Family Names/RP - continued from derailment in Dais thread

Alrena

Um, I was referring to Trevize's idea. As quoted below, said idea would still not include any measure of control, which is also something Sarapis said isn't going to happen. I'm keeping up just fine, thank you!

Trevize said:

Sarapis said:

Melodie said:

There might be tears, but it would also give certain (re: well-known) family names an actual importance instead of just a title. If you just want a surname without doing any of the work of being in a family, then just make your own.

But the only thing required to have a surname is to have it. That's it. There's no work required. 

Once you have a surname, it's yours as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see any justification for letting another player take it away from you once you've removed yourself from their power (ie by leaving any organization that might demand you change it). 

To be clear, I don't foresee my proposal preventing others from wearing the surname. This is entirely separate from blood relation/surnames. The addition of being able to add the surname in the clan is merely a convenience, and I imagine it to be a convenient version of 'suffix <family name>' one can to do oneself.

It does permit validation in the 'she calls herself Moonflair, but the family does not acknowledge her' RP. Not the extent of permissible PK, I might add.

Krypton

It's interesting to me how some long-established Achaean families have deviated from, or lost, their originally, strongly held city associations. Even already by the time some of these surnames were selected to represent each city in the Newbie Intro.

Like these are my opinions of how correlated each of these families are to the city their represented denizen shows up in:

Ashtan
de Vermiis - yes, thanks to Servelan, Maim, occultists
Lucoster - yes, because I only think of Erhon

Cyrene
Azon - no, for some reason or another, I think of Targossas/the Elysians
Xanatov - yes (hi, @Kitt)

Eleusis
Longshanks - yes
Stormcrow - I see this comes from Covenant and Landon, but knowing Solar the best, and being an oldbie, this will always harken back to Shallam for me 

Hashan
Lokelinde - yes, because of Elentari
Rousseau - yes, because I only think of Bambi LOL

Mhaldor
Aristata -
Lichlord - yes, I don't think the association of these two names with Mhaldor will ever weaken, in spite of any "emigration"

Targossas
Lighthawk - no, more Eleusis
Sa'Rithven - we were stalwartly associated with Shallam -- now, not so much anywhere...

Kayeil

I believe Azons was established by Skarash and Enoc? So that'd put it as Ashtani, too.

Siduri

Currently, the most Targossian names are:
Shu'in
Wintermourne
Azagnanna
Bayt-al-Azhan
al-Ashtad

Kyrra

Siduri said:

Currently, the most Targossian names are:
Shu'in
Wintermourne
Azagnanna
Bayt-al-Azhan
al-Ashtad

I'd consider Obuun on the list, and potentially Crescent as well though not as prominent.

Siduri

Obuun yes. Crescent is included in Shu'in.

Kiet

Austere said:

Saeva said:

Sarapis said:

Saeva said:

also there is already a cool kids club, it's called TMC. I hear it's a great place.

So good I was about five seconds away from summarily deleting it today!

You so should have. It's a cesspool.

TMC has a tendency to get out of hand, but I have also seen it used for very good purposes. It's an excellent ooc way of telling another faction you're not having fun.  Without it, people would have to send tells to raiders, and the assumption that someone already has and the lack of a playerbase to look down on people for competely disregarding others enjoyment would result in a lot more lame raids, I think.  Just my two cents for today.  If you delete it, I won't cry. 

Clans like Warriors do this just fine, and Warriors is pretty tame beyond 'omg that's so OP.' I don't know what TMC is like at all so I'm not taking a side, but this isn't the best justification for keeping a clan.

Siduri said:

Currently, the most Targossian names are:
Shu'in
Wintermourne
Azagnanna
Bayt-al-Azhan
al-Ashtad

The fact that the surname started by Profit is on the most Targossian names is a little absurd to be honest. Not that I care that much in the end (and I doubt he would either), but for at least a RL year or so the only Bayt al-Azhans were Profit Kupo and Kiet, none of which were very beloved by Shallam!

Trey

Kiet said:

Austere said:

Saeva said:

Sarapis said:

Saeva said:

also there is already a cool kids club, it's called TMC. I hear it's a great place.

So good I was about five seconds away from summarily deleting it today!

You so should have. It's a cesspool.

TMC has a tendency to get out of hand, but I have also seen it used for very good purposes. It's an excellent ooc way of telling another faction you're not having fun.  Without it, people would have to send tells to raiders, and the assumption that someone already has and the lack of a playerbase to look down on people for competely disregarding others enjoyment would result in a lot more lame raids, I think.  Just my two cents for today.  If you delete it, I won't cry. 

Clans like Warriors do this just fine, and Warriors is pretty tame beyond 'omg that's so OP.' I don't know what TMC is like at all so I'm not taking a side, but this isn't the best justification for keeping a clan.

Siduri said:

Currently, the most Targossian names are:
Shu'in
Wintermourne
Azagnanna
Bayt-al-Azhan
al-Ashtad

The fact that the surname started by Profit is on the most Targossian names is a little absurd to be honest. Not that I care that much in the end (and I doubt he would either), but for at least a RL year or so the only Bayt al-Azhans were Profit Kupo and Kiet, none of which were very beloved by Shallam!

You have Micaelis to thank for that one, I think.

Siduri

Yeah, Micaelis is the one currently passing the name around, through marriage and parenting. I'm only speaking demographics here, though! (Also Shallam is not pertinent)

Kiet

Yeah I figured, no one else from the original two generations ever even went near Targossas.

Austere

Kiet said:

Austere said:

Saeva said:

Sarapis said:

Saeva said:

also there is already a cool kids club, it's called TMC. I hear it's a great place.

So good I was about five seconds away from summarily deleting it today!

You so should have. It's a cesspool.

TMC has a tendency to get out of hand, but I have also seen it used for very good purposes. It's an excellent ooc way of telling another faction you're not having fun.  Without it, people would have to send tells to raiders, and the assumption that someone already has and the lack of a playerbase to look down on people for competely disregarding others enjoyment would result in a lot more lame raids, I think.  Just my two cents for today.  If you delete it, I won't cry. 

Clans like Warriors do this just fine, and Warriors is pretty tame beyond 'omg that's so OP.' I don't know what TMC is like at all so I'm not taking a side, but this isn't the best justification for keeping a clan.

I guess I am not cool enough to be in Warriors.  Austere's obviously a pacifist.

Kiet

Austere said:

Kiet said:

Austere said:

Saeva said:

Sarapis said:

Saeva said:

also there is already a cool kids club, it's called TMC. I hear it's a great place.

So good I was about five seconds away from summarily deleting it today!

You so should have. It's a cesspool.

TMC has a tendency to get out of hand, but I have also seen it used for very good purposes. It's an excellent ooc way of telling another faction you're not having fun.  Without it, people would have to send tells to raiders, and the assumption that someone already has and the lack of a playerbase to look down on people for competely disregarding others enjoyment would result in a lot more lame raids, I think.  Just my two cents for today.  If you delete it, I won't cry. 

Clans like Warriors do this just fine, and Warriors is pretty tame beyond 'omg that's so OP.' I don't know what TMC is like at all so I'm not taking a side, but this isn't the best justification for keeping a clan.

I guess I am not cool enough to be in Warriors.  Austere's obviously a pacifist.

The point was that there's plenty of clans that can serve that purpose that aren't apparently horrible, not that everyone should be in Warriors or that only cool people are in it or whatever

Alcaro

new question:
what would someone have to do to become a part of your family / bloodline? because ngl i'm tired of being an orphan yo

Kiet

Alcaro said:

new question:
what would someone have to do to become a part of your family / bloodline? because ngl i'm tired of being an orphan yo

For most people, anyone that they hang out a lot with that's suitably younger and not yet bloodlined is probably a good candidate.

Aodfionn

Lighthawk and Sa'rithven for team Good. What is this, 2004?

Austere

Kiet said:

Austere said:

Kiet said:

Clans like Warriors do this just fine, and Warriors is pretty tame beyond 'omg that's so OP.' I don't know what TMC is like at all so I'm not taking a side, but this isn't the best justification for keeping a clan.

I guess I am not cool enough to be in Warriors.  Austere's obviously a pacifist.

The point was that there's plenty of clans that can serve that purpose that aren't apparently horrible, not that everyone should be in Warriors or that only cool people are in it or whatever

Down quoted for mobile users:

There are plenty of clans that could serve the purpose. My point is that I initiate (probably) more combat for Good than any other person.  TMC is the only clan that I share with combatants from every side, and thus the only communication outlet that is automatically ooc that I have access to.  TMC has a purpose for me, or I would not be in it.  If you guys want to start inviting all conflict initiators and start using warriors to that purpose, I am fine with killing off TMC. Until that happens, I do not support it. I would rather get one clan tell saying that we are being lame versus fifty personal tells(or none because it's assumed someone already sent it).

Aesi

Austere said:

Kiet said:

Austere said:

Kiet said:

Clans like Warriors do this just fine, and Warriors is pretty tame beyond 'omg that's so OP.' I don't know what TMC is like at all so I'm not taking a side, but this isn't the best justification for keeping a clan.

I guess I am not cool enough to be in Warriors.  Austere's obviously a pacifist.

The point was that there's plenty of clans that can serve that purpose that aren't apparently horrible, not that everyone should be in Warriors or that only cool people are in it or whatever

Down quoted for mobile users:

There are plenty of clans that could serve the purpose. My point is that I initiate (probably) more combat for Good than any other person.  TMC is the only clan that I share with combatants from every side, and thus the only communication outlet that is automatically ooc that I have access to.  TMC has a purpose for me, or I would not be in it.  If you guys want to start inviting all conflict initiators and start using warriors to that purpose, I am fine with killing off TMC. Until that happens, I do not support it. I would rather get one clan tell saying that we are being lame versus fifty personal tells(or none because it's assumed someone already sent it).

@Austere, you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LAME.

I mean what, with your fair play, and considering other people's feelings

GOD

Aepas

Some family RP is made up by those who fall under a certain house. (This is mostly Mhaldorian culture.)
Some involve blood lining anything that moves ASAP. (Xanatovs)

Sometimes being a bastard is your only namesake (Xasai)

Sometimes you make something new of your family name (Wintermourne)
And sometimes you ignore everything you stood for because a god says you should (Also wintermourne)

Nobody should remove the blood from which you came, but you should be allowed to have your surname ripped from your head, or perhaps your head ripped from your shoulders. It's always annoying to see people sit there and special snowflake themselves because they are (evil city surname) but not evil.

Denouncing what your name stands for is an act of history. You should always be the person you came from. Did you struggle out of the city of (good evil chaos) to be something else?
Good!
But don't say
hur I am a (specific evil/good/chaos) family member. Except not (evil/good/chaos) because I feel like it!

not only are you demeaning what those people are working for Icly, you're just pretty unoriginal.

Aodfionn

Wintermourne stood for service to Keresis. When the city they were a part of played a role in the murder of their Goddess/What They Stood For, they quite reasonably bailed and found something else to stand for. You really can't try to compare the random offbrand Dracrotalus or Aristata to the WMs until Sartan winds up getting deleted and every single Aristata decides to move to the same new faction.

Aepas

Aodfionn said:

Wintermourne stood for service to Keresis. When the city they were a part of played a role in the murder of their Goddess/What They Stood For, they quite reasonably bailed and found something else to stand for. You really can't try to compare the random offbrand Dracrotalus or Aristata to the WMs until Sartan winds up getting deleted and every single Aristata decides to move to the same new faction.

I like that except for the whole two people who literally bailed and the rest just changed their names back to mhaldorian names

Krypton

Aodfionn said:

Lighthawk and Sa'rithven for team Good. What is this, 2004?

Could be worse. They could've chose Weltsdown, or... Snowhunter. *shudder*

Trevize

To answer a few comments above about surnames (I am so terrible at this quoting thing), my proposal is to create a strong identity for family-style organisation as a -replacement- for being able to control titles.

With the features mentioned, I believe it would serve the purpose people are seeking without providing the control the administration wishes not to grant 'families.'

Yes, a clan can do some of this, but it is tenuous at best (and can often be lost if a few go dormant) and people do not regard them as authoritative due to the general dilution of clans.

I have no personal interest, but I would like to see it as it would provide a lovely touch to the atmosphere.

Valkyn

@Kondor, I don't know if someone has pointed this out already because I can't be bothered reading this entire thread, but I've seen several people imply otherwise so to be clear:

Aristata is not a bloodline. It is in no way, shape or form inheritable. Lichlord is an example of a Mhaldorian name which people can get by blood (and being Mhaldorian, but after that just on the merit of being blood) or by being inducted and proving themselves, Aristata is by trial only, it's kind of like a mini, more personal house rather than a traditional family. Even the clan head's children did not get it by default, but had to earn their way in if they wanted it.

Aiseiri is Arador (clan head's) daughter, but didn't 'earn' the right to wear the name till she was in her late 30's, maybe 40's.

If you want to RP what you want, do it, just know the facts.

Your situation is basically a half step away from 'Oh hey, that guy has a cool surname. I think I'll found my own, completely unrelated family with the exact same name!' (which I can understand that people would be disgruntled with)

Shirszae

You guys harp on it like the forums were IC or something. Also, as an unrelated note, while I am not familiar at all with his or anyone's situation that might bear Aristata or whatever other name you people are making a fuss about, you do have to keep in mind that at some point, someone might have failed to mention to their offspring that the name was not supposed to be inheritable (or even right-out gave them permission to wear it)

You guys might not approve of that scenario, but it would nonetheless be different from someone who is just trying to be all snowflake-y, no matter how much you people might want to insist on that

Saeva

Shirszae said:

You guys harp on it like the forums were IC or something. Also, as an unrelated note, while I am not familiar at all with his or anyone's situation that might bear Aristata or whatever other name you people are making a fuss about, you do have to keep in mind that at some point, someone might have failed to mention to their offspring that the name was not supposed to be inheritable (or even right-out gave them permission to wear it)

You guys might not approve of that scenario, but it would nonetheless be different from someone who is just trying to be all snowflake-y, no matter how much you people might want to insist on that

Well, now they have been told.

Anedhel

Forumjustice best justice!

Aepas

Shirszae said:

You guys harp on it like the forums were IC or something. Also, as an unrelated note, while I am not familiar at all with his or anyone's situation that might bear Aristata or whatever other name you people are making a fuss about, you do have to keep in mind that at some point, someone might have failed to mention to their offspring that the name was not supposed to be inheritable (or even right-out gave them permission to wear it)

You guys might not approve of that scenario, but it would nonetheless be different from someone who is just trying to be all snowflake-y, no matter how much you people might want to insist on that

Sometimes people just have to be told they are being wrong.

I literally just posted this in another thread, but once I RP'd that I was a druid that could shapeshift when I first made aepas
it just can't happen..
sometimes you just have to be told what is going on.

Shirszae

What I mean is more... If Shirszae's father had been an Aristata, or had gone by the name, for some reason or other, and he had bestowed the name upon her, for whatever reason that was, chances are it'd become something important for her. Something she would not want to part with because some people in Mhaldor got antsy about it. And specially so if he had no other surname she could adopt instead.

I am not sure if I am expressing myself as well as I could, but the end point I am trying to make is that for some characters it simply makes no sense to out of the blue do away with the surname they've been using all their life. A surname that for all intents and purposes might be part of their identity and have significance in relation to whoever blood-lined them or whatever.  Its all nice and pretty to say it was never meant to be a family name, and before you all harp about it once more, yes, I think we get that. But also, as some people are fond of saying, this is an evolving, breathing world, or at least meant to be one, and you can't both have that, and at the same time pretend to always have things your way.

And no, I am not trying to shit on you all. But I do think this is something you all are glossing over or just straight-out don't want to think about or don't want to see, when it is pretty valid form of roleplay.

Shirszae

Aepas said:

Shirszae said:

You guys harp on it like the forums were IC or something. Also, as an unrelated note, while I am not familiar at all with his or anyone's situation that might bear Aristata or whatever other name you people are making a fuss about, you do have to keep in mind that at some point, someone might have failed to mention to their offspring that the name was not supposed to be inheritable (or even right-out gave them permission to wear it)

You guys might not approve of that scenario, but it would nonetheless be different from someone who is just trying to be all snowflake-y, no matter how much you people might want to insist on that

Sometimes people just have to be told they are being wrong.

I literally just posted this in another thread, but once I RP'd that I was a druid that could shapeshift when I first made aepas
it just can't happen..
sometimes you just have to be told what is going on.

Sorry, but thats is a high personal opinion, and not at all comparable to shapeshifting. You can be a self-satisfied ass, but that doesnt mean you are right

Aepas

Shirszae said:

Aepas said:

Shirszae said:

You guys harp on it like the forums were IC or something. Also, as an unrelated note, while I am not familiar at all with his or anyone's situation that might bear Aristata or whatever other name you people are making a fuss about, you do have to keep in mind that at some point, someone might have failed to mention to their offspring that the name was not supposed to be inheritable (or even right-out gave them permission to wear it)

You guys might not approve of that scenario, but it would nonetheless be different from someone who is just trying to be all snowflake-y, no matter how much you people might want to insist on that

Sometimes people just have to be told they are being wrong.

I literally just posted this in another thread, but once I RP'd that I was a druid that could shapeshift when I first made aepas
it just can't happen..
sometimes you just have to be told what is going on.

Sorry, but thats is a high personal opinion, and not at all comparable to shapeshifting. You can be a self-satisfied ass, but that doesnt mean you are right

I can't tell if this just got personal or not, but if it did, let me know so I can start spewing personal insults.