Warp Trolls

Grandue

Why is this a thing? Two serpents required to set up a warp but only one to cancel it? Can we please either make it require two serpents to cancel a warp (they can even both be in the same room) or make it take like 45 minutes or something so that a single dude wanting to be an ass hat can't go on a canceling spree and knock out a bunch of them. I suspect there are some new serpents who just want to try out the skill and go cancel a warp just to see it work also. Requiring a second serpent to cancel would put some accountability in to prevent novices from tearing down warps just out of curiosity. Or make canceling warps on a city/house/temple a quick process for security reasons but take much much longer if the warps are outside of factional areas. I'm tired of my mapper freaking out over warps being canceled.

Aerek

While it might be annoying when someone wants to be annoying, there are some pretty big implications in cancelling wormholes on your home turf if you had to send someone to the other side. If a city routed your city and then established a wormhole from some corner of your town to one of their guardstacks/defendable, that wormhole would be pretty impossible for you to cancel.

Goryllin

I cancel warps without being a serpent. So I should be exempted from the requirement of two serpents

Grandue

Aerek said:

While it might be annoying when someone wants to be annoying, there are some pretty big implications in cancelling wormholes on your home turf if you had to send someone to the other side. If a city routed your city and then established a wormhole from some corner of your town to one of their guardstacks/defendable, that wormhole would be pretty impossible for you to cancel.

Which is why I suggested allowing them to both be on the same side of the warp or for it to take much less time in a city/house/temple.

I would say that probably 95% of warps that are canceled are between two completely neutral areas that offer no tactical advantage to any city and are just canceled by people who like being annoying. It is boring, promotes no RP or interaction between characters since 99% of the time it is done in hiding. Why do asshats get to gimp the value of my 800cr artefact by sitting still in a room for a few minutes? Make it more of a chore for them or make it require someone else be an asshat with them. Or give warp sticks the ability to create their own warps (no, please don't really do that)

Aodfionn

I dislike the idea of adding a requirement to "reduce the number of novices doing this," when I know for a fact that the Ashtani warps aren't getting dropped by novices. 

Aerek's post illustrates the most glaring problem with the proposal to require two serpents.

the idea of having cancelling take less time in a serpent's factional area is pretty nifty, though. 

Paine

Worm warp wars (TM) are some of the most boring and most tedious "conflict" I have ever experienced. I have had to deal with my share of those, where one person decides to start cancelling, the victim org decides to lash out by cancelling back, and it turns into a vicious circle of cancelling that finally ends when both sides realize how stupid it is.

I do not know how to solve the issue, but one thing that would be nice would be to find out the identity of the person that cancelled a warp. I have no idea how to actually implement that, though. It would make for slightly more interesting conflict if the victim knew how to engage back instead of just opening themselves for more cancelling when they re-splice. Most instigators of worm warp wars strike and try to keep their identity a secret from their victim. You have to catch them in the act and it's easy to avoid getting caught.

On the positive side, whoever fixed the bug that did not allow me to send tells while splicing or cancelling, thank you. Not being able to send tells while splicing made it one of the worst things to do in achaea. Now if you can only make it like implanting a totem, inscribing a tatttoo, etc. that would be lovely.

Szanthax

Not it®

Kayeil

If your mapper runs into cancelled wormholes, you can use this code Seragorn gave me... When the mapper updates it wipes out the compiled list so you'll occasionally end up going through the process of eliminating the cancelled ones whenever the updates go through. SUPER helpful, though.



exact match these:
There is no wormhole here.
You are not carrying a key for this door.

if mmp.speedWalkDir and mmp.speedWalkDir[speedWalkCounter] and mmp.speedWalkDir[speedWalkCounter]=="worm warp" then

mmp.echo("Missing wormhole detected, locking wormhole and trying new path...")

lockSpecialExit(mmp.currentroom, mmp.speedWalkPath[speedWalkCounter], "worm warp", true)

local destination = mmp.speedWalkPath[#mmp.speedWalkPath]

mmp.stop()

mmp.clearpathcache() -- clear cache so mmp.getPath accounts for the new way

if not mmp.getPath(mmp.currentroom, destination) then

mmp.echo(string.format("Don't know how to get to %d (%s) anymore Move into a room we know of to continue", destination, getRoomName(destination)))

else

mmp.gotoRoom(destination)

end

end

Szanthax

That's included in the mapper script now I think

Kayeil

I think @Skarash had some idea about them being able to be empowered like totems so someone gets a notice if it's being attacked, and when it has been dropped.

That would have to be more fleshed out in if only one individual gets to empower, and if only the creator of the warp can or if someone else can... but what if the creator of the warp goes dormant? And many of these are city created warp hubs created outside of cities, so would cities be able to claim certain wormholes and get a warning like they do when totems are smudged?

It's an interesting idea, but we didn't get into detail when he mentioned it to me, and I don't know what the best way to implement it would be.

Kayeil

Szanthax said:

That's included in the mapper script now I think

Oh? But Grandue said his mapper freaks out over cancelled wormholes, so I'm thinking that's not the case unless he hasn't updated in a long time.

Szanthax

Great idea for class leads? Oh... Maybe we should idea it?

Kayeil

Szanthax said:

Great idea for class leads? Oh... Maybe we should idea it?

Aren't classleads over? I think he was going to IDEA it or post it somewhere. He may have and I just don't know if he did.

Nataliia

I think the warp cancelling is driving a ton of us crazy. Considering the fact that there is an 800 credit artefact in the game to be able to use warps, having a ton of them suddenly boofed in a matter of days is beyond obnoxious. I really have been wondering myself if it's just someone cancelling them to be an dickwad, or if there's a point to them being cancelled. For reference, I'm going with the former.

I am in complete agreement with it being more difficult to cancel them or something to make this not be so easily a thing. I mean, people have been asking for more 1v1 conflict. Why not make cancelling a warp something that alerts people who are so high in vision, with a passive skill? Something like, "A prickling sensation tingles on the back of your neck, alerting you to the worm network being attacked at North of New Thera". Doesn't have to give a name, just alerts people that it's going on that way it at least gives people a chance to try to stop it. I'm sure there are plenty of warmongers (said fondly) that would jump at the chance to go stop it.

Kayeil

I think if wormholes were no longer allowed in cities, that two serpents needed to cancel would be entirely viable. Do any cities even use wormholes in their own cities anymore? I think Hashan might in some locked off area, but I can't think of any elsewhere.

Szanthax

I also have a wormstick... 

Class leads are over...

I love wormholes...

Haven't run into this in a while so I dunno who what is causing this. Are they decaying??

Kayeil

Are what decaying...? The wormholes??? People on the thread are saying they're being cancelled. You can do that with a skill in Survival or if you're a serpent.

Kiet

Disallowing wormholes in cities would be a terrible fix.

Allowing people to know when a wormhole is being cancelled like empowered totems and/or to get a name after would go a long way without stifling options for legitimate conflict.

Ahmet

Even worse than mainland is people cancelling warps on islands that affect no one, so by the time I fucking find them, I then have to get another serpent out there to help, and getting someone out there is hard enough, much less a willing serpent.

Grandue

Nataliia said:

I think the warp cancelling is driving a ton of us crazy. Considering the fact that there is an 800 credit artefact in the game to be able to use warps, having a ton of them suddenly boofed in a matter of days is beyond obnoxious. I really have been wondering myself if it's just someone cancelling them to be an dickwad, or if there's a point to them being cancelled. For reference, I'm going with the former.

I am in complete agreement with it being more difficult to cancel them or something to make this not be so easily a thing. I mean, people have been asking for more 1v1 conflict. Why not make cancelling a warp something that alerts people who are so high in vision, with a passive skill? Something like, "A prickling sensation tingles on the back of your neck, alerting you to the worm network being attacked at North of New Thera". Doesn't have to give a name, just alerts people that it's going on that way it at least gives people a chance to try to stop it. I'm sure there are plenty of warmongers (said fondly) that would jump at the chance to go stop it.

It is Targ trying to lash out at Ashtan but Ashtan moved the warp out of the city so all cities could use it (including Targ), so yeah it just ends up with everyone losing out and getting annoyed. #forumRP We'll be closing the hub if it keeps happening. We closed the warp hub in Ashtan for security reasons but a couple of generous souls wanted to open another one for people to use that wouldn't be tied to any faction so it was just a gift to everyone but if one person wants to ruin that for the rest of the people in the game we're not going to keep repairing the warps only to have them taken down. Really boring, uncreative, pointless, yeah, just people being trolls for the sake of being trolls. It is just taking up the time of two people who are trying to do something nice for people by creating a nice hub for everyone to use. Meh, more important things to focus on, just a shame that a single person can be so annoying to so many people and suffer no consequences for it. 

Dairon

My mapper doesn't auto update either. 

I made a couple of points earlier in the forums about this. 

1. Allow city/org/personal alerts for the cancellation of a warp so that measures can be taken to stop said behavior. It is not "conflict" whe one side is unable to figure out who the fuck cancelled a day's worth of work. 

2. Either (a) increase the time required to cancel a warp by an individual or (b) require two people (of one who must be a serpent) to focus on destroying one warp. 

I know it isn't a perfect comparison but think totems. Imagine if anyone and everyone could smudge/uproot them without any warnings. 

Splicing takes longer, needs two people, and wormholes are exponentially more vulnerable to attack. 

Dairon

Kayeil said:

I think if wormholes were no longer allowed in cities, that two serpents needed to cancel would be entirely viable. Do any cities even use wormholes in their own cities anymore? I think Hashan might in some locked off area, but I can't think of any elsewhere.

It would be interesting to allow single-person cancellations within one's city but require two people in all outside areas.

Grandue

Aodfionn said:

I dislike the idea of adding a requirement to "reduce the number of novices doing this," when I know for a fact that the Ashtani warps aren't getting dropped by novices. 

Aerek's post illustrates the most glaring problem with the proposal to require two serpents.

the idea of having cancelling take less time in a serpent's factional area is pretty nifty, though. 

I never said it was, and we know it isn't novices and I already tried diplomacy with Targ to in an IC way say, "It isn't a factional warp hub, you can stop being dicks to the world" but it didn't go far. 

Read my first and second post and see that in both of them I said that the serpents wouldn't have to be on both sides of the warp, completely solving this problem. 

Tahquil

Like ethereal shrouds and heron feathers, there should be single use warp items. They should be jelly worms and be part of the Halloween promo this year.

Quisse

Grandue said:

Aodfionn said:

I dislike the idea of adding a requirement to "reduce the number of novices doing this," when I know for a fact that the Ashtani warps aren't getting dropped by novices. 

Aerek's post illustrates the most glaring problem with the proposal to require two serpents.

the idea of having cancelling take less time in a serpent's factional area is pretty nifty, though. 

I never said it was, and we know it isn't novices and I already tried diplomacy with Targ to in an IC way say, "It isn't a factional warp hub, you can stop being dicks to the world" but it didn't go far. 

"Diplomacy." Oh Grandue. Don't. We were cool, but now you're just being silly. 

Kyttin

Warp wars are annoying, they're stupid. I like the idea of who ever created the warp getting the tingling sensation that was listed above. I'd definitely be ok with that!

However, on that note, I know Targossas has a limited amount of serpents, I'm not sure about the other cities as I rarely play in any of them. So limiting it to two serpents to get it done is annoying, as we cannot raise our own. I do think warps need to be looked at, I'll agree wholeheartedly about that. But either way, it's always a way to start things with another faction.

@Grandue , you can't tell me if a Targossian serpent isn't caught in Petra that certain people of your city wouldn't automatically attack them, so you cannot say you built it there out of the good of your heart otherwise you would've chosen a more neutral ground instead of a place that you where allied to. But either way, neither here nor there. I say look at warps, lets fix them. I'd like a better stance on warps and I'd love to raise more warps as well.

Aegoth

Who gives a shit about wormholes? In my day we WALKED to where we wanted to go. Kids these days... lazy millennials

Aodfionn

You didnt try diplomacy. I am calling bullshit. 

Such bullshit. Maybe you can enlighten us as to what you actually tried, and then let the masses see what qualifies as "diplomacy."

Jonathin

Aegoth said:

Who gives a shit about wormholes? In my day we WALKED to where we wanted to go. Kids these days... lazy millennialseptcentennials

Kyttin

Aodfionn said:

You didnt try diplomacy. I am calling bullshit. 

Such bullshit. Maybe you can enlighten us as to what you actually tried, and then let the masses see what qualifies as "diplomacy."

This, 100000% this.

Cooper

This would have been perfect to bring up when classleads were open!

An easy fix would be to make wormholes be created and destroyed in multiple parts, rather than in one go. What I mean is...

Grandue and I make a wormhole from NoT to Delos Bridge. It goes from being no wormhole, to 'wormhole in transition' phase, and after a 24 hour period goes to 'wormhole created'. During that 24 hours, someone can go through and destroy it.

Same with destruction. Worm cancel puts it into a 'being destroyed' phase, and after 24 hours if no one repairs it, it is destroyed.

Terrible explanation but it would work, and would also fix the stupidness that is putting wormholes in enemy cities/estates/order halls.