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Warp Trolls

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  • SkarashSkarash
    Tahquil said:

    I do think that you should have nearly the same requirements to cancel a warp as you do to raise it. Two people, same time requirement, same action restrictions.
    I dont think two people would work because you could stick one end on a guard stack, making that warp pretty invulnerable to destruction-this is why I went with an object instead.
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WA
    A....


    Warp Troll.

    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?"
  • TahquilTahquil
    Kayeil said:
    Bullshit you do. You've been shitty toward me ever since you felt 'entitled' to get dragon before me during the Bal'met event and told me I should stop hunting so you could get it first because you imagined there must be some special reward for getting it after Ashexei's death. Other than that, we've pretty much never interacted IC and you definitely don't know me OOC.
    Rofl, so much for talking to myself. I can't remember doing that but knowing me I probably did. I probably backed it up with my top-tier combat skills as well. Honestly, the only time I thought about you was your posts on how much in love you and Gamden were and waiting for the inevitable trainwreck to occur.

    At least I think that was you. I care so much about you I can't tell you, Kyrra and Kythra apart. (No offence to the other two).
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    Just add a line in for checking for a wormhole that persists for like 24 hours and includes the name of the person that cancelled or attacked the wormhole.

    You close your eyes and reach out with your mind to seek out wormholes.
    You sense no wormhole here, but traces of magic belonging to Mosr permeate the area.

    Do the same with wormholes that were created. No more anonymity unless nobody checks.

    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Erm the Gamden thing was entirely IC, barely posted about him, and it didn't work out because he wanted to be with his ex and it lasted a week at best before he got engaged to a third girl he didn't even know and then retired maybe a week later because that didn't work out, but you totally know what you're talking about, right? lol. You care enough to know what I post and enough to speculate about what's going on with my character.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    No worries, @Grandue. I'd heard you were out of the country and can only imagine how busy you are with still getting Ashtan in order with all the new changes. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets frustrating and exasperating sometimes. Leaders aren't perfect, and won't always respond or act the perfect way. Being so busy and short on time during vacation, I'm surprised you had time to try and handle it all, to be honest.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    Yo, before the catfight continues any further

    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WA
    edited April 2016
    derail done
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?"
  • TahquilTahquil
    Skarash said:
    Tahquil said:

    I do think that you should have nearly the same requirements to cancel a warp as you do to raise it. Two people, same time requirement, same action restrictions.
    I dont think two people would work because you could stick one end on a guard stack, making that warp pretty invulnerable to destruction-this is why I went with an object instead.
    There was a suggestion of having the two people be able to be on the same end of the warp. Maybe like tying it up/sewing the ether back together like a pouch.
  • TaelTael
    edited April 2016
    This thread seriously reads like something from the sewer. I think a number of people need to take a step back and look at what they're writing - it's really unpleasant to read and not at all constructive.

    Beyond that, I wanted to clarify about what I meant regarding the totem idea (regardless of whose idea it was first - I really don't care about getting some sort of credit for the idea or whatever and I never said I came up with it first):

    It wasn't for cities to claim random warps. It was for cities to claim warps within their cities (within defendable). No city gets to claim a warp between Thera and Moghedu, just like no city gets to implant and claim a totem in the middle of Moghedu. I thought that was implicit in my suggestion, but I guess it should be laid out more explicitly.

    Regarding @Tahquil 's objection, I don't think I agree. If that line of reasoning held, then you'd expect the exact same problems for totems and that's clearly not what happened when emplowerment went in. I don't think virtually anyone thinks that totem empowerment made the obnoxious totem-uproot/implant conflict worse.
    Though I do think the two-people thing for cancelling would be totally reasonable too. Cancelling already has an advantage in that anyone with the survival ability can do it. In fact, cancelling being announced via empowerment and taking someone on both sides of the wormhole (like splicing) would be really ideal I think.

    Without being announced, the fact that it takes two people is sort of meaningless. Sure you need one more person to go on your griefing run, but that's not much of a deterrent - it's still very much possible to go cancel a bunch of org wormholes with almost no consequences and it's still not a fun form of conflict. The only real defence against it would be the equally boring and lame practice of using automated radar dish players, which is pretty much the same as the current situation (and they'd need veils to deal with some potential cancellers). Requiring two cancellers is better than nothing, but I don't think it's any better a solution than requiring two exterminators would have been. I really think you need some sort of "alarm system" for people cancelling in-city warps. They're functionally org property/resources and they should be treated like org property/resources (specifically like other removable org property/resources with long setup/teardown times: totems).

    If it's announced and takes someone on either side, it'd be very hard for people to cancel org wormholes with one end inside org property without some kind of larger-scale conflict and protectors for the cancellers. That's good. There's nothing wrong with wormholes providing another driver for group combat. That'd be a good thing!

    If enemies manage to splice in a wormhole to the city, then the people trying to cancel it still have a huge advantage: they don't need serpents (just people with survival) and one end of the process is on their home turf. If they're having difficulty holding the other end of the warp to finish the cancel or there aren't enough people around to cancel it - just move some guards onto the other end of the wormhole until you can deal with it. More reason to make dynamic use of guards would be good, not bad!

    If enemies manage to splice in a wormhole between cities, then it'd be hard for either side to cancel it. Good! That sounds fun! That'd be a wormhole fight actually worth having.
    My Nexus Scripts
  • NataliiaNataliia
    edited April 2016
    When I originally posed the idea of having a message come through for wormholes being cancelled, there's a reason I suggested making it a skill in VISION and not something that directly rang through to the parties that created the warp, or only to serpents. I'm not a fan of the idea evolving into something like EMPOWER. That skill is already obnoxious.

    Seems to me it'd be pretty easy to add a vision skill though, fairly high up, that'd set off an alarm if you have it on as a defense.

    Skill:   Wormwarning
    Effect: When activated, alerts you to attacks on wormholes provided you're on the same continent. Does not display the name of the person cancelling, only the room (I'd be down with general area if the exact location is too specific) where the wormhole is being attacked.

    @Tecton is this viably worth IDEAing in game?
  • XadenXaden
    This thread is packed full of piss and vinegar. Thanks for making my morning guys :) But on topic, warp wars seem just as boring as shrine wars. Glad it effects me in no way.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • DortheronDortheron
    Tahquil said:
    Skarash said:
    Tahquil said:

    I do think that you should have nearly the same requirements to cancel a warp as you do to raise it. Two people, same time requirement, same action restrictions.
    I dont think two people would work because you could stick one end on a guard stack, making that warp pretty invulnerable to destruction-this is why I went with an object instead.
    There was a suggestion of having the two people be able to be on the same end of the warp. Maybe like tying it up/sewing the ether back together like a pouch.
    This is why I like my suggestion. It would take two serpents to start the the warp, but you wouldn't need 2 or even 1 to keep it splicing. Having both or just one would speed it up (and defend it from attacks). If no one had a problem with the warp you could start the splice, both serps go do their thing, and after a time of no attacks (12 hours unattended? would have to be adjusted) it would naturally finish and be available to use. Makes it convenient to start without being required to babysit it, and leaves it open to be attacked so that both sides have a chance to start/kill it
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • XadenXaden
    I watched The Aristocats last night, I was less catty than this thread :)
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • DortheronDortheron
    I purposely post about ideas of changing worm warps in avoiding the drama and most people dwell on it. Thank you few who chose to engage me instead of attack others
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • TahquilTahquil
    Are you allowed to empower totems for cities outside of cities (and the designated defendable area)?
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    Be advised, the only way to effectively cancel a warp under hostile conditions is to 1) control both ends for 30 minutes, 2) have a Shackle, so there's a bit of a paywall there. If one end of that wormhole is in hostile territory that you can't hold for the duration, any non-Shackled, would-be cancellers are going to get Vortex'ed 3 minutes in when mass wears off.

    Needing two people to cancel a wormhole wouldn't really stop any of the org-based warp wars that people are focused on, or even lone-wolf trolls, (unless you really think they have 0 friends) but does risk making any wormhole with one end in hostile territory very difficult close. It'd be good for Shackle sales, but I don't think that'd be good for the game as a whole.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • TaelTael
    Tahquil said:
    Are you allowed to empower totems for cities outside of cities (and the designated defendable area)?
    I feel like the fact that this has to be asked demonstrates that, even if it is possible (I'm not sure either), it's not really necessarily a problem.
    My Nexus Scripts
  • FrederichFrederich
    So.  No real clue what's going on here because uh... Lots of derailing but.

    The general gist of it seems to be that people are cancelling a warp hub and it affects everyone.  The people not involved are getting inconvenienced (very minorly, at that.) because their class skill/800 cr stick/auto mapper isn't letting them WALK TO X properly.  Now, this may just be me, being a guy who plays on Nexus without any of those things but...

    Why the piss does it matter?  Like, yeah, it makes it faster.  Yeah, it really friggin sucks to have to resplice.  However it's a minor inconvenience in an otherwise 'small'ish world.  I mean, I'd be royally pissed of someone destroyed a certain wormhole on the Ilyrean Isles... (Hint: They already did).  However it's just "eh".

    I'm down for wormholes getting spliced and entering a 24 hour period where they're super vulnerable and "Opening".  After that, they're fully established.  If someone attacks the wormhole and beats it, it enters a state of "Closing".  Examining the wormhole in this state will show you the 'essence' of the person who attacked and set to work on closing it.  It will take a 24 hour period, same at the Opening phase.  A singular serpent, after this point, can set to repairing the wormhole.  If you have a serpent on both ends of it, you can quickly repair it, otherwise it's about the same time as it is currently.  (Like.  Half an hour?).   To attack wormhole, it's the same amount of time too.  If you perform proper maintenance and check around your HUB every so often for attacked wormholes... you'll be utterly fine like this.

    It provides everything that everyone seems to want.

    1.  Wormholes are more durable and, while they take longer to open, they take the same time to close.
    2.  Finally you can figure out who is attacking your wormholes and go to punishing them.
    3.  2 serpents is better than one for fixing a "Closing" wormhole.

    Love you all, please stop screaming at one another. :(
  • DortheronDortheron
    Aerek said:
    Be advised, the only way to effectively cancel a warp under hostile conditions is to 1) control both ends for 30 minutes, 2) have a Shackle, so there's a bit of a paywall there. If one end of that wormhole is in hostile territory that you can't hold for the duration, any non-Shackled, would-be cancellers are going to get Vortex'ed 3 minutes in when mass wears off.

    Needing two people to cancel a wormhole wouldn't really stop any of the org-based warp wars that people are focused on, or even lone-wolf trolls, (unless you really think they have 0 friends) but does risk making any wormhole with one end in hostile territory very difficult close. It'd be good for Shackle sales, but I don't think that'd be good for the game as a whole.
    That's only for movement based abilities stopped by mass. Beckon, Telepathy throw, etc would still ruin the worm attack and make your Shackle purchase to cancel be a much less effective.
    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • XadenXaden
    @Frederich you're quickly become my favorite non-Targy player. Seems a sensible solution. I'd imagine (some?) people would be open to it taking slightly longer to close one than open it too (a la totems, if I'm not mistaken).
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • TahquilTahquil
    edited April 2016
    Tael said:
    Tahquil said:
    Are you allowed to empower totems for cities outside of cities (and the designated defendable area)?
    I feel like the fact that this has to be asked demonstrates that, even if it is possible (I'm not sure either), it's not really necessarily a problem.
    Well warps and totems are very different. Totems help defend a city, and so are placed in the city or just outside. But not all every the place, I had assumed there was some PK law about this to stop people toteming up all of Thera, Mhaldor Isle or the Eastern Reaches.

    Warp Hubs sound like they are ideally constructed outside cities because they pose a large security risk. And so will always have an axis of city PK conflict outside of the city.
  • XadenXaden
    I might be wrong here, but hasn't @Mindshell totemed up half of the sangre planes? (or is it the dardanics?)
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • TahquilTahquil
    edited April 2016
    That is/was personal totems.
  • TaelTael
    Tahquil said:
    Tael said:
    Tahquil said:
    Are you allowed to empower totems for cities outside of cities (and the designated defendable area)?
    I feel like the fact that this has to be asked demonstrates that, even if it is possible (I'm not sure either), it's not really necessarily a problem.
    Well warps and totems are very different. Totems help defend a city, and so are placed in the city or just outside. But not all every the place, I had assumed there was some PK law about this to stop people toteming up all of Thera, Mhaldor Isle or the Eastern Reaches.

    Warp Hubs sound like they are ideally constructed outside cities because they pose a large security risk. And so will always have an axis of city PK conflict outside of the city.
    I guess that's a fair point. I had forgotten that so many hubs had been moved out of cities now.
    My Nexus Scripts
  • DaironDairon
    Tael said:
    Tahquil said:
    Tael said:
    Tahquil said:
    Are you allowed to empower totems for cities outside of cities (and the designated defendable area)?
    I feel like the fact that this has to be asked demonstrates that, even if it is possible (I'm not sure either), it's not really necessarily a problem.
    Well warps and totems are very different. Totems help defend a city, and so are placed in the city or just outside. But not all every the place, I had assumed there was some PK law about this to stop people toteming up all of Thera, Mhaldor Isle or the Eastern Reaches.

    Warp Hubs sound like they are ideally constructed outside cities because they pose a large security risk. And so will always have an axis of city PK conflict outside of the city.
    I guess that's a fair point. I had forgotten that so many hubs had been moved out of cities now.
    Like you said, the warp hubs are located outside the city to prevent security risks within the city. When placed outside the city, it could potentially serve 0 purpose* in city PK conflict, as long as it has warps that only lead to neutral zones. 

    * An exception may be having a warp that goes "around" the entrance of the city, thus enabling the defenders to loop around the attacking force.. but not many cities use this since it provides raiders an easy way out. 
  • DortheronDortheron
    Frederich said:

    I'm down for wormholes getting spliced and entering a 24 hour period where they're super vulnerable and "Opening".  After that, they're fully established.  If someone attacks the wormhole and beats it, it enters a state of "Closing".  Examining the wormhole in this state will show you the 'essence' of the person who attacked and set to work on closing it.  It will take a 24 hour period, same at the Opening phase.  A singular serpent, after this point, can set to repairing the wormhole.  If you have a serpent on both ends of it, you can quickly repair it, otherwise it's about the same time as it is currently.  (Like.  Half an hour?).   To attack wormhole, it's the same amount of time too.  If you perform proper maintenance and check around your HUB every so often for attacked wormholes... you'll be utterly fine like this.

    It provides everything that everyone seems to want.

    1.  Wormholes are more durable and, while they take longer to open, they take the same time to close.
    2.  Finally you can figure out who is attacking your wormholes and go to punishing them.
    3.  2 serpents is better than one for fixing a "Closing" wormhole.

    Love you all, please stop screaming at one another. :(

    Similar to what Cooper proposed, although the 24 hour period might be too harsh. I think the essence part when probed is preferable over room/area messages. I think some manner of masking who did it would be neat (like a 1/3rd chance of enough "essence" being left to identify you from canceling) so that killing one warp would be much safer than killing an entire hub.


    You know, that one thing at that one place, with that one person.

    Yea, that one!
  • AereidhnaAereidhna Dallas
    edited April 2016
    nevermind!
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