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Warp Trolls

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  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    Aegoth said:
    Who gives a shit about wormholes? In my day we WALKED to where we wanted to go. Kids these days... lazy millennials
    I play the game "7 movements of separation"... Wings... Warp.. everywhere but stupid islanders...



  • NataliiaNataliia Member Posts: 385 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Aegoth speak for yourself ya spring chicken! Warps were my original candy some 400 or some odd IG years ago!

    This just makes me mad I didn't buy wings instead, because no one can cancel the clouds (except maybe @Tecton, and that'd be sad. Good thing April Fools is over!)
    Kyttin
  • KyttinKyttin Member Posts: 348 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Nataliia said:
    @Aegoth speak for yourself ya spring chicken! Warps were my original candy some 400 or some odd IG years ago!

    This just makes me mad I didn't buy wings instead, because no one can cancel the clouds (except maybe @Tecton, and that'd be sad. Good thing April Fools is over!)
    Oh wow that would've been an awesome April Fools day, better than the whoever can drink the most becomes a god thing they pulled a couple of years back. For 1 day, all mode of artefact travel would be turned off. So many people would rage for the day.

  • DaironDairon Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kyttin said:
    Warp wars are annoying, they're stupid. I like the idea of who ever created the warp getting the tingling sensation that was listed above. I'd definitely be ok with that!

    However, on that note, I know Targossas has a limited amount of serpents, I'm not sure about the other cities as I rarely play in any of them. So limiting it to two serpents to get it done is annoying, as we cannot raise our own. I do think warps need to be looked at, I'll agree wholeheartedly about that. But either way, it's always a way to start things with another faction.

    @Grandue , you can't tell me if a Targossian serpent isn't caught in Petra that certain people of your city wouldn't automatically attack them, so you cannot say you built it there out of the good of your heart otherwise you would've chosen a more neutral ground instead of a place that you where allied to. But either way, neither here nor there. I say look at warps, lets fix them. I'd like a better stance on warps and I'd love to raise more warps as well.
    1. Targossas has a limited amount of serpents, so limiting it to two serpents to get it done is annoying. 
    I don't understand why you would be doing something annoying in the first place. Remember, there should be more _splicing_ done than cancelling anyways. 
    And it isn't a way to start things with another faction. Like I said, there is very little that makes this an involved conflict between two cities. The attacking city gets to attack. The defending city doesn't realize they're being attacked until the entire warp hub is gone (if timed correctly). 

    2. You can't tell me if a Targossian serpent isn't caught in Petra that certain people of your city wouldn't automatically attack them. 
    That's presupposing things. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can call bullshit without it actually happening before. I don't know if you are aware, but Petra isn't defendable anymore. (Ashtani don't get cause for someone hunting Petrans) 

    3. You annot say you build it there out of the good of your heart otherwise you would've chosen a more neutral ground instead of a place that you are allied to.
    Grandue and Ashtan leadership decided where the hub would be, I was the one that designed and asked Ashtani serpents to splice the hub. It was a perfectly neutral ground that had ZERO totems or defenses. I purposely did not splice any warps to enemy territory (one was to the Reaches, but it was a mistake that was not respliced). I don't see you hammering Mhaldor for having theirs on their red-fog place. I don't see why we should get hammered for choosing to build a hub for everyone to use in Petra. 

    I believe the point of the thread was that this warp cancelling nonsense is, in fact, nonsense. I couldn't give a rat's ass if the diplomatic gesture amounted to a middle finger and a fart in Targossas' general direction (not saying that's what happened. I don't know what happened). The warp splicing/cancelling mechanic is the problem and that's what we're talking about. 
  • DaironDairon Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Cooper said:
    This would have been perfect to bring up when classleads were open!

    An easy fix would be to make wormholes be created and destroyed in multiple parts, rather than in one go. What I mean is...

    Grandue and I make a wormhole from NoT to Delos Bridge. It goes from being no wormhole, to 'wormhole in transition' phase, and after a 24 hour period goes to 'wormhole created'. During that 24 hours, someone can go through and destroy it.

    Same with destruction. Worm cancel puts it into a 'being destroyed' phase, and after 24 hours if no one repairs it, it is destroyed.

    Terrible explanation but it would work, and would also fix the stupidness that is putting wormholes in enemy cities/estates/order halls.
    I think it's a pretty good idea. It would take way too long to finish an entire hub if it was one-at-a-time, but the mechanic would allow for interesting conflict.

    I tried to classlead it, but I was assured that the cancelling was player-caused only in the last day or so of the classlead period. Plus, I didn't really have an alternative that would have fixed the problem. 
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A middle finger and a fart would have be less offensive and would have spoken more highly of Grandue than what he actually "attempted."
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    QuisseHalosKyttin
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's really annoying, considering how much work goes into creating warp hubs and then someone just decides to mess it all up for usually no other reason than to be a huge inconvenience to others. Cooper's idea seems about the most viable so far. It at least gives people the opportunity to prevent wormholes being destroyed instantly, or created in places they shouldn't be.


    DaironNataliia
  • DaironDairon Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    In the grand scheme of things, a middle finger and a fart is also probably a much better response than starting a Worm Warp War. 

    All jokes aside - again, that isn't the point. We can stop the forum RP on both sides and deal with the issue and hand. Hopefully we'll have a good idea at the end of the discussion that can be IDEA'd and implemented to stop griefing. 

    And yes, with the mechanics that are currently in place, I would dare call this griefing. 

  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kyttin said:
    Warp wars are annoying, they're stupid. I like the idea of who ever created the warp getting the tingling sensation that was listed above. I'd definitely be ok with that!

    However, on that note, I know Targossas has a limited amount of serpents, I'm not sure about the other cities as I rarely play in any of them. So limiting it to two serpents to get it done is annoying, as we cannot raise our own. I do think warps need to be looked at, I'll agree wholeheartedly about that. But either way, it's always a way to start things with another faction.

    @Grandue , you can't tell me if a Targossian serpent isn't caught in Petra that certain people of your city wouldn't automatically attack them, so you cannot say you built it there out of the good of your heart otherwise you would've chosen a more neutral ground instead of a place that you where allied to. But either way, neither here nor there. I say look at warps, lets fix them. I'd like a better stance on warps and I'd love to raise more warps as well.
    Erm, I'd say they should have the right to be pissed off and attack someone for ruining the work and time it takes to set up a wormhole regardless if they made it for everyone to USE. Not for everyone to just say "fuck you" to their work and remove it so they have to put it up again. I don't see the issue in the placement. It's not illegal to enter Petra. You only get in trouble for killing their denizens. No different than Mhaldor putting warps on Mhaldor Isle that we can use as long as we don't cause issues. There's wormholes in all kinds of "protected" areas. If they put it in an area they weren't allied to, I'd still not fault them for wanting to attack and stop someone from destroying a warp hub they installed that anyone can use.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    Dairon
  • SkarashSkarash Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Well I was going to wait til classleads to bring up the issue, allowing me time to give this more thought, but since the thread is up I might as well put my thoughts here.  I think the heart of the problem is that it takes two serpents two splice a warp - which is extremely inconvenient, but it takes just one person with the survival skill to destroy it. One could argue that the serpents get the residual benefit of being able to travel around (anyone who's ever tried to pin down a serpent can attest to the convenience of warps) Having seen many warp cancellation wars before - I figured it would get old very quickly and we'd move on til the next person who has too much time on their hands comes along. While not yet convinced that a fix is required - I do have several ideas to address the problem.
       As mentioned earlier, one of the ideas is a serpent being able to 'empower' a warp such that they are warned when a warp is being destroyed. Some flavour text would be like 'you attune your body to vibrate in harmony with the wormhole'. And something like 'your body is wracked with a momentary spasm of pain, the warp at 'x' is under assault!" Another idea would be an artefact that would notify you if any warp in the area was being destroyed.  My concept would be some sort of crystal attuned to the area and carried on your person.  Yet another solution but on a different vein would be rather then requiring two serpents, change the code such that you can use an object (probably a crystal) as the focus to both splice and cancel a warp. Of these I actually favour the last the most.


    Kayeil
  • HalosHalos San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,469 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kayeil said:

    It's not illegal to enter Petra. You only get in trouble for killing their denizens.
    I don't care one way or the other about wormholes. I'd like to just point out that Petra is not mutually allied with anyone. No one "gets in trouble" for killing Petrans.



    Dairon
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Halos said:
    Kayeil said:

    It's not illegal to enter Petra. You only get in trouble for killing their denizens.
    I don't care one way or the other about wormholes. I'd like to just point out that Petra is not mutually allied with anyone. No one "gets in trouble" for killing Petrans.



    ******************[ Current Relations for the City of Ashtan]******************
    Org             Us                  Them
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Babel          Allied              Allied              
    Vastar         Allied              Allied              
    Thera          Allied              Allied              
    Mhaldor        Hostile             Neutral
    Eleusis        Hostile             Neutral
    Petra          Allied              Neutral
    Targossas      Hostile             Neutral
    Marinersguild  Hostile             Neutral
    Chaos          Allied              Allied              
    Consortium     Neutral             Allied              
    Savants        Neutral             Allied              
    Vanguard       Neutral             Allied 



    --- They may have not agreed to a mutual alliance, but I haven't heard Ashtan remove their protection of Petrans. Also, it's Kyttin who brought up this warp hub being in a "non-neutral" area. I don't think it being in Petra matters one bit, everyone has access to it.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,233 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    Why are you all being twats that someone said they attempted something and it didn't meet your standards? 

    Those horses are awfully high.


  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    I think Grandue is a pretty decent guy, and treats others well if they treat him well in return. I'm having my doubts on how disagreeable they're claiming he's been, or even outright denying that he tried at all.

    I should add IF he was a bit disagreeable in his demeanor, it would make me wonder how they've interacted with him and treated him in the past.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • QuisseQuisse Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 2016
    Kayeil said:
    I think Grandue is a pretty decent guy, and treats others well if they treat him well in return. I'm having my doubts on how disagreeable they're claiming he's been, or even outright denying that he tried at all.

    I should add IF he was a bit disagreeable in his demeanor, it would make me wonder how they've interacted with him and treated him in the past.

    His supposed conflict resolution this time around was...not decent, nor agreeable, nor actually diplomacy. Grandue is welcome to speak to this if he wants to. I just wasn't about to let it look like he's been the stand-up guy on this one. He hasn't. And I was perfectly willing to let that stay IC until he posted about his IC attempts at "diplomacy." 

    He was not "a bit disagreeable," and I have never treated him poorly in the past. Your assessment of the situation is just, in this case, entirely inaccurate. 

    ETA: not to mention that it has little to do with the topic at hand. If there's an issue with wormhole canceling mechanics, fine. But the forum roleplay is goofy - his attempts or non-attempts at IC resolution isn't relevant at all, not sure why he even brought it up.
    Kyttin
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    When I get off work I can post the logs. Then yoy can all judge, or not, yourselves. 
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Quisse said:
    Kayeil said:
    I think Grandue is a pretty decent guy, and treats others well if they treat him well in return. I'm having my doubts on how disagreeable they're claiming he's been, or even outright denying that he tried at all.

    I should add IF he was a bit disagreeable in his demeanor, it would make me wonder how they've interacted with him and treated him in the past.

    His supposed conflict resolution this time around was...not decent, nor agreeable, nor actually diplomacy. Grandue is welcome to speak to this if he wants to. I just wasn't about to let it look like he's been the stand-up guy on this one. He hasn't. And I was perfectly willing to let that stay IC until he posted about his IC attempts at "diplomacy." 

    He was not "a bit disagreeable," and I have never treated him poorly in the past. Your assessment of the situation is just, in this case, entirely inaccurate. 
    But perhaps consider how other leaders of Targossas have been whether privately or on public boards. It's possible he may have just decided you must be like the rest he's interacted with, which in that case he shouldn't be assuming, but there has been a lot of open and blatant hostility... and if Targossas is to blame for this warp conflict, he may be a bit testy as well. I'm not denying one can choose to be more civil even towards ones you don't like, but I'm not sure Targossas has given him much reason to be kind at this point. I'd be pretty upset knowing my fellow citizens were losing tons of work repeatedly, considering the time commitment it takes to keep putting those warps back up. I can't even stand implanting totems, which is a lot less time in comparison. The warp hub isn't there to exist for hostilities or only to benefit Ashtan, so yeah it sucks when they could've been doing any number of things, and yet decided to use their time to put up something other people can use. *shrug* I'd be a bit defensive and protective of my Ordermates if someone was going out of their way to destroy their work that wasn't harming anybody.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think you can easily get just as testy and hostile, Aodfionn. Maybe Grandue was, but I can't blame him if it's because of being pissed off at so much hard work being pissed away by another faction just because they can. Grandue certainly has his options in how he wishes to approach you all, and Dunn makes a fair point that Grandue isn't required to meet anyone's standards in how he reacts. Hell, I hope you'd be just as protective of your own citymates' work, especially if they did something that wasn't harming anybody and was there to be helpful to anyone who would like to use it.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • QuisseQuisse Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    You are just incorrect about this situation all around. Not much more to say about it.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If it's wrong to think Grandue doesn't have a right to react how he pleases, then I'd hate to be right.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No one is saying that, Kayeil. Strawman less, plz. 

    The contention comes from Grandue continuing a pattern of saying one thing on the forums that paints him in a flattering light, when the honest truth of the matter is conpletely different.  
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This has really gone from the main point about how dickish it is to keep cancelling these wormholes, and proposals on how to fix the system and make it an equal hassle on both ends.

    One of the proposals was treating it similarly to totem empowerment. However, fixing totems is still far easier than fixing wormholes, and can be done by one person. Perhaps cancelling wormholes should come with some sort of penalty to the player doing the cancelling. I'd thought maybe a massive willpower hit would be doable, but they could just kill themselves to reset it. Otherwise, it would be interesting if having a certain amount of willpower was required to do the cancelling, so one couldn't easily go on a cancelling spree by doing one after another immediately. Something along these lines might be fair considering putting the wormholes back up requires a large time commitment by two people, which isn't always easy to achieve.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Poor logs. First they get dragged IG, then now they are getting dragged here. It's a hard life for them. :(
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Grandue has the right to react as he wants, but so does Targossas. If they perceived an insult to them, well hack away at that hub.
    ShirszaeKyttin
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,047 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    Not sure why anyone thinks they should be entitled to the use of a warp, especially as a non Serpent that does 0 work to maintain the hub.

    Ashtan moved the hub because people were using it to warp into the city to afk radiance/displace people (looking at you, Proficy) - there was little other reasons to move it. When originally discussed, it was even shot down the first time, until more deaths happened.

    I wasn't a part of any cancelling, nor was I a part of any negotiations of a ceasefire. While I do agree that something can be done mechanically to make the situation more balanced in terms of time spent on offense/defense, I also feel like this needs pointed out.

    Targossas and Ashtan are enemies. While every attempt will be made to keep the situations fun for all involved, at the end of the day the onus is not on anyone in particular to "be the better man". This particular point not-withstanding, the public face that Grandue has portrayed (all the shaming of losing MoW, etc) - why should any Targossian be respectful when dealing with him? From an IC standpoint, any diplomacy from the North should be laughed at and cast aside. You don't get to sling mud then ask for a towel to clean your hands from the people you slung the mud at.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    TahquilSiduriKyttin
  • SzanthaxSzanthax San DiegoMember Posts: 1,906 @ - Epic Achaean
    speaking of city relations... how come no one has declared open war...  like ashtan v targ or targ v mhaldor or whatever.. .but only .. moghedu has declared war back?... .please...



  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If people weren't entitled to the privelege of warps, there wouldn't be an 800 credit cost for it, and I don't see any refunds being offered because people decide to be dicks and destroy it just to cause problems for people who've already taken a lot of time out of their lives to try and set this up and continually fix it.

    Also, where has Targossas been diplomatic? Using a log that was obtained OOC and posting about it on public and making fun of Grandue and Ashtan for it and still continually making fun of them, and Grandue is the only one slinging mud? At least they handled that with enough grace without anyone getting shrubbed, especially the person who sent that particular log after obtaining it OOC.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    Nataliia
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