Forums Home Forum Rules Achaea.com Lore Wiki Vote for Achaea! IronRealms.com
Home› Everything Achaea› North of Thera

Ship Changes!

12467…11

Comments

  • HalosHalos The Reaches
    Valkyn said:
    @Kellonius you talk as if you think most cities have harbours... only Ashtan and Targossas do.
    Time to move! :)

    A frenzied cleric screams, "Like more than one halo!"
  • AereidhnaAereidhna Dallas
    I personally liked the idea of ship returning in harbour because I could start a ship trade, come back to the mainland to help a novice, then return to Karbaz or wherever to finish the trade. The only time I did anything remotely close to 'abusing' it was when I parked my second ship on ilyrean while hunting to dragon. The changes to ship return basically meant that (if they'd stayed in effect) I would have just had to token to the mainland, help a novice, and kill myself and pray to sea spirits to continue a ship trade from Karbaz or Umbrin or wherever. That, to me, is a pain in the ass and also doesn't actually address the real issues with ship return that I think they were trying to address.

    As far as not using ships to idle safely, I do agree that more can and should be done to encourage people not to spend all their time in Achaea afk. That said, I honestly think cracking down on auto-fishing would be a more accurate way of doing that (meaning people who don't at the very least cast line manually). Ships are an extremely expensive investment, and unlike houses, they can't even be totemed for security. It's a bit silly to me that this change would have made it safer to sit in Cyrene working on designs than to sit on my ship. The biggest thing this made me want to do was limit other people from using my ships or allowing their friends to board and go idle, thus ironically making seafaring (for me at least) more of a solitary venture rather than less of one.

    I'm glad admins are revisiting these ideas and hope to see better solutions in the future. I'm also really really grateful to the admins for all the backend work they've put into making seafaring fun.
  • ValkynValkyn
    edited November 2015
    I think Hashan would actually be harder to justify... unless we're getting airships. We're surrounded by a giant crevasse now, remember? Having to protect guards at Tasur'ke is not the same thing as having a city harbour.

  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    edited November 2015
    Can Cyrene annex the Aalen, so we can claim the harbor properly? 

    ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US. 



  • HyperlithHyperlith San Fierro area, San Andreas
    Exelethril said:
    Ships are quite fine as they are now, I personally don't see the problem of providing a safe area for people to linger in, if they don't want to interact with other people.

    Relevant :


    Extra funny because your location is Canada. :D

  • EldEld
    Razzlo said:
    Oh, I think housing is unsafe too...which is why I preferred ships until today. It just makes sense to stop ships from being fortresses of solitude for the case of running from conflict and such. I think the changes went too far and so did the administration it looks like. I think that there is a happy medium in there where ships are no longer complete places of safety while in dock and one where ships are no longer a portal to be used to outside islands all willy nilly like.

    I would suggest making gare from far out in the wilderness not possible (to force people to use expensive tokens) . Making ship return cost an arm and a leg or limit it per month or something like that so people don't just park for comms and hunting spots.

    As far as the fortress thing. I am not sure how to balance that out. I think if they want to keep going down that path...nonprisming being allowed for cabin housing and some added defense against intruders would be a good start.


    Gare already doesn't work from the outer islands (i.e., any you can't reach by ferry). You can get basically the same functionality with the bronze token from the SoW, but with a 1-hour cooldown between uses.
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!
    Eld said:
    Razzlo said:
    Oh, I think housing is unsafe too...which is why I preferred ships until today. It just makes sense to stop ships from being fortresses of solitude for the case of running from conflict and such. I think the changes went too far and so did the administration it looks like. I think that there is a happy medium in there where ships are no longer complete places of safety while in dock and one where ships are no longer a portal to be used to outside islands all willy nilly like.

    I would suggest making gare from far out in the wilderness not possible (to force people to use expensive tokens) . Making ship return cost an arm and a leg or limit it per month or something like that so people don't just park for comms and hunting spots.

    As far as the fortress thing. I am not sure how to balance that out. I think if they want to keep going down that path...nonprisming being allowed for cabin housing and some added defense against intruders would be a good start.


    Gare already doesn't work from the outer islands (i.e., any you can't reach by ferry). You can get basically the same functionality with the bronze token from the SoW, but with a 1-hour cooldown between uses.
    @Eld gare works from the outer islands wilderness, which is actually quite actively used by the people that figured it out
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • ZukoZuko
    Sent a couple ideas on ship return in:

    1.) Only family and spouse to the ship owner can ship return to his or her boat.

    2.) A maximum of three captains per ship allowed to set their ship return there.

    I admit lending my ship to city-wide shipreturn abuse, but honestly if it means keeping ship return how it is I'll happily limit it down to just a select few (or family).
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    @Zuko What does family entail? Because for some families, that could very well mean half the city anyway

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • ZukoZuko
    edited November 2015
    Shirszae said:
    @Zuko What does family entail? Because for some families, that could very well mean half the city anyway
    Yeah I thought about that. But I figured immediate and grandchildren. So technically it could still be massive but family is family in the end. Ideally people aren't just abusing bloodline for this reason but perhaps the family is not a viable option. Maybe only immediate is the best option (parents, siblings, children).

    Edit: In the end the RP of a family ship in my mind is more important than nerfing an overused ability. RP is already becoming scarce enough
  • KasyaKasya Tennessee
    Taraus said:
    Ships are for sailing.
    I don't want to learn how to sail, I just want to get a ship so I can give it a fun name.   >:)

    Seriously though, I kind of liked the changes, but I also like to be able to use ships as meeting places. They're fun for that. 
  • GreysGreys
    Eh, if people were having to interact with people then veil's wouldn't exist. Always is precedent that people can pay to have some degree of isolation.
  • KietKiet
    edited November 2015
    No offense, but some of these replies are pretty heavy overreactions.

    Shipreturn nerf is hard to balance because you don't want people getting stuck without their ship or whatever. You can just token from islands, though, can't you? That's not exactly a big danger of being marooned. If not, just add that functionality in and voila. The bigger issue is you can lose access to your ship.

    I guess you could make shipreturn just leave you at like 1% endurance/willpower, but that's really not that much of a problem for some classes. Leaving the character heavily weakened in some way to actively discourage it seems the best way about it at either rate.

    Prism change is whatever, how often are you going to get prismed on, realistically? Who's going to bother going to every harbour in the game and trying to prism to everyone on QW?

    Re: housing not being that safe: It's perfectly safe as long as you don't have an hour long timeout and you actually move when people prism to you. Sometimes people will get in anyway, oh well. What's the big deal? If you want to store rare valuables or something yeah they might be at risk, but there's ways to mitigate that risk to practically nil. It's not like you even have any area wide abilities left except, what, radiance? Cities have no real reason to yell at people who get broken into anymore.
    Kayeil said:
    Reiloch said:
    I honestly can't fathom why these changes have had such a negative reaction from so many people. These all seem like overwhelmingly positive tweaks to me. What are all these 'functionalities' that people are losing? Because the only thing I can see is that ships stop being a safe place to isolate yourself from the world, which I don't really think there should be a place for in the game anyways. :confused:
    Not everyone plays to be a social character, and even admins have recognized this. You can come here to be a social butterfly. You can sail all by yourself for hours on end or hunt by yourself and never speak to a single person, and it's fine. Nothing in the game says we HAVE to make ourselves available to everyone else every single second we're logged in.
    I don't mean this in a "stop playing then" way, but honestly curious: If you're not playing to be at least a vaguely social character, why play a game that is inherently social? This isn't exactly the most thrilling solo game out there, almost everything is structured around interaction with other people.

    Not to mention you can be perfectly anti-social on mainland, no one's forcing you to chat up everyone you run into. Nothing about being on the mainland says you have to make yourself available to anyone.
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    I can see the good and bad of both of these changes. I mean, a ship should not be a portal to hunting grounds and neither should it be a place where you can escape from the world.
    But why not? If I'm in a mood where I want to be here and work on things in a solitary manner or whatever, then I should be allowed to. No one should be forced into a position where they have to potentially interact and deal with others 100% of the time without having to qq.
    This. Name me a single successful MMO with no safe zone. I can't think of one.
    Ultima Online? One of the first and most impactful MMOs of the genre. When they added in the safe zones is when the game started to decline, even.




  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    Valkyn said:
    Worked out I've spent around 2000 credits on Valkyn's ship, seafaring and accessories, that's not including maintenance costs or anything. That is $600 US? on the website. If they removed half the function of veils with no refund people would be unhappy, how is this different? Hell, you can actually trade veils in for 2/3 of the credits back.

    The cost of ships is obscene to mess with their function in that way. Arguing they might be better x way is one thing, but arguing they should be changed to that way with no refund for those of us who valued those functioned is just awful.

    At the moment you're safer having a meeting or a party or something in the middle of the bloody road than on your own property, because of the security risks involved and the way cities come down on people who let in intruders. That's kind of nuts.
    Because using the ship as a safe room is not an intended function. The intended function was to expand the game and provide access to new islands. Its like when they removed illusions and didn't give refunds on the lifevision mask, because the intended function is to give the lifevision DEF, and not anti-illusion.
    image
  • ElowinElowin
    @Kiet You cannot token from islands, no. You have to be on a ship.
  • SiduriSiduri
    edited November 2015
    I'm not realistically bothered about the prisming. It is trouble, but it also has plenty of utility, like raiding an ambushed pirate's ship, etc.
    Put up commscreen and chances are nobody will ever attempt to prism in. HOWEVER, I agree there needs to be new upgrades available to mitigate that, like totems, etc.

    Shipreturn, I find it problematic. I understand that there is plenty of abuse, though mining has diminished it greatly. I suggest doing as @Shirszae said and tie it to figurehead power BUT allow one (clearly identified) shipreturn when the figurehead is gone to sail it out of harbour. If the ship is at sea, make the shipreturn not use  figurehead power. I don't think we need it to be too massive, but sufficiently that eventually, you'll have to sail out and charge.

    (Also, as acting captains, we could be able to grant our guests a one-time shipreturn permission for emergencies, without necessarily messing up their set shipreturn. Just this would facilitate group sailing, as some people are often forced to go back to mainland for various duties.)

    image
  • AinlyAinly
    Valkyn said:
    Worked out I've spent around 2000 credits on Valkyn's ship, seafaring and accessories, that's not including maintenance costs or anything. That is $600 US? on the website. If they removed half the function of veils with no refund people would be unhappy, how is this different? Hell, you can actually trade veils in for 2/3 of the credits back.

    The cost of ships is obscene to mess with their function in that way. Arguing they might be better x way is one thing, but arguing they should be changed to that way with no refund for those of us who valued those functioned is just awful.

    At the moment you're safer having a meeting or a party or something in the middle of the bloody road than on your own property, because of the security risks involved and the way cities come down on people who let in intruders. That's kind of nuts.
    Safer having a meeting in the middle of the road than your own property?  You don't see how you're exaggerating here?
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    edited November 2015
    The tears because of said changes just make me want to dance.


    Your tears seemed to work though because they changed it back to the stupid old way.


    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • ElowinElowin
    edited November 2015
    Ainly said:
    Valkyn said:
    Worked out I've spent around 2000 credits on Valkyn's ship, seafaring and accessories, that's not including maintenance costs or anything. That is $600 US? on the website. If they removed half the function of veils with no refund people would be unhappy, how is this different? Hell, you can actually trade veils in for 2/3 of the credits back.

    The cost of ships is obscene to mess with their function in that way. Arguing they might be better x way is one thing, but arguing they should be changed to that way with no refund for those of us who valued those functioned is just awful.

    At the moment you're safer having a meeting or a party or something in the middle of the bloody road than on your own property, because of the security risks involved and the way cities come down on people who let in intruders. That's kind of nuts.
    Safer having a meeting in the middle of the road than your own property?  You don't see how you're exaggerating here?
    I can see how she might think that. Not everyone is going to react quickly to prevent a prism. If you're inside your house, the other parties might not be able to move at all, since there's a locked door preventing movement. Once the raiders are in, there's a small enclosed area that not everyone can open the exit to (gangplank) and not everyone might know how to use.

    On a road, however, you can just run and none of your valuables are vulnerable.

    Edit: Not saying I agree, just rationalizing her argument.
  • AinlyAinly
    Elowin said:
    Ainly said:
    Valkyn said:
    Worked out I've spent around 2000 credits on Valkyn's ship, seafaring and accessories, that's not including maintenance costs or anything. That is $600 US? on the website. If they removed half the function of veils with no refund people would be unhappy, how is this different? Hell, you can actually trade veils in for 2/3 of the credits back.

    The cost of ships is obscene to mess with their function in that way. Arguing they might be better x way is one thing, but arguing they should be changed to that way with no refund for those of us who valued those functioned is just awful.

    At the moment you're safer having a meeting or a party or something in the middle of the bloody road than on your own property, because of the security risks involved and the way cities come down on people who let in intruders. That's kind of nuts.
    Safer having a meeting in the middle of the road than your own property?  You don't see how you're exaggerating here?
    I can see how she might think that. Not everyone is going to react quickly to prevent a prism. If you're inside your house, the other parties might not be able to move at all, since there's a locked door preventing movement. Once the raiders are in, there's a small enclosed area that not everyone can open the exit to (gangplank) and not everyone might know how to use.

    On a road, however, you can just run and none of your valuables are vulnerable.

    Edit: Not saying I agree, just rationalizing her argument.
    Danger is what creates excitement.  Complete safety is boring.
  • KietKiet
    edited November 2015
    It's a bit of a stretch. Have everyone follow you, move through the door on prism. If they do get in you have a totem.
  • RuthRuth Singapore
    This thread makes me feel much better about having a bed on my ship. Much, much better. Even though it hurt buying one in the first place. Although beds don't prevent prisms.

    Also, I like my cladestine meetings on ships!
    "Mummy, I'm hungry, but there's no one to eat! :C"

     

  • ElowinElowin
    Kiet said:
    It's a bit of a stretch. Have everyone follow you, move through the door on prism. If they do get in you have a totem.
    The crux of the argument is that not everyone is going to react quickly. That includes following. People will go linkdead and lose their follow, too. By the internal logic of the argument, roads would be safer, because your valuables aren't compromised by human error/ignorance.
  • KietKiet
    That's why you have them stay following you from the start. If you're disconnected you stay following unless you get dropped from the game too I'm pretty sure.

    Let's not hide that it's an exaggerated argument, that does no one any credit.
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    People who keep referencing losing the ability to have meetings on their ships, seem to be forgetting a few things.

    No one can see where your ship is harbored at, nor when you are on it. Putting up commscreen basically is a free gem, so you're not even visible on QW. It's not as bad of a change as people are making it out to be!




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • TrevizeTrevize
    edited November 2015
    Sarapis said:
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    I can see the good and bad of both of these changes. I mean, a ship should not be a portal to hunting grounds and neither should it be a place where you can escape from the world.
    But why not? If I'm in a mood where I want to be here and work on things in a solitary manner or whatever, then I should be allowed to. No one should be forced into a position where they have to potentially interact and deal with others 100% of the time without having to qq.
    This. Name me a single successful MMO with no safe zone. I can't think of one.
    I'm not expressing an opinion one way or another here, but Eve Online is the only one I can think of in the West. It's quite likely there are Korean or Chinese MMOs with no safe zones, but they're a very different audience.
    Docking up in npc stations in highsec.
    Current scripts: GoldTracker 1.2, mData 1.1
    Site: https://github.com/trevize-achaea/scripts/releases
    Thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4064/trevizes-scripts
    Latest update: 9/26/2015 better character name handling in GoldTracker, separation of script and settings, addition of gold report and gold distribute aliases.
This discussion has been closed.