Breaking Credit Market

Karren

Klendathu said:

Karren said:

Exelethril said:

I like Cooper's point about a possible bonus once the DR cap has been reached to appease the small playerbase percentage that enjoys bashing relentlessly. 

Maybe a tiny experience bonus(10-15%), so those that invested in bashing arties/talismans don't feel complètement gimp eduard

I'd prefer an increased chance for talisman drops, honestly. After dragon, who really cares about experience?

After elder, most don't care about talismans. The Azatlan ones are only available on outer islands, meaning they're awkward to get to, so only the truly dedicated bother to go for them and three of the seven are minipets and one is a sacrificial dagger (having said that, I'm 98% of the way to completing all seven)

The suggestion that most interests me in this thread is the one regarding more talismans available from bashing, even if they only give a temporary effect. Just make the temporary effect worthwhile, otherwise it'll be another wasted opportunity.

Right, but at least I can sell some of the talisman pieces. I've never bothered with the Azatlan, because yeah, who wants more pets? Tahquil's idea is solid, but in the meantime, it'd be cool to have some sort of incentive to keep hunting. As it is now, I don't want to hunt with friends or novices before I hit cap, because I don't want to waste my time I'm actually gaining gold and having to split it with other people. If anything, DR has made me more anti-social, and less interactive with novices and city-mates.

Cooper

Klendathu said:

Karren said:

Exelethril said:

I like Cooper's point about a possible bonus once the DR cap has been reached to appease the small playerbase percentage that enjoys bashing relentlessly. 

Maybe a tiny experience bonus(10-15%), so those that invested in bashing arties/talismans don't feel complètement gimp eduard

I'd prefer an increased chance for talisman drops, honestly. After dragon, who really cares about experience?

After elder, most don't care about talismans. The Azatlan ones are only available on outer islands, meaning they're awkward to get to, so only the truly dedicated bother to go for them and three of the seven are minipets and one is a sacrificial dagger (having said that, I'm 98% of the way to completing all seven)

The suggestion that most interests me in this thread is the one regarding more talismans available from bashing, even if they only give a temporary effect. Just make the temporary effect worthwhile, otherwise it'll be another wasted opportunity.

I care about them, because I can sell them for 500-1000 gold easily.

The admin have stated the problem is gold being generated, not gold transferring to players.

This would definitely devalue talisman pieces, but if the admin came up with a bunch of new sets that we could find IG that provided either very small bonuses or entirely cosmetic bonuses, that would be cool and keep them fresh and valuable.

Exelethril

No idea what my phone is doing, didn't notice the auto-correct into french and apparently "gimped" isn't a word.

The problem with an increased talisman drop rate is : talismans = tradeable for gold/credits = monetary value, which sort of defeats the purpose of a cap. Then again, you guys are probs bashing for next to nothing just for a slight chance of getting more talismans, so maybe it won't be a big deal idk.

Trey

Cooper said:

Klendathu said:

Karren said:

Exelethril said:

I like Cooper's point about a possible bonus once the DR cap has been reached to appease the small playerbase percentage that enjoys bashing relentlessly. 

Maybe a tiny experience bonus(10-15%), so those that invested in bashing arties/talismans don't feel complètement gimp eduard

I'd prefer an increased chance for talisman drops, honestly. After dragon, who really cares about experience?

After elder, most don't care about talismans. The Azatlan ones are only available on outer islands, meaning they're awkward to get to, so only the truly dedicated bother to go for them and three of the seven are minipets and one is a sacrificial dagger (having said that, I'm 98% of the way to completing all seven)

The suggestion that most interests me in this thread is the one regarding more talismans available from bashing, even if they only give a temporary effect. Just make the temporary effect worthwhile, otherwise it'll be another wasted opportunity.

I care about them, because I can sell them for 500-1000 gold easily.

The admin have stated the problem is gold being generated, not gold transferring to players.

This would definitely devalue talisman pieces, but if the admin came up with a bunch of new sets that we could find IG that provided either very small bonuses or entirely cosmetic bonuses, that would be cool and keep them fresh and valuable.

Agreed with @Cooper

If there are new little tidbit talisman pieces that create temporary bonuses (or semi-permanent cosmetic items) then bashers can continue to earn gold while not directly generating new gold to introduce into the economy. (credit to @Tahquil for the initial post, of course).

Antonius

Exelethril said:

No idea what my phone is doing, didn't notice the auto-correct into french and apparently "gimped" isn't a word.

The problem with an increased talisman drop rate is : talismans = tradeable for gold/credits = monetary value, which sort of defeats the purpose of a cap. Then again, you guys are probs bashing for next to nothing just for a slight chance of getting more talismans, so maybe it won't be a big deal idk.

Tradeable isn't really an issue since the gold that's being traded is already part of the economy. They wouldn't be adding any gold.

Devran

Can talisman pieces still be directly changed into gold? I mean not via selling, but like smushing the piece. Can't remember how it was done.

Also, after you hit the 160k softcap, is it ONLY gold that's effected by the DR? Talisman pieces still stay the same?

Finally, ignoring the minipets and the Atzatl or whatever they're called, are there any plans for Talisman pieces that could be of use to Elder Dragons? (Warning, incoming crazy ideas not to be taken seriously but provided as example) Like rare colored ones that can only be activated on an Elder dragon of the same color that buffs your stats in Lesser for a short period! 

You know, something that has value for people who have already 'finished' bashing and that could become part of the 'economy'.

Seragorn

Most of the idea's being floated here are good, but I still cant see any of them impacting on the prices.  Unfortunately there will still be people prepared to pay more than what the average believe to be acceptable for credits, and thus without an alternative use for gold, they will pay more and inflate the credit price because of the under supply.

Right now I'm sinking gold into Legendary Blacksmith (still not really sure why I'm doing it, but I am), so I'm actively selling small groups of credits and trying to bring CFS down a little in the process because for once I do have need for gold and a very short term use for it.  If I wasn't, I guarantee those CFS prices would still be up close to 9k, diminishing returns or not, because I can be whimsical with my gold as there's no other real use.

So long as I have no need for gold, and another 6 classes I want (read as 15k credits I'd like to drain from market eventually) , the only use for any gold that I produce is to buy credits, DR or not.. So if theres 100 credits sitting there at 8.5k I have the option of taking them, or waiting in the hope that someone puts some up under it.. I'm impatient and chances are someone else will snap them up if I don't..

Skye

Devran said:

Can talisman pieces still be directly changed into gold? I mean not via selling, but like smushing the piece. Can't remember how it was done.


Answered in quote cause mobile is always wonky:
Yes,  magi and alchemists can. But the amount of gold you get is so negligible that nobody in their right mind would do it unless trolling people. I think a red dragon leather or something,  got broken down into a whole 80 gold.  Even at its cheapest,  someone would pay around 500gold for it. 

Seragorn

As another aside, at the moment there really should be additional downward pressure on CFS that doesn't normally exist because of the armour auctions.  Those items are bound credits at 7k if you pick them up at the minimum then trade in (which have been passed up for a couple of weeks in a row now at that price). I know there's at least some regular credit purchasers who are just cleaning them up with their gold, and that's gold that would have normally been putting upward pressure on CFS.

Roatt

put my two gold in as a newb (here)

I bought some credits to sell so I could stock up on essential curatives, vials etc, sold a small batch or two before the limit came in by just undercutting everyone, some quick cash to spend and test things.

Once I had a better idea of what I needed I tried to sell a bunch more but couldn't undercut the market, not even close, so I had to wait until a few hundred cheaper credits sold before I got some money. Yes, I could have begged some coin to buy food, bare essential curatives etc but I had credits to sell, I wanted to load up my rift and go hunting. 

Not sure of a solution to the arbitrage, but as a newb trying to get some quick cash the limits were very annoying.

Omor

@Roatt
I like seeing your perspective, but realistically it's not really a valid point in this case, I think. Just because most "true" newbies don't buy credits to sell, y'know?

Aralaya

@Omor While yes most true newbies don't buy credits to sell, what about the people who can't make 50k - 100k + gold easily? The 'newer' who know enough to buy these credits to sell but can't really do it due to their limitations?

Korben

People may remember that I used to argue that speculation did not drive credit prices up other than in the very short term. My opinion hasn't changed, but if you are determined to curb speculation, here's a suggestion.

Charge a tax/fee. I'd suggest a 100 gold flat rate plus 2.5% of the asking value, charged to the seller upon posting to market. At the current price of 8000 per, that would be a 300 gold fee per credit.

I know this would drive prices up. Curently, from 8000 to a bit over 8300. But if you want to stop speculation it would be much more effective than the current limitation because it cuts directly into the speculators' profit.

Omor

@Aralaya That's still a thing, was merely speaking about Roatt's specific instance. Wasn't attacking anyone. 

Jinsun

I agree speculation isn't what drives up prices as short hedges are based on the differential of current market prices. The cumulative effect is likely far less than the current market issues that have a lot to do with scarcity a la several months without credit promotions and not as many city and house credit sales as a result 

Roatt

@Omor That's true I'm not a typical newb and just waited it out. My point was more that there are other implications to using limits than restricting arbitrage, it is a limit to stop a 'few' heavy traders that affects everyone. Needs a better solution such as the limits apply if you have traded credits more than 10 times a week, if over level 80, scaling trading fee (the more you trade the higher the fee) etc. 

i'm trying to sell more now but in no rush for the cash so I want max $, but I can't set a price at or near market top and leave them there, limited to mid range price. 

Just stating how the limits are affecting me. 

Omor

Roatt said:

Needs a better solution such as the limits apply if you have traded credits more than 10 times a week, if over level 80, scaling trading fee (the more you trade the higher the fee) etc. 

I'm stuck in the box, but I definitely like these ideas. We'll see where admin takes it all, though.

Nazihk

Korben said:

Charge a tax/fee. I'd suggest a 100 gold flat rate plus 2.5% of the asking value, charged to the seller upon posting to market. At the current price of 8000 per, that would be a 300 gold fee per credit.

This is an excellent way to ensure that people stop using the CFS system and start spamming market with "selling X credits for Y each! Send tells!"

The CFS system is entirely a convenience to make it easier to sell credits. The moment you make the convenience system inconvenient, people will stop using it.

Jinsun

i do wonder if just deleting cfs would reduce blatant speculating and would introduce some volatility to the market...

Shirszae

I think people would use ads for similar purposes then. Or just market like now, so nothing much would really change, except for the lack of convenience.

Korben

Nazihk said:

This is an excellent way to ensure that people stop using the CFS system and start spamming market with "selling X credits for Y each! Send tells!"

The CFS system is entirely a convenience to make it easier to sell credits. The moment you make the convenience system inconvenient, people will stop using it.

Good point. The fee should be levied on use of the TRANSFER CREDITS command, and it'd have to be a flat fee (I suggest 200-300 gold per credit) otherwise people will transfer for 0 gold and get their gold payment by mail or by hand.

Jinsun

Shirszae said:

I think people would use ads for similar purposes then. Or just market like now, so nothing much would really change, except for the lack of convenience.

When you cannot see the market average at a whim, it tends to broaden the range of acceptable selling. That's why things like pets and crowns have a much wider range for buying and selling.

Exelethril

This thread is excellent for learning about recently undiscovered schools of economic thought.

Szanthax

Log in at 21:24:09

Credits for sale..

Credits currently available for purchase:

      56 credits at  7600 gold per credit.

      15 credits at  7900 gold per credit.

      18 credits at  7999 gold per credit.

      29 credits at  8000 gold per credit.

     422 credits at  8100 gold per credit.

      15 credits at  8200 gold per credit.

       6 credits at  8250 gold per credit.

      50 credits at  8281 gold per credit.

      44 credits at  8338 gold per credit.

       5 credits at  8573 gold per credit.

(2 offers with higher prices have not been shown.)

Total credits for sale: 660 shown (687 total)  (Average sale price: 7581)

Use CREDITS BUY <number> AT <max gold per credit> to purchase.

Go get some thai food.. .think about things on my phone... decide to maybe come back and buy credits...

Time 21:29:59

Credits currently available for purchase:

      18 credits at  7999 gold per credit.

      29 credits at  8000 gold per credit.

     422 credits at  8100 gold per credit.

      15 credits at  8200 gold per credit.

       6 credits at  8250 gold per credit.

      50 credits at  8281 gold per credit.

      44 credits at  8338 gold per credit.

       5 credits at  8573 gold per credit.

      26 credits at  8600 gold per credit.

       1 credits at  9700 gold per credit.

Total credits for sale: 616 shown (616 total)  (Average sale price: 7747)

Use CREDITS BUY <number> AT <max gold per credit> to purchase.


 ouch!  I missed my chance!

Cooper

There were almost 200 at that price, I bought them all. Sorry Szanthax. You probably did cfs while I was walking to the bank. 

Szanthax

What is this bank you speak of

Jonathin

I try when I can to keep some credits up there at a halfway decent price, but this is the first phone signal I've had in a week.

Greys

Clear example of this: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centipede_game

Korben

I got one of those at 7600, but by the time I got to the bank the rest were gone.

Borran

I miss endurance and willpower limiting bashing. Back when you depleted your endurance and searched for a Grove rain, or campfire. People spent tons of credits on their regeneration rooms to hope to increase their uptime to downtime ratio.