Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Ideas for gold sinks and IG credit prices

SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,056 @@ - Legendary Achaean
Worves said:
Credits currently available for purchase:
      11 credits at  7000 gold per credit.
       9 credits at  7199 gold per credit.
     258 credits at  7200 gold per credit.
      63 credits at  7405 gold per credit.
      13 credits at  9999 gold per credit.
      15 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
       1 credits at 40000 gold per credit.
      82 credits at 50000 gold per credit.
       1 credits at 59985 gold per credit.
       1 credits at 63000 gold per credit.

This is some serious no bueno, and I'm saying it as a person who doesn't usually buy credits off the IG market. Actually I'm usually the one selling for a quick buck. The only times we've seen the CFS prices dip to anything 'reasonable' was when there was a gold auction. And even then that was only temporary as once all the bids resolved, all the losing bids started buying their credits back. I understand that IRE will probably never start selling IG credits as a means of establishing a baseline credit price because that would hurt their cash revenue, however I think some sort of incentive-based goldsink (as opposed to the current mostly optional, largely vanity projects) are in order. 

Gold for SoW items

This actually technically exists, if you consider that crowns are a ship trade item. In return for some 70-80k gold and your precious sailing time, you can get a Mayan Crown. And that Mayan Crown can be used to purchase SoW stuff. there's really no reason why a direct conversion can't be done. At an exchange rate of say 100k gold per Crown, you can easily purchase those stat boosting elixirs and any number of largely vanity items. For sure this'll make the current price of Mayan Crowns depreciate considerably, but bearing in mind that those SoW items are only worth like a measly (1)5cr when traded in, this actually brings the IG price of the Crowns a little closer to reality. 

Using gold to discount OOC credit purchase

This probably sounds a bit more outrageous, but you could even encourage people to buy more credits. Iron Elite gives a 10% bonus on credit purchases. What if for a given amount of gold, you could buy a token or something that gives you a 5% discount that stacks with Iron Elite, or up to a 20% discount. It also (inadvertently) rewards people for time spent active and productive in game as well. 

Gold for Artefact Upgrade Tokens

Some people hoard credits for the artefact upgrade. What can be done is to sell Artefact Upgrade Token packages that are priced based on the average credit sale price. It then becomes in the player's best interests (however rich they are) to keep the credit market prices down. Ultimately buying the tokens will need to be cheaper than buying the credits directly, but the lower the market price is, the cheaper the upgrade tokens become. Upgraded artefacts can be traded in as per normal, given that the returned credits are bound, they have no bearing on the credit market proper. 


ShirszaeMelodieSarathaiMamiDochithaGamdenBoosteya
«13456712

Comments

  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    Ethereal shrouds should 100% be gold-purchasable. Their current price, and using a mayan crown, makes them functionally useless. If you're going to spend crowns for tracking veil users you might as well save 20 of them and buy a veil. The elixirs could be gold-based too.

    I don't believe every SoW item needs to be gold based though. Realistically, IRE is never going to do any of those other ideas either, I'm pretty sure.

    I do agree we need more goldsinks though, gold is 100% useless except to buy curatives if you pvp/bash a lot and to buy credits from CFS. Everyone that wants a ship has one by now, and houses are the only other thing that costs remotely  significant levels of gold.
    ShirszaeAntidasDaeirExelethril
  • CitrusCitrus Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Achaea's credit market has been pretty stable for years hasn't it though?  I'm pretty sure 6.5k has been the average for the last 5+ years.  Much better than Lust or Imperian with like 15k per credit.  It's a bit high this month because the March promotion isn't based on buying credits.  February's promotion dropped credit prices to 6.3k for a week or two.
    KatsuragiBoosteya
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The credit price spiked overnight, which pretty much means someone decided to dump a large amount of gold. It will balance out. All you have to do is not buy the credits at 7k, 6.8k, 6.6k, and it will fall back to 6.5k.

    ShirszaeNataliiaBoosteya
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Credit prices are more a function of gold generation than of gold circulation, and when the actual gold supply is infinite via bashing, you can't really create scarcity with new gold sinks unless they're mandatory gold sinks that everyone must pay into on a regular basis, since that actually hits folks' rate of wealth accumulation. Problem is, that just ends up hurting the same folks you're trying to help; the new and the poor.

    I agree that ethereal shrouds should be purchasable with gold, but that has nothing to do with the credit market.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,056 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It sorta partially does. What I've suggested so far is with the purpose of taking the big spenders out of the plain old credit market with incentives for them to put their gold elsewhere. Either by skipping the credit market and going straight to what they were intending to use their credits for (upgrade tokens/crowns), or by giving them a way to turn their time played (and gold earned during that time played) into an incentive for OOC creds. 


    Shirszae
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Citrus said:
    Achaea's credit market has been pretty stable for years hasn't it though?  I'm pretty sure 6.5k has been the average for the last 5+ years.  Much better than Lust or Imperian with like 15k per credit.  It's a bit high this month because the March promotion isn't based on buying credits.  February's promotion dropped credit prices to 6.3k for a week or two.
    When I started playing the game 5.5k per credit was an alright deal. When I stopped playing 7-8 months ago you could get credits for 6k or 6.1k if you were patient. Came back and you were lucky to get them for 6.6k. Now, 7k seems to be the going rate (during this promotion at least). I'm just not buying credits anymore unless I absolutely have to. It's semi-ridiculous.
    Huh. Neat.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,048 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This is part of a free market, though.

    Expecting the credits to always sell for a certain range, and being upset when it goes beyond that, isn't exactly realistic. The credits will sell for what people will pay, the same as anything else in the game.

    It's not ridiculous that a commodity's price is increasing as the demand for it increases. That's exactly what happens when a commodity becomes more scarce and more wanted.

    Multiclass added an entirely new depth to the credit sink that the game has, and we're seeing that displayed in the credit values on market. They are selling faster, so they're being sold for more. It's a trend that isn't going to go away by adding more gold sinks to the game, imo.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aerek said:
    Credit prices are more a function of gold generation than of gold circulation, and when the actual gold supply is infinite via bashing, you can't really create scarcity with new gold sinks unless they're mandatory gold sinks that everyone must pay into on a regular basis, since that actually hits folks' rate of wealth accumulation. Problem is, that just ends up hurting the same folks you're trying to help; the new and the poor.

    I agree that ethereal shrouds should be purchasable with gold, but that has nothing to do with the credit market.
    It doesn't have to be mandatory, though. Ships noticeably tanked the prices of credits for a while after release, and the gold auction did too while it was going on. You can't really say ships or  the stuff in the gold auction are mandatory.

    The best way to address inflation is to (ideally, regularly) introduce luxury items that people want but don't really need. This means Richie Richwize spends a few cool million while newbies aren't affected.

    On the other hand, what's definitely not the best way to address inflation is adding things like ahmetite and the golden braid :anguished: 
    ShirszaeRangorMamiDaeir
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,056 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    unfortunately, all those 'cool luxury items' tend to be from ooc purchases. See: globes, spin tokens, talisman promos.

    The thing about currency circulation in Achaea is that, when it comes down to it, credits are still the preferred currency of trade. Among other things, they're still considered the safest mode of player-to-player transaction. Even though there is a 'trade' function, most people would still prefer to carry credit instead of cashgold. When the market's good, people tend to just buy out all the cheap credits and hold on to them because they're safer and more readily accessible than gold in your hand or bank. There's no penalty except perhaps a slight depreciation (which never happens for long, inflation on the other hand just keeps going and going and going...), unlike the bank fees which are really the pettiest kind of gold sink you could come up with. 

    Ultimately, until we can somehow get rid of the stigma of working with gold, people are still going to prefer converting coin to creds, driving the price up that way.


  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I only prefer credits over gold because all the good stuff is purchased with credits, like artefacts and stuff.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:
    unfortunately, all those 'cool luxury items' tend to be from ooc purchases. See: globes, spin tokens, talisman promos.

    The thing about currency circulation in Achaea is that, when it comes down to it, credits are still the preferred currency of trade. Among other things, they're still considered the safest mode of player-to-player transaction. Even though there is a 'trade' function, most people would still prefer to carry credit instead of cashgold. When the market's good, people tend to just buy out all the cheap credits and hold on to them because they're safer and more readily accessible than gold in your hand or bank. There's no penalty except perhaps a slight depreciation (which never happens for long, inflation on the other hand just keeps going and going and going...), unlike the bank fees which are really the pettiest kind of gold sink you could come up with. 

    Ultimately, until we can somehow get rid of the stigma of working with gold, people are still going to prefer converting coin to creds, driving the price up that way.

    Ships are a cool luxury item that is gold only, we just need more stuff like that.
    Nataliia
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kiet said:
    Skye said:
    unfortunately, all those 'cool luxury items' tend to be from ooc purchases. See: globes, spin tokens, talisman promos.

    The thing about currency circulation in Achaea is that, when it comes down to it, credits are still the preferred currency of trade. Among other things, they're still considered the safest mode of player-to-player transaction. Even though there is a 'trade' function, most people would still prefer to carry credit instead of cashgold. When the market's good, people tend to just buy out all the cheap credits and hold on to them because they're safer and more readily accessible than gold in your hand or bank. There's no penalty except perhaps a slight depreciation (which never happens for long, inflation on the other hand just keeps going and going and going...), unlike the bank fees which are really the pettiest kind of gold sink you could come up with. 

    Ultimately, until we can somehow get rid of the stigma of working with gold, people are still going to prefer converting coin to creds, driving the price up that way.

    Ships are a cool luxury item that is gold only, we just need more stuff like that.
    Until you decide to want to use the homeport ability, so you non-decay/reset the figurehead, and then maybe you want to do ship combat or hunting seamonsters so you buy weaponracks (credits) and weapons that you might end up non-decaying.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Now if the costs for learning languages was a bit more realistic, I'd be happy to start dumping gold in that again. Eventually you just kind of hit a wall where it's unrealistically expensive. When I had played Aetolia they had all kinds of learnable languages (ones that weren't just the playable races, too) and it wasn't so hard to get into is as it is here. Granted, I'd be all for some sort of refund for those who spent a ton on it already if the prices were reduced.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    Nataliia
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,380 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ive also found credit trades have a admin level safety net relating to scams. Intentional misrepresentation of items in credit trades is issuAble and can result in divine punishment.

    example: Last year I was looking for a talisman piece which a player contacted me saying he'd sell it to me for trade in value. I bought it and threw in a few extra credits for being kind. Turns out it was about 1/2 of what he said it was worth and when I told him scams are illegal he said tough luck. I issued, the admin upheld it. I got to keep the talisman piece and most of my credits back. Guy only kept the trade in value of edits and a slap on the wrist from the admin.
    ShirszaeUtianimaNataliiaAziik
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,265 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rather than gold dumps, it'd be just as efficient and much easier to reduce the gold in the game by reducing rewards from bashing, questing, ship trading and so on. It would basically do the same thing as creating gold dumps (housing, improvements, mine salaries, rurin, etc.)
    image
    Sergius
  • SannaSanna Member Posts: 69 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2016
    It's not, because that would not change the relative difference between effort spent hunting and credits. The point of gold dumps is it allows those who hunt only for credits to have lower credit prices because people are buying other things instead of them.
    Rangor
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    Rangor said:
    Rather than gold dumps, it'd be just as efficient and much easier to reduce the gold in the game by reducing rewards from bashing, questing, ship trading and so on. It would basically do the same thing as creating gold dumps (housing, improvements, mine salaries, rurin, etc.)
    Thanks, but no thanks. That would just make everyone who is already rich stay rich, and everyone who is poor stay poor.
    QFT. Go to Aetolia if you wanna see how this idea pans out in reality. Just gives those who're rich, more of a reason to keep their gold, and thus continue to drive credit prices up.

  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2016
    I have recorded every single credit market purchase I have made since I started playing Achaea. Yes, really.

    The moment credit prices began to soar out of control was the introduction of multi-classing, and it has been getting steadily worse.

    This shouldn't really surprise anyone. Credits are used for absolutely everything and now there is no point where a character will ever not need credits unless they chose to stop advancing or buying artefacts for their new classes. End-game characters capable of generating massive incomes now have as much need of credits as Novices in Minia do. People who buy credits from IRE with real money are now more likely to use their credits themselves rather than sell them on the market. The insanely high credit prices necessitate greater gold returns for large gold sink investments like ships and mining, which does exacerbate the problem, but also reduces the fun-factor for quest based payoffs and the like which have remained unchanged since they were first written.

    I like multi-classing don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, that is the root of it. Gold sinks will help but something more than that needs to be done. Alas, I don't know what that something is.
    Blujixapug
  • WorvesWorves Member Posts: 31 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I think people retiring could also be pushing the market up just a bit. Older characters that come back with a lot of gold just splurge and buy a ton of credits to take with them while retiring, thus driving the market up more.
  • MorsulMorsul Member Posts: 112 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited March 2016
    As someone who's main IRE game is Lusternia (currently, our average credit price is 40k, up from 30k from February, up from around 25k from January), let me chime in:

    Lusternia gave lots of monthly promotions and artifacts that produced things like commodities, curios (talismans, I think, in the Achaean translation), coins for spins on their version of the Wheel, etc. It has come to the point wherein these freebie-giving items gave way for people to get even more freebie-giving items, and now there are players who regularly get, on average, 2 million gold per RL week.
     
    Surprisingly, goods (curatives, clothes, etc.) went into an even deeper price deflation (owing to the aforementioned freebie-giving items, plus the fact that the these same items allowed more people to get more tradeskills, which pumped a lot of supply into the market). On the other hand, the gold bloat drove up credit prices to somewhere along 33% every month.

    The small price increases may seem small now, but it can quickly snowball into uncontrollable proportions. You'd want to take a close look, and address any problems that come up, before it comes to that point

    PS Note, the 2 million gold I mentioned did not include the Wheel spins. I don't know if there's a difference in how the Achaean Wheel and the Lusternian one are coded in terms of prizes given, but the Lusternian one had really bad 'bad' spins, but also really good 'good' spins (very few 'just fine' spins). The really good spins coughed out expensive artifacts, which lessened the need for people to buy credits (previously the only way to access these artifacts). As a result, though, there are less credits circulating the market, which exacerbates the problem.
    Katsuragi
  • HellenHellen Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If the worst ever came to the worst the admin could always step in and put an infinite number of credits for 6k on the market and force a ceiling, but that doesn't strike me as the best solution. And as stated elsewhere, people are continually gaining gold so simply waiting for the price to drop won't work. It's not like players have needs for simple survival that would be a sink for gold or anything like that.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2016
    They could, but Sarapis has said time and time again (basically every time this topic comes up and people suggest exactly that) that they won't do that. Doesn't mean it won't ever happen, but it's unlikely.

    I'm in the same position as Jhui. The amount of credits I've bought off of CFS vastly outweighs the number I've sold on there. I think the only time I've ever sold a serious number at any one time was during gold auctions, and I ended up buying them back (plus some extra because prices had dropped further) once the maximum amount I was willing to bid was exceeded.
    Dochitha
  • HellenHellen Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Oh, I see. Well, it would have to be a really harsh situation for that kind of thing to happen anyway. It's difficult to talk about this kind of thing because even small tweaks have the possibility to really make waves in the system.

    One of the biggest problems as I see it is the fact that we effectively have a two-tiered currency system. Gold and credits. Credits are, in a strange way, somewhat used to give value to gold (You got three credit's worth of gold that run, dragons can earn up to 50 credits an hour if they really bust their asses). Credits are used to buy the artefacts and are generally considered a secure investment. Effectively, since credits are used to buy the good stuff, credits are what has the biggest value.

    Gold has become more recently used due to ships and houses other such gold sinks but that doesn't seem to have dissuaded the fact that credits are the default. In fact, outside of a credit's ability to gain lessons and ability to buy artefacts, credits are basically the dollar the the gold's penny.

    Why put money in the bank when the bank actually takes money from you? Put it into credits and suddenly, even if you never buy artefacts or use them for lessons, you have an investment in the most secure financial item you could possibly have. Thieves can't take it, you can't lose them on death if you forget to put them in your pack, and a lot of people accept credits in exchange for X amount of gold.
    JhuiAnariaElowin
  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 725 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Jhui, the people putting credits on market are similar to the people that make minerals for gold over bashing even though the gold output of the one is at least 4x larger for the average dragon.

    Economics isn't necessarily intuitive, realise that people have different perspectives than your own.
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Amranu said:
    Jhui, the people putting credits on market are similar to the people that make minerals for gold over bashing even though the gold output of the one is at least 4x larger for the average dragon.

    Economics isn't necessarily intuitive, realise that people have different perspectives than your own.
    Very true but all I have is intuition to go off of. I can't see who why or how many credits are going up on CFS so I'm definitely making an assumption here. Whether it's right or wrong, hopefully the admin can see
    image
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I believe Jhui makes a great point. Supply of credits on the market at what many consider "reasonable" prices are far lower than the demand for them. If Jhui, Penwize, or Seragorn bash at their fullest potential they can easily make cfs skyrocket.... then take into account if two or three of them are doing this at the same time (not saying they are at the moment). Then add in the demand from everyone else in the game, there's just no way the supply is there. Sure, if another good gold auction came up a bunch of hoarded or newly bought credits will come up and maybe lower the market for a limited time... but multiclass is still relatively newish, and people are still investing in this a lot... plus more people are getting into seafaring and learning it, AND there's more tradeskills open to everybody. Then take into account it was announced a while back there will be a new class. Now if this class is released this year, I am just not sure if the credit market will be going back to where it was any time soon. Also, since many of the purchased credits are being used for lessons or artefacts or permits, these are credits that are not going back into the market.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • AmranuAmranu Member Posts: 725 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 2016
    @Jhui, you're not thinking about the system, you're thinking about yourself.

    Your question is basically the equivalent of Bill Gates asking why everyone doesn't have their own yachts. Think about the whys, whether that be differing motivations, lack of time, lack of capability (not everyone has dragon, the same artefacts as you etc etc.), or any other number of reasons.
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dude I totally get what youre saying. My intuition just tells me that the rate of people selling credits is no where close to the rate of people trying to buy them off CFS.

    I could be wrong. Absolutely. You could be wrong as well. No way to truly figure it out without numbers from admin so my point is purely driven off the way I assume it's playing out.

    It's a pretty small player base so myself penwize seragorn or whoever averaging 50cr in gold a day can substantially change CFS the moment we are active 
    image
Sign In to Comment.