Latest batch of seafaring changes!

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  • edited June 2016
    Well we just got sunk because of buggy tethers rip. I like the new system but the game-breaking bugs are so frustrating
  • Not that there's a lot of those, mind you! It's natural to have bugs in new systems, but it sucks to be the ones to run into them :cookie:
  • Kiet said:
    Well we just got sunk because of buggy tethers rip. I like the new system but the game-breaking bugs are so frustrating
    Yeah, but someone doesn't complain when using that bug on others!

    image
  • edited June 2016
    Siduri said:
    Kiet said:
    Well we just got sunk because of buggy tethers rip. I like the new system but the game-breaking bugs are so frustrating
    Yeah, but someone doesn't complain when using that bug on others!
    ? The bug isn't from being tethered, it's from tethering someone else. Unless you were shooting hookshots at other people on a cutter.... As far as I can tell being tethered is working as intended.
  • edited June 2016
    As an aside, is there something wrong with ship deathsights currently? The last two ships I sank solo reported the fact of the sinking, but did not give the subsequent message "sent below by Herald of the Void, captained by Anaria". In both cases I was the only source of damage to the target ship in question. I figured that was just the way things were now, until I saw tonight's message. 

    Not that I necessarily mind being about to sink people without leaving fingerprints.......

    Edit: Although I suppose if the target was on fire and taking fire damage that resulted in 0% Hull, that might be the reason? Like the system doesn't know/care whose fire is whose?
  • Kiet said:
    Siduri said:
    Kiet said:
    Well we just got sunk because of buggy tethers rip. I like the new system but the game-breaking bugs are so frustrating
    Yeah, but someone doesn't complain when using that bug on others!
    ? The bug isn't from being tethered, it's from tethering someone else. Unless you were shooting hookshots at other people on a cutter.... As far as I can tell being tethered is working as intended.
    Ah. You tethered the Greydawn?

    image
  • Siduri said:
    Kiet said:
    Siduri said:
    Kiet said:
    Well we just got sunk because of buggy tethers rip. I like the new system but the game-breaking bugs are so frustrating
    Yeah, but someone doesn't complain when using that bug on others!
    ? The bug isn't from being tethered, it's from tethering someone else. Unless you were shooting hookshots at other people on a cutter.... As far as I can tell being tethered is working as intended.
    Ah. You tethered the Greydawn?
    we were tethering the vashnarian heart and it never let us ship disengage. So we were "tethered" to them the whole time even when they bolted. So once you tethered us, even if they were chopped, we were still tethered. Fun times.


  • @Saeva You did know I was repeatedly firing tethers? I think at the end of the day I probably shot a dozen or so. If not, sorry about it and hopefully any bugs get worked out. At least you are at a cheap spot to salvage.
  • Greys said:
    @Saeva You did know I was repeatedly firing tethers? I think at the end of the day I probably shot a dozen or so. If not, sorry about it and hopefully any bugs get worked out. At least you are at a cheap spot to salvage.
    I am 100% aware you were repeatedly firing tethers. It had nothing to do with your tethers.


  • Saeva said:
    Greys said:
    @Saeva You did know I was repeatedly firing tethers? I think at the end of the day I probably shot a dozen or so. If not, sorry about it and hopefully any bugs get worked out. At least you are at a cheap spot to salvage.
    I am 100% aware you were repeatedly firing tethers. It had nothing to do with your tethers.
    When I sunk Siduri's ship, just before it sank I managed to SHIP DISENGAGE and it released the tethers just fine then. We also drifted a room or two away after, so it definitely worked. 
    image
  • edited June 2016
    Alrena said:
    Saeva said:
    Greys said:
    @Saeva You did know I was repeatedly firing tethers? I think at the end of the day I probably shot a dozen or so. If not, sorry about it and hopefully any bugs get worked out. At least you are at a cheap spot to salvage.
    I am 100% aware you were repeatedly firing tethers. It had nothing to do with your tethers.
    When I sunk Siduri's ship, just before it sank I managed to SHIP DISENGAGE and it released the tethers just fine then. We also drifted a room or two away after, so it definitely worked. 
    Okay, that's great. But it definitely did -not- work for me. It wasn't even giving me any echo. Just nothing. It was completely unresponsive to the command.

    Also, I'm very much not the only person to encounter this. Ellodin say he's bugged it before too.


  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    Shirszae said:
    Er. You don't need to have the command aura attuned to use Remote.

    ETA: @Nicola, are the other rank five perks bound to the associated auras? For example does the rowing speed bonus of helm need the helm aura active? To my understanding this was not the case, but I am not sure. I only know that is not the case with Command.
    Really? That seems out of line. To my knowledge, all the other rank V perks require your aura to be active to function. Helm's row bonus certainly only applies with the aura up, at least. That's kinda broken if you ask me, getting meldless casting while able to maintain a different aura entirely.
    Daeir said:
    Except the helm row speed aura. You're pretty much fucked without it in most circumstances.

    It isn't a small bonus at all. 10-15% passive speed boost on a CTN strider with it up, and they're not even full elite yet.
    I'm not convinced of this. I've tested this with cutters and galleys so far, and I have only seen an increase of a flat 1 knot to my row speed, regardless of ship size, crew xp, or weather. Granted, +1 knot is a lot in stormy seas if you don't have sails, (given that row speed in stormy seas can be effectively zero) but I am so far not that impressed by the Helm rank V perk overall.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • Saeva said:
    Siduri said:
    Kiet said:
    Siduri said:
    Kiet said:
    Well we just got sunk because of buggy tethers rip. I like the new system but the game-breaking bugs are so frustrating
    Yeah, but someone doesn't complain when using that bug on others!
    ? The bug isn't from being tethered, it's from tethering someone else. Unless you were shooting hookshots at other people on a cutter.... As far as I can tell being tethered is working as intended.
    Ah. You tethered the Greydawn?
    we were tethering the vashnarian heart and it never let us ship disengage. So we were "tethered" to them the whole time even when they bolted. So once you tethered us, even if they were chopped, we were still tethered. Fun times.
    That's odd. Because we made sure to chop every single one of the tethers you shot into my ship before we bolted. I lost count after the five or so I personally chopped and I know @Jadys and @Majin were both chopping as well. I wonder why it would break on the vessel firing instead of the one being fired upon.

  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    Well, tethers do stop both ships from wavecalling, so it's possible it's just fudged up on one end. Ship bugs are notoriously strange and difficult to pick out - like the sinking in harbour bugs despite no active damage happening. That one might even still exist somewhere, but I hope not.

    I think Ellodin said he had bugged something along the line of 18 bugs on ships, though some were repeats. There's been a lot of breaking of things lately.

    That said, getting fed a log of the fight to try and pick out problems helped me set up some highlights and begin considering some better methods of defense, despite that none of that would have saved the ship I think.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    @Aerek I see Remote as a skill you unlock at rank V command, as opposed to something being related strictly to the command aura, and I think thats perfectly fine.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    Except that it completely nullifies starshot as a weapon against you, even if you're using some other Aura. I think that's a bit much. Command already has the best rank V perk with the largest impact on a fight, so that's crazy that it can also be stacked with other auras like Deckhand for repair/fire management at the same time.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    Starshot has its uses, since you can't wavecall without being properly melded anyway. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • Cellorran said:
    Kiet said:
    Well we just got sunk because of buggy tethers rip. I like the new system but the game-breaking bugs are so frustrating
    Saeva said:
    Alrena said:
    Saeva said:
    Greys said:
    @Saeva You did know I was repeatedly firing tethers? I think at the end of the day I probably shot a dozen or so. If not, sorry about it and hopefully any bugs get worked out. At least you are at a cheap spot to salvage.
    I am 100% aware you were repeatedly firing tethers. It had nothing to do with your tethers.
    When I sunk Siduri's ship, just before it sank I managed to SHIP DISENGAGE and it released the tethers just fine then. We also drifted a room or two away after, so it definitely worked. 
    Okay, that's great. But it definitely did -not- work for me. It wasn't even giving me any echo. Just nothing. It was completely unresponsive to the command.

    Also, I'm very much not the only person to encounter this. Ellodin say he's bugged it before too.
    Thank you guys. I found the cause of this pseudo-grappling state after SHIP DISENGAGE and the fix will be live shortly. Another bug bytes the dust!
    Quoting as proof we weren't making things up and just so targossas doesn't think we somehow can't tell when we're tethered to the wrong ship (the issue started before the cts whatever even arrived) :tongue:

    Still a perfect record for Mhaldor if we ignore bugs, too :bleep_bloop:
  • @Kiet It was not an accusation, I simply was exploring all possibilities just to make sure we can correctly identify the problem. Troubleshooting is something I do a lot IRL so it tends to wash over into my gaming. Apologize if I gave offense.
  • Oh, I'm not offended, just people are bound to assume user error before bug (I do too). No worries
  • Kiet said:
    Oh, I'm not offended, just people are bound to assume user error before bug (I do too). No worries
    Have you turned it off, and then back on again?

    (pause)

    Great!

    *hangs up phone*

    My life is an episode of the IT crowd 

  • SzanthaxSzanthax San Diego
    Greys said:
    @Kiet It was not an accusation, I simply was exploring all possibilities just to make sure we can correctly identify the problem. Troubleshooting is something I do a lot IRL so it tends to wash over into my gaming. Apologize if I gave offense.
    Kiet said:
    Oh, I'm not offended, just people are bound to assume user error before bug (I do too). No worries
    How dare you speak civil... Where is the forumrp????



  • One thing I'd like added is plunder income to the ship log, since right now you just have to remember what you had before the plunder, I think?
  • Kresslack said:
    People have been griping about Cutter vs Strider for years, but the fact of the matter is that the cutter is an entry level ship and, for the most part, the Strider is the sweet spot.
    I find this mindset that you and others advocate to be very offputting. The fact that Windcutters are 'entry-level ships' does not negate the fact that they should have a niche, which they currently don't. Nor does it negate the fact that ship combat from the perspective of a Windcutter is absolutely awful, especially post seafaring reworks.

    A Windcutter engaged by a pirate is put into a situation where they have zero chance to come out on top, with the only outcome resembling victory being that of escaping into a harbour. To achieve the great victory of not completely losing, the Windcutter has to outrun a ship much faster than it, all the while maintaining enough distance to elude Wavescythe, as a single successful volley by the pirate ship will result in being hit by chain-shot and grapples that remove all hope of escape.

    On the other hand, getting caught comes with heaps of punishment. At a minimum you're going to get plundered, which you're more vulnerable to due to having fewer swashbucklers and fewer means to train them. Then you're practically guaranteed to be sunk, which can be a massive annoyance (or gold cost) to raise depending on how far from harbour you were. Lastly, to add insult to injury, we've had it very clearly stated that you have no right to seek any sort of vengeance for being stolen from, largely inconvenienced and possibly killed.

    The niche that the Windcutter -should- fill is a less capable, less expensive and easy to handle ship designed for small crews of one or two players. They don't fill this currently, though, because the way ship afflictions were designed makes them obscenely potent against small crews while being naught but minor inconveniences to big ones. You mention being clever, but were it not for the increased ability to spam Wavecall, I'm not sure that Windcutters would have any means of escape at all.

    'Strider vs. Cutter' isn't a contest, it's a pursuit meant solely for the fun of the Strider at the expense of the Cutter.

    That being said, this is just the perspective of a casual seafarer whose few brushes with seafaring combat have been no fun and all stress.
  • I wish windcutters could have ballista on board. While striders and galleys can sail about trading shots a cutter can't retaliate unless they are in 3 squares of a ship.
    Cutter's firepoweris already the shittiest as you can only have one weapon, but you have to be in close range as well.
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    edited June 2016
    I think cutters have a fine niche for casual sailors that don't want to deal with high upkeep costs and only want to do the occasional trade, fishing trip, or island exploration. Don't know why folks say cutters don't have a role. They do have a role, they're the "economy" class of ship, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you're highly interested in Seafaring as one of your main activities, then obviously a cutter's lack of flexibility means it isn't a good choice for you, but that's not the cutter's fault. It's a great choice for the people who don't want or need a strider's functionality.

    However.

    I agree that the cutter's complete and total lack of offense is an issue. Before, with forceboarding, I could always at least launch a deck at an aggressor and board them to settle it that way. Now that I can't do that, running is the -only- option, and I agree that's not a lot of fun to be on the dedicated defensive side. Cutter offense should be "weak", but you should still have the theoretical possibility to sink an aggressor.

    An idea I've toyed with for a long time is to make flares, when fired at a ship, actually do hull damage. It would need to be a very small amount of damage, but with the ability to load multiple flares into an arm, a cutter should be able to launch 3 flares at a time for a bit of damage and chances to start fires. (The fires themselves are easily handled, hence cutters' lack of offense in the first place.) This would mean that ballistas and onagers would also be able to fire flares for damage, so it would need to be balanced carefully, but I think it could be done.

    I haven't had the opportunity to engage in real ship combat much, (and none since the changes) so I'm not the one to do that balancing, but I figure if an onager firing 7 flares hits for about a ballista's worth of damage, then a Cutter firing an arm with 3 flares will deal about half the damage of a ballista, at a much higher ammo cost, but that's still something. Numbers would have to be crunched to see if 1/2 a ballista's damage would even overcome basic repair (I'd assume ship crew + 2 players repairing) and numbers would have to be crunched to make sure that the onager's new-found ability to damage at long range (for high ammo cost) didn't suddenly make striders and galleys into death cannons, but provided a sweet spot can be found, that may give cutters some teeth while not pushing strider/galley damage output into an unreasonable range.


    Edit: The thought struck me that 3 flares fired at a ship could deal 50% ballista damage (or whatever arbitrary value was reasonable) but additional flares would scale up only slightly, to a max that was still less than a ballista dart. (Say 75% of a ballista with 7 flares) That way 3 flares would always deal "reasonable" damage, giving cutters teeth, but striders and galleys would be discouraged from using flares as damage, since it would deal less damage than a ballista at a much higher ammo cost.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • Nope. Ballista or bust, Bae.
  • I agree with Tahquil! Let cutters use old forceboard!
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USA
    Kinilan said:
    I agree with Tahquil! Let cutters use old forceboard!
    I can feel the rage as the Tide rises again!
    image
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