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Ideas for gold sinks and IG credit prices
Skye
The Duchess Bellatere
This is some serious no bueno, and I'm saying it as a person who doesn't usually buy credits off the IG market. Actually I'm usually the one selling for a quick buck. The only times we've seen the CFS prices dip to anything 'reasonable' was when there was a gold auction. And even then that was only temporary as once all the bids resolved, all the losing bids started buying their credits back. I understand that IRE will probably never start selling IG credits as a means of establishing a baseline credit price because that would hurt their cash revenue, however I think some sort of incentive-based goldsink (as opposed to the current mostly optional, largely vanity projects) are in order.Worves said:Credits currently available for purchase:11 credits at 7000 gold per credit.9 credits at 7199 gold per credit.258 credits at 7200 gold per credit.63 credits at 7405 gold per credit.13 credits at 9999 gold per credit.15 credits at 15000 gold per credit.1 credits at 40000 gold per credit.82 credits at 50000 gold per credit.1 credits at 59985 gold per credit.1 credits at 63000 gold per credit.
Gold for SoW items
This actually technically exists, if you consider that crowns are a ship trade item. In return for some 70-80k gold and your precious sailing time, you can get a Mayan Crown. And that Mayan Crown can be used to purchase SoW stuff. there's really no reason why a direct conversion can't be done. At an exchange rate of say 100k gold per Crown, you can easily purchase those stat boosting elixirs and any number of largely vanity items. For sure this'll make the current price of Mayan Crowns depreciate considerably, but bearing in mind that those SoW items are only worth like a measly (1)5cr when traded in, this actually brings the IG price of the Crowns a little closer to reality.Using gold to discount OOC credit purchase
This probably sounds a bit more outrageous, but you could even encourage people to buy more credits. Iron Elite gives a 10% bonus on credit purchases. What if for a given amount of gold, you could buy a token or something that gives you a 5% discount that stacks with Iron Elite, or up to a 20% discount. It also (inadvertently) rewards people for time spent active and productive in game as well.Gold for Artefact Upgrade Tokens
Some people hoard credits for the artefact upgrade. What can be done is to sell Artefact Upgrade Token packages that are priced based on the average credit sale price. It then becomes in the player's best interests (however rich they are) to keep the credit market prices down. Ultimately buying the tokens will need to be cheaper than buying the credits directly, but the lower the market price is, the cheaper the upgrade tokens become. Upgraded artefacts can be traded in as per normal, given that the returned credits are bound, they have no bearing on the credit market proper.
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Comments
I don't believe every SoW item needs to be gold based though. Realistically, IRE is never going to do any of those other ideas either, I'm pretty sure.
I do agree we need more goldsinks though, gold is 100% useless except to buy curatives if you pvp/bash a lot and to buy credits from CFS. Everyone that wants a ship has one by now, and houses are the only other thing that costs remotely significant levels of gold.
I agree that ethereal shrouds should be purchasable with gold, but that has nothing to do with the credit market.
Expecting the credits to always sell for a certain range, and being upset when it goes beyond that, isn't exactly realistic. The credits will sell for what people will pay, the same as anything else in the game.
It's not ridiculous that a commodity's price is increasing as the demand for it increases. That's exactly what happens when a commodity becomes more scarce and more wanted.
Multiclass added an entirely new depth to the credit sink that the game has, and we're seeing that displayed in the credit values on market. They are selling faster, so they're being sold for more. It's a trend that isn't going to go away by adding more gold sinks to the game, imo.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
The best way to address inflation is to (ideally, regularly) introduce luxury items that people want but don't really need. This means Richie Richwize spends a few cool million while newbies aren't affected.
On the other hand, what's definitely not the best way to address inflation is adding things like ahmetite and the golden braid
The thing about currency circulation in Achaea is that, when it comes down to it, credits are still the preferred currency of trade. Among other things, they're still considered the safest mode of player-to-player transaction. Even though there is a 'trade' function, most people would still prefer to carry credit instead of cashgold. When the market's good, people tend to just buy out all the cheap credits and hold on to them because they're safer and more readily accessible than gold in your hand or bank. There's no penalty except perhaps a slight depreciation (which never happens for long, inflation on the other hand just keeps going and going and going...), unlike the bank fees which are really the pettiest kind of gold sink you could come up with.
Ultimately, until we can somehow get rid of the stigma of working with gold, people are still going to prefer converting coin to creds, driving the price up that way.
Ships are a cool luxury item that is gold only, we just need more stuff like that.
example: Last year I was looking for a talisman piece which a player contacted me saying he'd sell it to me for trade in value. I bought it and threw in a few extra credits for being kind. Turns out it was about 1/2 of what he said it was worth and when I told him scams are illegal he said tough luck. I issued, the admin upheld it. I got to keep the talisman piece and most of my credits back. Guy only kept the trade in value of edits and a slap on the wrist from the admin.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
The moment credit prices began to soar out of control was the introduction of multi-classing, and it has been getting steadily worse.
This shouldn't really surprise anyone. Credits are used for absolutely everything and now there is no point where a character will ever not need credits unless they chose to stop advancing or buying artefacts for their new classes. End-game characters capable of generating massive incomes now have as much need of credits as Novices in Minia do. People who buy credits from IRE with real money are now more likely to use their credits themselves rather than sell them on the market. The insanely high credit prices necessitate greater gold returns for large gold sink investments like ships and mining, which does exacerbate the problem, but also reduces the fun-factor for quest based payoffs and the like which have remained unchanged since they were first written.
I like multi-classing don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, that is the root of it. Gold sinks will help but something more than that needs to be done. Alas, I don't know what that something is.
Lusternia gave lots of monthly promotions and artifacts that produced things like commodities, curios (talismans, I think, in the Achaean translation), coins for spins on their version of the Wheel, etc. It has come to the point wherein these freebie-giving items gave way for people to get even more freebie-giving items, and now there are players who regularly get, on average, 2 million gold per RL week.
Surprisingly, goods (curatives, clothes, etc.) went into an even deeper price deflation (owing to the aforementioned freebie-giving items, plus the fact that the these same items allowed more people to get more tradeskills, which pumped a lot of supply into the market). On the other hand, the gold bloat drove up credit prices to somewhere along 33% every month.
The small price increases may seem small now, but it can quickly snowball into uncontrollable proportions. You'd want to take a close look, and address any problems that come up, before it comes to that point
PS Note, the 2 million gold I mentioned did not include the Wheel spins. I don't know if there's a difference in how the Achaean Wheel and the Lusternian one are coded in terms of prizes given, but the Lusternian one had really bad 'bad' spins, but also really good 'good' spins (very few 'just fine' spins). The really good spins coughed out expensive artifacts, which lessened the need for people to buy credits (previously the only way to access these artifacts). As a result, though, there are less credits circulating the market, which exacerbates the problem.
id say penwize alone probably bashes up the gold daily to cover most of the credits anyone puts up on CFS. There are just a ton more people buying credits with gold than there will ever be people selling credits for gold.
'waiting for prices to drop' is not a solution. Everyone is accumulating gold during that time so prices will never actually drop due to the small amount of credits even going on CFS being bought up immediately.
Is it not obvious that there are probably 3-4 people farming enough gold for 50cr a day and there is literally never going to be enough ooc credits bought for resale to satisfy that?
kind of surprised CFS still exists. I may have put 10cr in my lifetime on CFS and bought upwards of 10k off of it.. No idea where all the people selling credits are even coming from
I'm in the same position as Jhui. The amount of credits I've bought off of CFS vastly outweighs the number I've sold on there. I think the only time I've ever sold a serious number at any one time was during gold auctions, and I ended up buying them back (plus some extra because prices had dropped further) once the maximum amount I was willing to bid was exceeded.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
One of the biggest problems as I see it is the fact that we effectively have a two-tiered currency system. Gold and credits. Credits are, in a strange way, somewhat used to give value to gold (You got three credit's worth of gold that run, dragons can earn up to 50 credits an hour if they really bust their asses). Credits are used to buy the artefacts and are generally considered a secure investment. Effectively, since credits are used to buy the good stuff, credits are what has the biggest value.
Gold has become more recently used due to ships and houses other such gold sinks but that doesn't seem to have dissuaded the fact that credits are the default. In fact, outside of a credit's ability to gain lessons and ability to buy artefacts, credits are basically the dollar the the gold's penny.
Why put money in the bank when the bank actually takes money from you? Put it into credits and suddenly, even if you never buy artefacts or use them for lessons, you have an investment in the most secure financial item you could possibly have. Thieves can't take it, you can't lose them on death if you forget to put them in your pack, and a lot of people accept credits in exchange for X amount of gold.
Economics isn't necessarily intuitive, realise that people have different perspectives than your own.
Your question is basically the equivalent of Bill Gates asking why everyone doesn't have their own yachts. Think about the whys, whether that be differing motivations, lack of time, lack of capability (not everyone has dragon, the same artefacts as you etc etc.), or any other number of reasons.
I could be wrong. Absolutely. You could be wrong as well. No way to truly figure it out without numbers from admin so my point is purely driven off the way I assume it's playing out.
It's a pretty small player base so myself penwize seragorn or whoever averaging 50cr in gold a day can substantially change CFS the moment we are active