Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Lowering the Barriers to Group PvP

1678911

Comments

  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Did I somehow miss Tecton chiming in on this thread? 

    @Nim you've been an absolute delight to discuss this topic with, even if you want to now dump on everyone who participated in the conversation because you're frustrated you couldn't get buy-in for your propositions. 
  • TarausTaraus The Gypsy WindMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 889 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mathonwy said:
    I'd be okay with a 'rankings kills' elo-based system

    He has achieved "A New World Record" of lethality.

    ????

    Syri
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It was his response in the Ask the Producer thing, can find it later if you'd like, and I'm grumpy over logical fallacies and casual insults. Strawmen arguments, ad hominem, false dilemma, now ad nauseam, and a bunch others I'd have to look up.
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean




          
    KasaTharvisSyri
  • SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Herenicus is an ass hat. The only reason he thinks xp-loss is broken is because he is terrible at the game and dies like a noob. The only thing he's done here is whine about xp loss. Xp loss is fine. 

    image

    Herenicus
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can confirm. Santar knows I am an ass hat because he is one. He is kind and generous with his opinions. 
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    The biggest conflict of interest hasn't been discussed much, and that is that the people closest to the top of the PK heap also hate bashing, and much prefer it if they can rely on getting and/or recouping a goodly chunk of their XP through others.  That said, some of the people who are all too happy to give their bashing away to others probably don't realize that being in a Right to Bash state might not be in their interest.  Anyway, who's more "entitled" again? 

  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Jules said:

    The biggest conflict of interest hasn't been discussed much, and that is that the people closest to the top of the PK heap also hate bashing... 

    Isn't Seragorn currently at the top of the combat rankings and a Mark? Or did you have somebody in particular that you were thinking of?
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    No, I don't have a particular person in mind, but XP "lost" through PK is not actually lost - although as I mentioned, it's possible that some portion of it is truly lost.  Overall though, a PvP death just transfers XP, and all XP in Achaea is currently generated from PvE.  So PvP can only transfer PvE XP (and possibly destroy some of it), meaning that if you're someone who can get a net gain in the grand scheme of how your raids and skirmishes and duels play out, you're ahead, and get to cut down on your own bashing.  Maybe even a good chunk ahead if you're quite good and part of a dominant organization.  

  • NizanaNizana Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I saw a note and just wanted to toss this in, Level 81, a death = 4-5% xp. It's not devastatingly massive. Pre-80 loss was around 15%, though, so there is that.

    Also, question. Sanctioned Raid = no XP loss for defenders? If so, then while we argue, we can use that for breaking people into the group pvp scene.

    Also, an old character I had, she was in Mhaldor. Mhaldor hosted team skirmishes in the arena for people interested in combat (was semi-mandatory) and it was fun and neat. That's one way to lower the barrier, showing lowbies how they can assist in defensive combat and such (when I was with Mhaldor, they had me spam-web. That was my job. I did it well)

    If anyone wants to be solid at 1v1 PvP, they definitely need to invest a lot of time into it. If they want to be an aggressor, they should be prepared to lose something for doing it. If they want to join group pvp, as this post seems to suggest is the main point, the above might help.

    Jovolo
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,163 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Did someone say they lose 1/5 of a level if they die at level 80? Wut?
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,163 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Jules not all XP is generated from PvE, it's just one of the more boring ways of doing so 
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It might just be an urban myth, but wasn't there someone who got to dragon purely through questing?

    I still firmly believe the barrier to entry to PvP is the steep learning curve, both in actual game mechanics, and in attitude, not in some transient number of experience points.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    Did someone say they lose 1/5 of a level if they die at level 80? Wut?
    Oh. Sorry, twentieth. Five percent.
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,831 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Klendathu said:
    It might just be an urban myth, but wasn't there someone who got to dragon purely through questing?

    I still firmly believe the barrier to entry to PvP is the steep learning curve, both in actual game mechanics, and in attitude, not in some transient number of experience points.
    Pretty sure that was Bambi. 
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • MeradorMerador Member Posts: 107
    Kyrra said:
    Klendathu said:
    It might just be an urban myth, but wasn't there someone who got to dragon purely through questing?

    I still firmly believe the barrier to entry to PvP is the steep learning curve, both in actual game mechanics, and in attitude, not in some transient number of experience points.
    Pretty sure that was Bambi. 
    She's got 355k denizen kills, but 0 player kills. I think she was a pacifist for PVP not PVE.
    KyrraAedinAntidas
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,314 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Klendathu said:
    It might just be an urban myth, but wasn't there someone who got to dragon purely through questing?

    I still firmly believe the barrier to entry to PvP is the steep learning curve, both in actual game mechanics, and in attitude, not in some transient number of experience points.
    Peladoris got close. He is level 92 without a single denizen kill.

    I miss Peladoris.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    MelodieAustere
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mishgul said:
    Klendathu said:
    It might just be an urban myth, but wasn't there someone who got to dragon purely through questing?

    I still firmly believe the barrier to entry to PvP is the steep learning curve, both in actual game mechanics, and in attitude, not in some transient number of experience points.
    Peladoris got close. He is level 92 without a single denizen kill.

    I miss Peladoris.
    That is awesome. 
    Austere
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I personally like my sub-80 loop. Rarely bash, and have stayed 75-79 for nearly a year of constant PvP. It is fun fighting people 30 levels higher. Makes you feel accomplished even if it is very subjective. Not everyone is like me though I guess.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    BluefAedin
  • KitiaraKitiara Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Atalkez said:
    I personally like my sub-80 loop. Rarely bash, and have stayed 75-79 for nearly a year of constant PvP. It is fun fighting people 30 levels higher. Makes you feel accomplished even if it is very subjective. Not everyone is like me though I guess.
    That about sums up my life. I enjoy pvp however stuck in the mid 70s because if it.  :)
    "Kit always gets blood everywhere."
    Medi says, "If kit says to show up somewhere, bring an apron."
    Medi says, "Rule of thumb."

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    @Jules not all XP is generated from PvE, it's just one of the more boring ways of doing so 

    Not sure if you mean questing or what.  I'm counting questing as PvE because you're still using NPCs/the game itself for your XP gain - the bulk of PvE XP in the game is almost certainly from bashing rather than questing, but I would consider them part of the same pool. 

    The most central thing to keep in mind is that PvP as it works now doesn't create its own XP like PvE can.  It just transfers one person's PvE XP from one person to another.

    JacenHerenicus
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,163 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Uhh, why would you consider bashing the same as questing? They're completely different, you just "interact" with denizens in order to achieve that.
    Austere
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Is questing remotely as lucrative as bashing in terms of xp gain?
    image
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:
    Jovolo said:
    @Jules not all XP is generated from PvE, it's just one of the more boring ways of doing so 

    Not sure if you mean questing or what.  I'm counting questing as PvE because you're still using NPCs/the game itself for your XP gain - the bulk of PvE XP in the game is almost certainly from bashing rather than questing, but I would consider them part of the same pool. 

    The most central thing to keep in mind is that PvP as it works now doesn't create its own XP like PvE can.  It just transfers one person's PvE XP from one person to another.

    Oh, do be gentle with your sensationalist implications, Jules, lest Silas catch a case of vaypours absent his fainting couch or smelling salts.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,163 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jacen said:
    Is questing remotely as lucrative as bashing in terms of xp gain?
    No, because they're different.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Silas said:
    Rolling your eyes and wandering off in boredom is fine. You don't have to engage with other people who want to impose on your good times. I do the same nowadays, but it's not because of XP - I just have no interest in it.

    That's fine, and is a perfectly valid way to play Achaea. You have no interest in something, so you don't get involved in it.

    The entitled whiners are the ones who want to get involved but only in a way where they cannot lose anything, because they're bashing to dragon.
    We live in a city that keeps trying to inforce things such as shrine wars, essence bashing, Defending, Attacking, Arena training and such, has been for awhile.

    Except Silas is immune to all this for some odd reason. Which is pretty bad when the Dawnlord giving the speech about everyone having to put more effort into this and that then has to bring up the fact that Silas doesn't.

    Especially when the Dawnlord is handing down the word of the Divine them selfs.

    But yes everyone besides you is forced (in Targossas anyways) to defend against these people or log out basically.

  • AntidasAntidas Member Posts: 1,496 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Caladbolg said:
    Silas said:
    Rolling your eyes and wandering off in boredom is fine. You don't have to engage with other people who want to impose on your good times. I do the same nowadays, but it's not because of XP - I just have no interest in it.

    That's fine, and is a perfectly valid way to play Achaea. You have no interest in something, so you don't get involved in it.

    The entitled whiners are the ones who want to get involved but only in a way where they cannot lose anything, because they're bashing to dragon.
    We live in a city that keeps trying to inforce things such as shrine wars, essence bashing, Defending, Attacking, Arena training and such, has been for awhile.

    Except Silas is immune to all this for some odd reason. Which is pretty bad when the Dawnlord giving the speech about everyone having to put more effort into this and that then has to bring up the fact that Silas doesn't.

    Especially when the Dawnlord is handing down the word of the Divine them selfs.

    But yes everyone besides you is forced (in Targossas anyways) to defend against these people or log out basically.
    To be fair, its only enforced from an IC perspective - there are plenty of people who never defend, and those of us in leadership just conveniently "overlook" that fact because, from an OOC perspective, forcing people to do something they don't enjoy is stupid. @Kaiu is a good example of this - I guarantee she's never gotten in trouble for not participating in combat, and I honestly can't think of a single time she -has- participated. She also doesn't usually log out during raids, afaik. I see her at rally point spamming attacks on Garis during raid defenses all the time to give him kai.

    tl;dr so long as those people who chose not to participate contribute to the city in some other way, there's no issue. I'm pretty sure @Silas falls into this category.

    Tharvis
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Antidas said:
    Caladbolg said:
    Silas said:
    Rolling your eyes and wandering off in boredom is fine. You don't have to engage with other people who want to impose on your good times. I do the same nowadays, but it's not because of XP - I just have no interest in it.

    That's fine, and is a perfectly valid way to play Achaea. You have no interest in something, so you don't get involved in it.

    The entitled whiners are the ones who want to get involved but only in a way where they cannot lose anything, because they're bashing to dragon.
    We live in a city that keeps trying to inforce things such as shrine wars, essence bashing, Defending, Attacking, Arena training and such, has been for awhile.

    Except Silas is immune to all this for some odd reason. Which is pretty bad when the Dawnlord giving the speech about everyone having to put more effort into this and that then has to bring up the fact that Silas doesn't.

    Especially when the Dawnlord is handing down the word of the Divine them selfs.

    But yes everyone besides you is forced (in Targossas anyways) to defend against these people or log out basically.
    To be fair, its only enforced from an IC perspective - there are plenty of people who never defend, and those of us in leadership just conveniently "overlook" that fact because, from an OOC perspective, forcing people to do something they don't enjoy is stupid. @Kaiu is a good example of this - I guarantee she's never gotten in trouble for not participating in combat, and I honestly can't think of a single time she -has- participated. She also doesn't usually log out during raids, afaik. I see her at rally point spamming attacks on Garis during raid defenses all the time to give him kai.

    tl;dr so long as those people who chose not to participate contribute to the city in some other way, there's no issue. I'm pretty sure @Silas falls into this category.
    Well shit, someone should have told me it was just an ic thing, I'd quit doing it along time ago

  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,724 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Santar said:
    @Silas was one of the most active and involved contributors to the city when he was Dawnlord. Pretty laughable to say otherwise. 

    He bashed. He raided. He handled all politics.  He was a fore-front participator in the vast majority of everything that happened in the city.
    This is also discounting what I consider to be Shallam's finest era under the @Silas - @Rho power couple. 

Sign In to Comment.