I mean obviously bashing is meant to be slower than before in terms of kill speed, given the HUGELY increased xp and gold yield, but how much slower should we be reasonably expecting?
It should be exactly proportional for someone using battlerage efficiently. That's should as in our intention. We know it'll need tweaking.
How exactly does one use it efficiently? Each ability does a different amount of damage, different cost, different cooldown? Seems like a lot of math to do in order to find out how to use it efficiently
Denizens being tankier doesn't make you crit less. In fact, you're basically getting more benefit out of the same amount of crits since the higher health means less damage is wasted.
My biggest complaint is that it feels like classes with raze win out even more than they did before. With health being higher, that means that a hunter is going to have to bust down a few more shields before the denizens become goners.
With raze, one now can use their battle rage abilities, with no balance cost, after taking down a shield. It might be just me, but I think raze abilities should be given to all classes in some capacity, or shields should be reworked a bit.
Against a gnoll sentry, my Drawslash inflicted 7-8% of damage. The Leapslash ability inflicted 8-9%, the Spinslash inflicted about 23%, and an unassisted Headstrike did about 6%, would need someone to give the right affliction to test the true damage potential. Spinslash is an excellent DPS increase, Leapslash a little lackluster considering the rage it uses could be better used for other things, but that's understandable considering it's the first ability.
I'm more interested in exact numbers rather than percentages. Percentages are still useful, though.
I'm also curious about whether or not battlerage attacks are affected by anything (str/int, weapon stats, blademaster bands, stance, collar, knuckles, etc.).
Based on falcon health, denizens have 3x more hp than previous.
Also Runewarden abilities are....okay. I get it. I'm the tank. I'd like something with an affliction instead of Etch though. I've already got two damage abilities. I don't need another one that is awful without a group.
I really appreciate that priest didn't get healing abilities. I expected us to when I was reading the news post on my phone, and was pleasantly surprised.
Testing on Golem, squeeze did 437 damage, Firefall without the affliction to maximize damage, did 327, Windlash has an initial damage of 604, then does 12 damage every second for 8 seconds Stormbolt gives sensitivity which s supposed to be a 33% damage increase. And dilation does no damage.
Also, I enjoy that I can stack it all at once as a finisher. So stormbolt|squeeze|firefall|windlash all at once, which does...1,258 damage on my golem. Seems like it should have done a bit more. Hm... it appears stormbolt isn't affecting golem, unless it's because I strung it all together with a command separator. I tried all three with and without stormbolt and got only 1,258 damage. And firefall does more with clumsiness or recklessness.
*sigh* Please stop them shielding so often... I can't get my breath back to blast them fast enough and they're shielded again, and then I lose rage because I was waiting for the breath to come back and it's starting to vex me (or make me rage, you pick) Also, should psidazed denizens even be shielding? They forget everything except how to touch a tattoo?
The ab files don't all make this super clear, but most (all?) classes have one battlerage ability that gives an affliction. Each of them does something and each of the classes also gets a battlerage ability that only does significant damage if the target has one of two possible afflictions (and never afflictions that you yourself can give - that damage ability is clearly intended for group bashing). HELP BATTLERAGE has a list of all the afflictions and what effect they have.
Re shield breaks: Now that the "shield phase" of a fight can be so much longer than it was before, I feel like every class that didn't have a shield break should probably have gotten one. Shaman even got an affliction to make it so they can't touch shield for a while, which is a huge improvement, but given the cooldown on it and how long it takes to kill things, it seems like it's frequently going to be back to the old "wait until they attack so their shield drops" game, which is particularly ugly when battlerage can potentially fade since you aren't hitting with your bashing attack.
Can we just... Reduce the threshold that mobs shield at to like 10% now, instead of 20?
That's my only grievance with the new system, really. Especially on mobs like Rhuzios and such (I get not everyone and their mothers can kill him, but just an example) - Rohash even, those types attack so fast it's just plan irritating to fight them with their increased health pools, when they shield at that much hp.
The ab files don't all make this super clear, but most (all?) classes have one battlerage ability that gives an affliction
Each class (and dragon colour) has two different affliction abilities, except for knights which have two special defensive abilities (one for themselves and one for an ally) instead of afflictions.
My one complaint (other than the minor shield annoyance) is that it's kind of unfortunate how this makes bashing with certain class combinations significantly better than others.
Tael is a shaman and I got together to go bashing with a blademaster and a jester and, while initially really excited that we finally have a reason to group for bashing (which the two of them have pestered me about doing forever), we were pretty seriously disappointed to discover that despite having six affliction abilities between us, only one of us got to do our cool special group ability. You still got the benefit of one another's afflictions, so it's definitely still advantageous, but it feels awfully disappointing to watch your friend do their extra-nifty group thing without being able to do your own.
And, if the benefit of grouping remains relatively high (And it should! Group bashing should be the new norm!), I'm a little worried that I'm going to start seeing "LFG Magi or Jester only please".
Alright so far... Im warming up to the new system a bit more. Still too soon to tell, with double experience and the greathunt hunting rage going on but...
1.) Denizen shielding and the new abilities are not. The fights already take long enough, and now at the last %10-20 being held out even longer.
2.) Rage decay is too fast, especially when it comes to the newly created denizen-adventurer shielding battles.
Both have been stated above, but that is my main complains atm!
I do like the changes, @Sarapis@Tecton, so thanks! But interested to see how they are tweaked
I laughed as soon as I saw it right after your post. So far it looks neat as a whole system, but.. I'll have to wait to dig in. I'm working all day tomorrow and spending some time with a passing patient, but.. I'll be testing soon.
Question to find out if it's intentional but... The battlerage attacks, if they hit into shields, dramatically increase your EQ recovery when combo'd with ordinary attacks... This isn't an oversight, is it? Thiev and I have both constantly been off EQ for 15-20+ seconds, due shields coming up right as we hit, and the attacks/battlerage attacks smacking into them... This seems uhh... Quite horrid of a change if it is...
Example scenario is generally like... <mob shields> ->Thornrend into shield -->Deluge into shield ... ... ... You have recovered equilibrium. (About 10-12 seconds after, instead of the 2-3 it usually takes) - Seems like it's even longer if it's an attack that uses more rage...
My one complaint (other than the minor shield annoyance) is that it's kind of unfortunate how this makes bashing with certain class combinations significantly better than others.
Tael is a shaman and I got together to go bashing with a blademaster and a jester and, while initially really excited that we finally have a reason to group for bashing (which the two of them have pestered me about doing forever), we were pretty seriously disappointed to discover that despite having six affliction abilities between us, only one of us got to do our cool special group ability. You still got the benefit of one another's afflictions, so it's definitely still advantageous, but it feels awfully disappointing to watch your friend do their extra-nifty group thing without being able to do your own.
And, if the benefit of grouping remains relatively high (And it should! Group bashing should be the new norm!), I'm a little worried that I'm going to start seeing "LFG Magi or Jester only please".
This will probably be alleviated with multi-classing. You group up and go "Oh, hey! You're a _____, let me go ______ so we can work with each other, or let me dragon up, as ____ dragon goes with your class." It's going to be super cool.
Comments
With raze, one now can use their battle rage abilities, with no balance cost, after taking down a shield. It might be just me, but I think raze abilities should be given to all classes in some capacity, or shields should be reworked a bit.
Against a gnoll sentry, my Drawslash inflicted 7-8% of damage. The Leapslash ability inflicted 8-9%, the Spinslash inflicted about 23%, and an unassisted Headstrike did about 6%, would need someone to give the right affliction to test the true damage potential. Spinslash is an excellent DPS increase, Leapslash a little lackluster considering the rage it uses could be better used for other things, but that's understandable considering it's the first ability.
Sanya stance, unbanded sword, 13 strength, Nimble.
I'm also curious about whether or not battlerage attacks are affected by anything (str/int, weapon stats, blademaster bands, stance, collar, knuckles, etc.).
Also Runewarden abilities are....okay. I get it. I'm the tank. I'd like something with an affliction instead of Etch though. I've already got two damage abilities. I don't need another one that is awful without a group.
*edit: Yes, fear didn't seem to work. ???
Also, I enjoy that I can stack it all at once as a finisher. So stormbolt|squeeze|firefall|windlash all at once, which does...1,258 damage on my golem. Seems like it should have done a bit more. Hm... it appears stormbolt isn't affecting golem, unless it's because I strung it all together with a command separator. I tried all three with and without stormbolt and got only 1,258 damage. And firefall does more with clumsiness or recklessness.
Please stop them shielding so often... I can't get my breath back to blast them fast enough and they're shielded again, and then I lose rage because I was waiting for the breath to come back and it's starting to vex me (or make me rage, you pick)
Also, should psidazed denizens even be shielding? They forget everything except how to touch a tattoo?
Edited to show gold dragon skills
Re shield breaks: Now that the "shield phase" of a fight can be so much longer than it was before, I feel like every class that didn't have a shield break should probably have gotten one. Shaman even got an affliction to make it so they can't touch shield for a while, which is a huge improvement, but given the cooldown on it and how long it takes to kill things, it seems like it's frequently going to be back to the old "wait until they attack so their shield drops" game, which is particularly ugly when battlerage can potentially fade since you aren't hitting with your bashing attack.
I've never been a hunter, or had an inclination to really hunt at all. Just not my thing, was too boring and meh.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/b1a5ae5d
I now will hunt. @Sarapis @Tecton +10
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
That's my only grievance with the new system, really. Especially on mobs like Rhuzios and such (I get not everyone and their mothers can kill him, but just an example) - Rohash even, those types attack so fast it's just plan irritating to fight them with their increased health pools, when they shield at that much hp.
I will definitely be making some sort of GUI for this, similar to Zulah's, like a hotspell toolbar or something.
The rage bit is too quick to decay in my opinion, but overall it's a good addition for me
List of what classes complement each class: http://pastebin.com/WWpZ3Dkz
Monk is the only class that synergises with itself, so only monks can take advantage of the damage bonus without a group.
Silver dragons seem to be the only ones without an ability that benefits from afflictions, but it may just be that the AB files don't mention it.
DOES THIS MEAN WE CAN AFFLICT AND DO EXTRA ACCENTATO DAMAGE NOW? PLEASE YES?
EDIT: @SARAPIS PLOX
Tael is a shaman and I got together to go bashing with a blademaster and a jester and, while initially really excited that we finally have a reason to group for bashing (which the two of them have pestered me about doing forever), we were pretty seriously disappointed to discover that despite having six affliction abilities between us, only one of us got to do our cool special group ability. You still got the benefit of one another's afflictions, so it's definitely still advantageous, but it feels awfully disappointing to watch your friend do their extra-nifty group thing without being able to do your own.
And, if the benefit of grouping remains relatively high (And it should! Group bashing should be the new norm!), I'm a little worried that I'm going to start seeing "LFG Magi or Jester only please".
1.) Denizen shielding and the new abilities are not. The fights already take long enough, and now at the last %10-20 being held out even longer.
2.) Rage decay is too fast, especially when it comes to the newly created denizen-adventurer shielding battles.
Both have been stated above, but that is my main complains atm!
I do like the changes, @Sarapis @Tecton, so thanks! But interested to see how they are tweaked
Question to find out if it's intentional but... The battlerage attacks, if they hit into shields, dramatically increase your EQ recovery when combo'd with ordinary attacks... This isn't an oversight, is it? Thiev and I have both constantly been off EQ for 15-20+ seconds, due shields coming up right as we hit, and the attacks/battlerage attacks smacking into them... This seems uhh... Quite horrid of a change if it is...
Example scenario is generally like...
<mob shields>
->Thornrend into shield
-->Deluge into shield
...
...
...
You have recovered equilibrium. (About 10-12 seconds after, instead of the 2-3 it usually takes) - Seems like it's even longer if it's an attack that uses more rage...