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Ship Changes!

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  • RazzloRazzlo
    Oh, I think housing is unsafe too...which is why I preferred ships until today. It just makes sense to stop ships from being fortresses of solitude for the case of running from conflict and such. I think the changes went too far and so did the administration it looks like. I think that there is a happy medium in there where ships are no longer complete places of safety while in dock and one where ships are no longer a portal to be used to outside islands all willy nilly like.

    I would suggest making gare from far out in the wilderness not possible (to force people to use expensive tokens) . Making ship return cost an arm and a leg or limit it per month or something like that so people don't just park for comms and hunting spots.

    As far as the fortress thing. I am not sure how to balance that out. I think if they want to keep going down that path...nonprisming being allowed for cabin housing and some added defense against intruders would be a good start.


  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    I can see the good and bad of both of these changes. I mean, a ship should not be a portal to hunting grounds and neither should it be a place where you can escape from the world.
    But why not? If I'm in a mood where I want to be here and work on things in a solitary manner or whatever, then I should be allowed to. No one should be forced into a position where they have to potentially interact and deal with others 100% of the time without having to qq.
    This. Name me a single successful MMO with no safe zone. I can't think of one.
    I don't even see why it's an issue. Other IRE games have them. It's part of Aetolia's end game.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • RazzloRazzlo
    Kayeil said:
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    I can see the good and bad of both of these changes. I mean, a ship should not be a portal to hunting grounds and neither should it be a place where you can escape from the world.
    But why not? If I'm in a mood where I want to be here and work on things in a solitary manner or whatever, then I should be allowed to. No one should be forced into a position where they have to potentially interact and deal with others 100% of the time without having to qq.
    This. Name me a single successful MMO with no safe zone. I can't think of one.
    I don't even see why it's an issue. Other IRE games have them. It's part of Aetolia's end game.
    Lairs!
  • ElowinElowin
    I could live with the prism change. That shipreturn thing had to go, tho. Not trying to h8 on the admin, I still <3 y'all.
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!
    Razzlo said:

    I would suggest making gare from far out in the wilderness not possible (to force people to use expensive tokens) . Making ship return cost an arm and a leg or limit it per month or something like that so people don't just park for comms and hunting spots.



    the gare thing has been proposed a few times, but it'd cripple chenubian wings owners (unless those are made to be useable everywhere they lead to), and gare has the obvious checks to allow gare from the islands it goes to (polyargos, ulangi...)
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • RazzloRazzlo
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    Oh, I think housing is unsafe too...which is why I preferred ships until today. It just makes sense to stop ships from being fortresses of solitude for the case of running from conflict and such. I think the changes went too far and so did the administration it looks like. I think that there is a happy medium in there where ships are no longer complete places of safety while in dock and one where ships are no longer a portal to be used to outside islands all willy nilly like.

    I would suggest making gare from far out in the wilderness not possible (to force people to use expensive tokens) . Making ship return cost an arm and a leg or limit it per month or something like that so people don't just park for comms and hunting spots.

    As far as the fortress thing. I am not sure how to balance that out. I think if they want to keep going down that path...nonprisming being allowed for cabin housing and some added defense against intruders would be a good start.


    A better solution could be doing what they do with multi-class. Can't change your class for X amount of minutes after being involved in conflict. So can't board a ship after X amount of minutes of being attack and/or attacking or defiling.

    Not everyone uses ships to get away from PK consequences, actually a lot of us don't at all.
    Makes sense. Razzlo is far from a player involved in any sort of PK. He actually has 0 Player Kills :D . When he is on a ship to 'escape'...he is there to avoid people. However, I can see why admins would not want people to hide there.
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Razzlo said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    Oh, I think housing is unsafe too...which is why I preferred ships until today. It just makes sense to stop ships from being fortresses of solitude for the case of running from conflict and such. I think the changes went too far and so did the administration it looks like. I think that there is a happy medium in there where ships are no longer complete places of safety while in dock and one where ships are no longer a portal to be used to outside islands all willy nilly like.

    I would suggest making gare from far out in the wilderness not possible (to force people to use expensive tokens) . Making ship return cost an arm and a leg or limit it per month or something like that so people don't just park for comms and hunting spots.

    As far as the fortress thing. I am not sure how to balance that out. I think if they want to keep going down that path...nonprisming being allowed for cabin housing and some added defense against intruders would be a good start.


    A better solution could be doing what they do with multi-class. Can't change your class for X amount of minutes after being involved in conflict. So can't board a ship after X amount of minutes of being attack and/or attacking or defiling.

    Not everyone uses ships to get away from PK consequences, actually a lot of us don't at all.
    Makes sense. Razzlo is far from a player involved in any sort of PK. He actually has 0 Player Kills :D . When he is on a ship to 'escape'...he is there to avoid people. However, I can see why admins would not want people to hide there.
    Added in this edit:
    Edit: Infamy can be taken into account for this, too. Then it solves the "no safe zone from consequences" which seems to be the only thing that people are in favour of with the prism change.

    If you're just hanging out on a ship to hang out, then you're not hiding from any consequences or trouble you've started. You're minding your own damn business, and that isn't a crime and should be okay. I think I prefer the idea of not being able to board for a while if you've been involved in adventurer conflict, though.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Reiloch said:
    I honestly can't fathom why these changes have had such a negative reaction from so many people. These all seem like overwhelmingly positive tweaks to me. What are all these 'functionalities' that people are losing? Because the only thing I can see is that ships stop being a safe place to isolate yourself from the world, which I don't really think there should be a place for in the game anyways. :confused:
    Not everyone plays to be a social character, and even admins have recognized this. You can come here to be a social butterfly. You can sail all by yourself for hours on end or hunt by yourself and never speak to a single person, and it's fine. Nothing in the game says we HAVE to make ourselves available to everyone else every single second we're logged in.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    I cant believe you guys reverted the changes so quickly. Having a 100% safe room in this game is the dumbest thing in the world. If you want to be safe then journal or qq.
    image
  • SarapisSarapis
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    I can see the good and bad of both of these changes. I mean, a ship should not be a portal to hunting grounds and neither should it be a place where you can escape from the world.
    But why not? If I'm in a mood where I want to be here and work on things in a solitary manner or whatever, then I should be allowed to. No one should be forced into a position where they have to potentially interact and deal with others 100% of the time without having to qq.
    This. Name me a single successful MMO with no safe zone. I can't think of one.
    I'm not expressing an opinion one way or another here, but Eve Online is the only one I can think of in the West. It's quite likely there are Korean or Chinese MMOs with no safe zones, but they're a very different audience.
  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    Sarapis said:
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    I can see the good and bad of both of these changes. I mean, a ship should not be a portal to hunting grounds and neither should it be a place where you can escape from the world.
    But why not? If I'm in a mood where I want to be here and work on things in a solitary manner or whatever, then I should be allowed to. No one should be forced into a position where they have to potentially interact and deal with others 100% of the time without having to qq.
    This. Name me a single successful MMO with no safe zone. I can't think of one.
    I'm not expressing an opinion one way or another here, but Eve Online is the only one I can think of in the West. It's quite likely there are Korean or Chinese MMOs with no safe zones, but they're a very different audience.
    World of Warcraft? Your city isn't even safe as the other side can easily raid. In fact, there are achievements for killing the leaders of the enemy cities.
    image
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Sarapis said:
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    I can see the good and bad of both of these changes. I mean, a ship should not be a portal to hunting grounds and neither should it be a place where you can escape from the world.
    But why not? If I'm in a mood where I want to be here and work on things in a solitary manner or whatever, then I should be allowed to. No one should be forced into a position where they have to potentially interact and deal with others 100% of the time without having to qq.
    This. Name me a single successful MMO with no safe zone. I can't think of one.
    I'm not expressing an opinion one way or another here, but Eve Online is the only one I can think of in the West. It's quite likely there are Korean or Chinese MMOs with no safe zones, but they're a very different audience.
    Havens in Aetolia seemed pretty safe? Unless those got nerfed.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    edited November 2015
    Kayeil, you are a full 1/3 of this thread. Take a breath.

    Shipreturn and ships as saferooms were both being used in ways I think was pretty unintended. The fixes for that were pretty heavy-handed, I can't say I'm sad to see the revert, but I hope they do come up with something of a middle ground to both discourage ships-as-portals and ships-as-impenetrable-fortresses without making life unbearable.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!
    Kellonius said:
    Sarapis said:
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    <snip>
    World of Warcraft? Your city isn't even safe as the other side can easily raid. In fact, there are achievements for killing the leaders of the enemy cities.
    WoW's pvp servers allow you to turn your pvp flag off inside a zone your faction controls - so even if the alliance would raid Orgrimmar and you were conveniently there at the time, if you haven't just left a battleground (engaged in pvp), you can have your pvp flag off and they won't be able to harm you unless you harm them first
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    I'm reading these comments and I'm having trouble coming up with reasons that justify why a ship should be 100% safe.

    -There is no easy way for someone who wants to kill you to determine where your ship is from far away.
    -If your ship is in your home city and there are guard placements in the harbour, the potential prismer will be killed while try to break in.
    -If there is a huge raid that is taking out a guard stack on a harbour, you probably shouldn't be hiding on your ship anyway.
    (If you can't see what I'm getting at, basically it should be up to your city to determine how safe their harbours are)
    -You'll see the prism and have time to move/disembark/whatever
    -If you want to afk and be in primarily safe spot, do it on a guard stack.
    -If you have work to be doing, there is a plethora of rooms that already exist with locked doors and totems and so on.
    -If you have to leave your computer, journal?

    Really there is no reason why a ship room should be 100% safe where all of these other safety measures exist.
    image
  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Aerek said:
    Kayeil, you are a full 1/3 of this thread. Take a breath.

    Shipreturn and ships as saferooms were both being used in ways I think was pretty unintended. The fixes for that were pretty heavy-handed, I can't say I'm sad to see the revert, but I hope they do come up with something of a middle ground to both discourage ships-as-portals and ships-as-impenetrable-fortresses without making life unbearable.
     
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    Tharvis said:
    Kellonius said:
    Sarapis said:
    Sanaki said:
    Kayeil said:
    Razzlo said:
    <snip>
    World of Warcraft? Your city isn't even safe as the other side can easily raid. In fact, there are achievements for killing the leaders of the enemy cities.
    WoW's pvp servers allow you to turn your pvp flag off inside a zone your faction controls - so even if the alliance would raid Orgrimmar and you were conveniently there at the time, if you haven't just left a battleground (engaged in pvp), you can have your pvp flag off and they won't be able to harm you unless you harm them first
    Its been a while since I've played. Is this a new feature? I never knew about it if its not. :(
    image
  • ValkynValkyn
    @Kellonius you talk as if you think most cities have harbours... only Ashtan and Targossas do.

  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    Valkyn said:
    @Kellonius you talk as if you think most cities have harbours... only Ashtan and Targossas do.
    Mhaldor and Cyrene don't have harbours? Oh right, they do, but the harbours aren't technically attached to the city. Hashan too with Tasur'ke. I suppose that does throw a wrench into the system. Would it be more acceptable to you if every city had a harbour?
    image
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!
    Kellonius said:
    Valkyn said:
    @Kellonius you talk as if you think most cities have harbours... only Ashtan and Targossas do.
    Mhaldor and Cyrene don't have harbours? Oh right, they do, but the harbours aren't technically attached to the city. Hashan too with Tasur'ke. I suppose that does throw a wrench into the system. Would it be more acceptable to you if every city had a harbour?
    You forget Eleusis, how are you going to connect them to a harbour?
    Without having them cut open the forest to make a channel from their village to the ocean, that is
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • ValkynValkyn
    Kellonius said:
    Valkyn said:
    @Kellonius you talk as if you think most cities have harbours... only Ashtan and Targossas do.
    Mhaldor and Cyrene don't have harbours? Oh right, they do, but the harbours aren't technically attached to the city. Hashan too with Tasur'ke. I suppose that does throw a wrench into the system. Would it be more acceptable to you if every city had a harbour?
    It would be less awful, but I don't think it's a good idea. It would just encourage people to park up at those harbours and fill them.

  • ReilochReiloch
    Valkyn said:
    Reiloch said:
    I honestly can't fathom why these changes have had such a negative reaction from so many people. These all seem like overwhelmingly positive tweaks to me. What are all these 'functionalities' that people are losing? Because the only thing I can see is that ships stop being a safe place to isolate yourself from the world, which I don't really think there should be a place for in the game anyways. :confused:
    Students, people with kids, people who work from home or who take work home with them, hell bathroom or food breaks, disconnection. There are any number of people who might be playing Achaea while multi tasking something else at any moment, or who need to be able to look away to check something. Achaea requires a huge time investment to really get anywhere. Life is distracting, we don't play Achaea in a void with perfect internet.
    Yeah, that's a fair point. I honestly frequently forget that most classes don't have an equivalent of Xenophage to help them run back to the safety of a guard stack at a moment's notice from anywhere.
  • RazzloRazzlo
    Hmm. I don't think one has to be 100 percent safe to be able to be quasi social on the game. For the most part, people don't come around to kill your ass. Razzlo has only ever had one person gunning to kill him. The only people who really instigate conflict with people who are not actively seeking people out are thieves, raiders, and pirates. I admit I dislike the idea of people coming into a space that you paid a lot for, but ships are the only places safe like this. I think there should be skills or upgrades beyond swashies and monoliths and such to make these places you paid for safer, but I don't think any place should be 100 percent safe. Even beds can get worked around if someone is using them for shitty purposes. 

    I am wholly for making ships as close as possible to 100 safe, but no place should be in my opinion. I can concede why you would want that though. 

    Maybe be make a ship scaling skill where you have to throw a hook up on a ship and it takes like a minute to climb on while your shipmates tell out a warning to you. 


  • LucineLucine Utah
    Tharvis said:
    Kellonius said:
    Valkyn said:
    @Kellonius you talk as if you think most cities have harbours... only Ashtan and Targossas do.
    Mhaldor and Cyrene don't have harbours? Oh right, they do, but the harbours aren't technically attached to the city. Hashan too with Tasur'ke. I suppose that does throw a wrench into the system. Would it be more acceptable to you if every city had a harbour?
    You forget Eleusis, how are you going to connect them to a harbour?
    Without having them cut open the forest to make a channel from their village to the ocean, that is
    I want to see this happen just to watch the freak out. 
  • ExelethrilExelethril
    Ships are quite fine as they are now, I personally don't see the problem of providing a safe area for people to linger in, if they don't want to interact with other people.

    Relevant :



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  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    Lucine said:
    Tharvis said:
    Kellonius said:
    Valkyn said:
    @Kellonius you talk as if you think most cities have harbours... only Ashtan and Targossas do.
    Mhaldor and Cyrene don't have harbours? Oh right, they do, but the harbours aren't technically attached to the city. Hashan too with Tasur'ke. I suppose that does throw a wrench into the system. Would it be more acceptable to you if every city had a harbour?
    You forget Eleusis, how are you going to connect them to a harbour?
    Without having them cut open the forest to make a channel from their village to the ocean, that is
    I want to see this happen just to watch the freak out. 
    Nah, Eleusis and wooden boats makes 0 sense anyway.
    image
This discussion has been closed.