Predatory Advances

Qwyn

So, as a new player, I am frankly astounded at the amount of predatory behavior I've seen - at least five people have tried to proposition my character. One person has followed my character around, giving her unwanted gifts over and over. One has repeatedly invited my character to an Inn. One has just sent repeated tells about how my character looks (I do not have a slutty desc). 

This is absolutely uncool. 

New players should not be subject to this sort of treatment. It's really unappealing and disgusting. Is there anything I can do to stifle this sort of behavior? 

Sarathai

Issue them (harassment is harassment, period, even if I have a personal distaste for issuing) and enjoy the leafy greenery that will probably result.

Sylvaria

Tell them to stop IC then if they don't threaten to issue them OOC, I know how it feels since Sylv started as an unattractive horkval but still got stalked.

Kez

Horkval doesn't work, but simply saying no usually does.

Qwyn

It's an uncomfortable situation, and it rather mirrors RL sexual harassment - I'm new here. I don't want to make waves. I don't want to raise a fuss. Maybe I'm just imagining it. Issuing someone is so...harsh.  I don't want to be responsible for someone being banned. 

Tahquil

I would ISSUE ME with the person's name to alert the admin to the unwanted behaviour. They'll watch the person and ban them if they are pestering the newbs.

Sylvaria

Qwyn said:

It's an uncomfortable situation, and it rather mirrors RL sexual harassment - I'm new here. I don't want to make waves. I don't want to raise a fuss. Maybe I'm just imagining it. Issuing someone is so...harsh.  I don't want to be responsible for someone being banned. 

That's why you warn them first, after that they are begging for it.

Qwyn

What's ok to issue, though? Like, if someone is sending vaguely-creepy tells or giving my character gifts, they aren't breaking any rules. If I issue, I'm the one over-reacting. 

Klendathu

Qwyn said:

It's an uncomfortable situation, and it rather mirrors RL sexual harassment - I'm new here. I don't want to make waves. I don't want to raise a fuss. Maybe I'm just imagining it. Issuing someone is so...harsh.  I don't want to be responsible for someone being banned. 

The only person responsible for someone being banned for harassment is the harasser.

Austere

Don't bother warning someone of an impending issue. I always hated the "I'm issuing! " comments.  Make it apparent that you're not interested and if it continues, issue them.  You going ahead and reporting the issue now can prevent a lot of grief(and potential player loss) in the future.  No one should have to deal with that sort of behavior anywhere, let alone in Achaea. 

@Sarapis, @Tecton, @NoviceGriefSociety

Kaden

Qwyn said:

What's ok to issue, though? Like, if someone is sending vaguely-creepy tells or giving my character gifts, they aren't breaking any rules. If I issue, I'm the one over-reacting. 

Anything they persist on doing after you've told them off sounds about right. I wouldn't worry about making waves or being fussy. Anything that makes you uncomfortable is simply not cool.

Skye

These people are really disgusting. Personally I'd just totally name and shame. Especially if you've settled in with a city and House, your House superiors can be very helpful for this sort of thing as well. Your own city and housemates are best of course, but if you're looking to broaden your horizons you can also hit any older characters up too. Quite a lot of us ladies don't appreciate these Minia-stalking creeps.

Acting like not a newbie helps too. If you're new to Achaea but not new to IRE, when you demonstrate a certain amount of quick competence at the game, some of these predators tend to leave you alone. At least that's how it feels sometimes. Hardly anyone ever hits on my alts even when they're walking around Minia.

Aesi

No one hits on my alts. I am le ugly.

But in all seriousness, this type of harassment is horrible and I can't imagine how many people just quit instead of raising their voices, so good on you.

Qwyn

Yall have hit one nail on the head - I'm new to Achaea, but not to IRE, so my honed MUDspidey senses tingle when weirdos get weird. That said, I still feel very uncomfortable issuing or shaming people for being...I dunno. Sexual? This is a really uncomfortable issue.

Aereidhna

No usually works but I've found some people are also incapable of taking no as an answer. I'd do a very firm no (being kind about it is usually misinterpreted as encouragement, unfortunately) and if they persist, ignore or issue depending on your comfort level.

Ignore doesn't necessarily get them in trouble but prevents them from contacting you, issue might get them in trouble but probably also is doing a public favor for other new players.

Don't be afraid to reach out to novice, ambassador, and/or security aides in your House/city if you are overwhelmed, uncomfortable, or not sure how to proceed. Usually being spoken to by an aide will also make them stop. 

Edited to add: also wanted to say I hear you on how it mirrors RL harassment. This used to happen to me a lot and still does occasionally - sometimes I feel like I have a sign on my back saying 'I'm nice, play mind games with me.' It can be demoralizing, and saying "just say no and issue" doesn't really fully address the side of how it affects you as a new player and your character. Easy to say, harder to do. Especially because some of these people are excellent at guilt tripping and being manipulative and saying whatever they can to make you feel obligated to interact with them. So I totally hear and get how difficult it is, and I don't think any of these solutions are easy options by any means. But you are not alone in dealing with it and it won't reflect badly on you if you choose to take action. 

Aesi

That's the point. No one should be able to make you feel like that. Ingame or out. No means no in Achaea too.

Aereidhna

Aesi said:

That's the point. No one should be able to make you feel like that. Ingame or out. No means no in Achaea too.

Ideally yes but - and my edit maybe addresses this more from a woman's perspective - a lot of people don't respect no and also know how to manipulate and lay on guilt trips to try and make people feel like they shouldn't report or should continue interacting. So sometimes "just say no" works and sometimes it is more difficult than it sounds. 

Aegoth

When all else fails, holocaust

Kaden

Qwyn said:

Yall have hit one nail on the head - I'm new to Achaea, but not to IRE, so my honed MUDspidey senses tingle when weirdos get weird. That said, I still feel very uncomfortable issuing or shaming people for being...I dunno. Sexual? This is a really uncomfortable issue.

Nothing wrong with being sexual. There is however everything wrong with people who persist even after they know you're not interested or go full on creepy immediately. There is a difference and although it helps if you do communicate how you feel clearly, the fact that they don't seem to care about whether or not the focus of their unwanted attention is comfortable or not is ultimately on them. 

Antidas

Name and shame. Griefing novice predators and mudsexers is a favorite past time of mine.

On a more serious note, absolutely issue the fuck out of them. That kind of behavior is unfortunately a serious problem for Achaea, and I know for a fact that @Sarapis and @Tecton have absolutely no patience for it. If they're doing it to you, they've probably done it to someone else too who was probably new to IRE and didn't know to ask people about it on forums, so instead just quit the game.

Aesi

Aereidhna said:

Aesi said:

That's the point. No one should be able to make you feel like that. Ingame or out. No means no in Achaea too.

Ideally yes but - and my edit maybe addresses this more from a woman's perspective - a lot of people don't respect no and also know how to manipulate and lay on guilt trips to try and make people feel like they shouldn't report or should continue interacting. So sometimes "just say no" works and sometimes it is more difficult than it sounds. 

You won't get an argument here. No means no, but I totally get that some people see it as a "Challenge" or "someone being coy" etc.

I don't have a lot of perspective or right to talk on this matter as it largely happens to women more than men, but I feel for all of you. It's horrible, Achaea wise it hurts the game by turning away a percentage of people and it ultimately does not portray a good view of the game to newcomers.

However

May Thoth have mercy on their souls if @Lorielan finds out about it.

Kaden

Qwyn said:

What's ok to issue, though? Like, if someone is sending vaguely-creepy tells or giving my character gifts, they aren't breaking any rules. If I issue, I'm the one over-reacting. 

Pretty sure those count under sexual harassment as per HELP HARASSMENT. Reading that might help you learn about some of the tools at your disposal. Bringing it up with authority types may help too if you really feel uncomfortable handling it on your own.

Siduri

Like in real life, there's nothing wrong with being sexual. Like in real life, though, picking a complete stranger out of the blue to proposition is illegal. Issue yourself with the situation, and the admins will investigate and the person will never know it was you.

And like @Antidas said, drop us a private message.

Skye

I'll be honest. I don't know if this happens in other IRE games but the sexalt and newbie predator thing in Achaea is practically an epidemic. You only need to go to the Minia Archway, or south of that, or to the brass lantern inn to encounter (allegedly) female characters with sexually suggestive descriptions and very little worn. They get male clientele but they also like pretending to be lesbians.

There was a time when there were stories of these sorts of characters actually belonging to an actual organised prostitution ring in the game and would cater to these predators (who probably from then on assumed that anything out of Minia was fair game). It got so bad that at least one House would actually ban their novices from hanging around the Archway for fear of them being mistaken for hookers or moonlighting as one.

Of course players are free to roleplay as slutty as they want, but when the bulk of these are hanging around newbie areas, I think it really affects the image that the game intends to convey. Especially for genuine new players who are barely settled in and one of their first interactions are with someone whose motto is "A satisfied customer is the best promotion." and it's not Sarapis. >_>

There are actual adult MUDs for that sort of thing. a place where one can feel free to add 'has a dong with the girth of a beer can' in their public description and not get banned. I just wish they'd take their shenanigans there.

Khairt

If an interaction makes you uncomfortable, you can ignore them. That's what the command is for, after all. Continued aggravation is harassment after that point. I've alted quite a bit here, and I've been propositioned three times that I remember. Each time, a "No thanks!" was sufficient to cease the interaction. If they get pushier, and try to continue past the Ignore feature, hey man; shout it out.

Aylek

If I got harassed when I joined I would have asked very bluntly over the Newbie channel, naming and shaming, how to get said person to stop making sexual or predatory advances against me.

Lorielan

@Qwyn If a player is repeatedly bothering you, your best and first option is to make use of the IGNORE command. This will almost always be the first advice given by the administration when one issues regarding harassment type behaviour. This reaction is entirely in your control, is your decision to lift at any time, and basically let's you say that you've had enough and do not wish to deal with a person anylonger. HELP IGNORE has all the details here.

If unpleasantness continues despite such measures, Issues are then the next resort. For advice ISSUE ME works well.

Ismay

I bet I know who this guy is...

Mami

I've always dealt with this by using broken English which works most of the time. On another character, I was trapped in a sub house with no visible exits, I just asked for a brazier and told everyone who it was and warned the city he was applying to.

Tecton

Yeah, we've got very little (read: none) patience for players makings repeated advances on newbies. Feel free to drop me a message if you're getting repeated unwanted advances from people and I'll look into it!

Alaskar

I guess I'm a little late, but that type of behavior is completely unacceptable. If you've made it clear that you want nothing to do with said character, and that their attention makes you uncomfortable, then you should almost certainly name and shame, ignore, and issue. Ask'em, tell'em, make'em. If you've told this person," hey, I'm not comfortable with this, could you ease off?" or something similar, and they persist, they on't deserve second or third chances. Now, if you've coyly resisted him, etc., then it may be a little different, but you know whether or not you've done that, and it doesn't sound as if you have.

Basically, there's no excuse for that type of behavior, and no one would ever consider it stirring stuff up or causing a fuss if you did everything in your power to protect yourself and prevent actual newbies from ever encountering that stuff.