutes would never be worth it to commit to a dive unless, I dunno you had double
    or triple the numbers of the other side 
    image
  • edited October 2016
    Kez said:
    Why not just make the essence go away or redisperse when you die in a way that doesn't transfer it to someone else?
    I'd be down with this. (Or some form of essence diminishing on denizen death. Call it "essence bleeds out of you in death" or something, it just bleeds out less than it would if you died to another player and lost all of it).
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • Makarios said:
    If you're using grace to bypass hostiles, you're doing something wrong. If you think you're skirting what's acceptable, you probably are.
    If everyone's waiting at the cave for you and you walk by them, you're using grace to bypass hostiles. I don't think anyone thinks they're skirting what is acceptable, so clarification would be helpful.

    Like, you can't go to the area of your master shrine while graced, or something like that.
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    There is a difference. You aren't open pk when you come back after dying in a raid.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • I'll rephrase: if you're using grace to bypass hostiles to fulfill an objective, you're doing something wrong. Its the difference between using grace to get back to your city and using grace to get adjacent to a raiding group for your defence group to travel in.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    edited October 2016
    Edited due to ninja'd

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • Jinsun said:
    Makarios said:
    If you're using grace to bypass hostiles, you're doing something wrong. If you think you're skirting what's acceptable, you probably are.
    People walking from tree and cave to city graced to city during raids is a pretty common practice to avoid getting ganked before you can def up.
    It's not the city they're concerned about. I think people are salty (and understandably so) that y'all can use cruicibles, miasma after death to still claim Avatar, and then run inside the Temple, renounce grace, and reject with zero risk involved. 
  • Makarios said:
    I'll rephrase: if you're using grace to bypass hostiles to fulfill an objective, you're doing something wrong. Its the difference between using grace to get back to your city and using grace to get adjacent to a raiding group for your defence group to travel in.
    Yeah. The only problem is some of the master shrines are inside cities or places where people go to hide (Babel caverns), so getting to them -is- the objective but also a normal place to go to renounce, and I think that's where the grey area is arising.

    Probably more easily clarified once all the shrines are in accessible locations.
  • There are far too many ways to skirt the restrictions. Disabling all of them would be a neverending task. The voyria thing alone has a dozen other possibilities off the top of my head. Best just try not to cheat and make admins aware of opportunists (who might not even realise what they're doing).
  • What I would like to know is if anyone is making a clean recording of this event for library purposes? I've been asking through the game and some people only have bits and pieces. Will gladly pay up to 15-20 credits for a copy of a book/scroll when this is all done.



  • I was off and on for about six hours last night and didn't see a single grace abuse (not saying it doesn't happen.) We also found workarounds for fast travel but we're ordered not to use them by @Dunn. There just seems to be a lot of complaining from a team with far superior numbers that has already a used multiple routes to get around a nerd that they asked for. I'm fine telling my guys lets go to the city while graced because they can't check for serpents while graced and I don't want them going near the temple without checking. I know Dunn yelled at someone last night for not eyeing when they came in
    image
  • edited October 2016
    Jinsun said:
    I was off and on for about six hours last night and didn't see a single grace abuse (not saying it doesn't happen.) We also found workarounds for fast travel but we're ordered not to use them by @Dunn. There just seems to be a lot of complaining from a team with far superior numbers that has already a used multiple routes to get around a nerd that they asked for. I'm fine telling my guys lets go to the city while graced because they can't check for serpents while graced and I don't want them going near the temple without checking. I know Dunn yelled at someone last night for not eyeing when they came in
    Right, and that's fair. Honestly, I've been feeling really bad about some of the ganks that have been going, which is why I've just focused on shard gathering instead of being the hangedman/aeon ent. @Leviticus and I were duking it out in the EI and some Eleusians showed up and tried to steamroll him, so he and I backed off. That was fun, and I enjoyed it (except I can't tell if serverside can't handle fractures or what). 'course, while that was going down @Jhui  brings his entire gank crew including @Emilea  and @Lyrin  to kill me for 'Using Chaos against him', so I guess the fact that I required a 6 man OP gank was cool.

    As for the complaining, I think a lot of it's just the fact that sometimes there's some obvious choke points where people can set up and get the drop on the Avatar. I think the realization just needs to be that if you become an avatar, not only your death, but the death of your entire group (especially with pit). But proactively mopping the opposition off the map so your Avatars can walk to the Temple is definitely shady, and I won't use it.
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